clangerman Posted September 4, 2021 Report Share Posted September 4, 2021 the disgrace and embarrassment is ours for being the yanks idiot gopher side kick no doubt we will be part of their next disaster also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 4, 2021 Report Share Posted September 4, 2021 (edited) Quote Its very likely Afghanistan would have fallen to the taliban again, but it very likely wouldn't have been so quick. Why do think it would not have being so quick ? I think Biden is a tube but i don't see Trump would have done it any differently., Edited September 4, 2021 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 4, 2021 Report Share Posted September 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, ditchman said: been reported that there is now heavy fighting in the north of the country ........... Yeah rumours are northern resistance have blown up a section of mountain when the taliban attacked cutting off between 1k and 3k taliban fighters. 2 minutes ago, ordnance said: Why do think it would not have being so quick. I can't be bothered to type out the entire story of what biden got wrong, it'd be a much shorter list to state what he got right. If you think he did a good job that's your perogative, but you must be the only person who does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 8 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: Yeah rumours are northern resistance have blown up a section of mountain when the taliban attacked cutting off between 1k and 3k taliban fighters. I can't be bothered to type out the entire story of what biden got wrong, it'd be a much shorter list to state what he got right. If you think he did a good job that's your perogative, but you must be the only person who does. The thing that is so much more worrying is his lack of awareness. Even when it was so obviously going badly wrong he just didn't get it, he wasn't even on the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 Trump was following a withdrawal plan set up under Obama. It wasn’t a bad plan. 1 for 1 meaning as one American left a base he would be replaced by a US paid Afghan soldier. Trump set a combat withdrawal date. Meaning after a certain date USA troops can defend themselves but cannot go offensive. All offensive operations had do be done by ANA troops. The bases where still being manned by USA troops and would give air, medivac, artillery support. But the whole point was to get the ANA working by themselves. Biden cut a deal with the Chinese to hand the country over to them and he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/9/2/afghanistan-taliban-to-rely-on-chinese-money-spokesperson-says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said: Trump was following a withdrawal plan set up under Obama. It wasn’t a bad plan. 1 for 1 meaning as one American left a base he would be replaced by a US paid Afghan soldier. Trump set a combat withdrawal date. Meaning after a certain date USA troops can defend themselves but cannot go offensive. All offensive operations had do be done by ANA troops. The bases where still being manned by USA troops and would give air, medivac, artillery support. But the whole point was to get the ANA working by themselves. Biden cut a deal with the Chinese to hand the country over to them and he did. You still seem to be missing the point it was Trumps administration that negotiated the surrender deal with the Taliban including the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners. Not Biden , not Obama. Edited September 5, 2021 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 Interview by Nick Roberston with Tom Tugendhat (Tory Chair of Foreign Affairs) is worth a watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 17 hours ago, ordnance said: You still seem to be missing the point it was Trumps administration that negotiated the surrender deal with the Taliban including the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners. Not Biden , not Obama. Yeah they should have stopped there another 20 years, spent another trillion or two , killed some more people , lost some more service personnel , still achieved nothing , THEN pulled out. And you would STILL blame Trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 8 hours ago, Rewulf said: Yeah they should have stopped there another 20 years, spent another trillion or two , killed some more people , lost some more service personnel , still achieved nothing , THEN pulled out. And you would STILL blame Trump If Trump had not surrendered to the Taliban when he was in office, then he couldn't be blamed for something that wouldn't have happened. But he did surrender and all that is happening now is flowing from his decision. It wasn't getting out was the issue, it was going to the Taliban on his knees giving them everything they wanted was the problem. He could write another book, the art of surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 4 hours ago, ordnance said: If Trump had not surrendered to the Taliban when he was in office, then he couldn't be blamed for something that wouldn't have happened. But he did surrender and all that is happening now is flowing from his decision. It wasn't getting out was the issue, it was going to the Taliban on his knees giving them everything they wanted was the problem. He could write another book, the art of surrender. Your Trump derangement syndrome is causing you to completely miss the point I'm afraid. Should the western powers have stayed in Afghan, fighting a pointless conflict without any clear end? Notice I say western powers, because its not just the US that decided it wanted to try its hand at subjugating a culture that really doesn't like being bullied. Trump didn't get the memo about extending the 'war against terror' thats been filling the coffers of various defence contractors for the past 20 years, so continued obamas promise to take US troops out of there, so it's not about surrender, its about a dignified withdrawal, then creepy joe got elected... Are you going to try and defend the current POTUS ? I suppose its Trumps fault Joe's got dementia, and barely knows what day it is? At what point will US foreign and domestic policy STOP being Trump's fault ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) I don’t buy the it was the last president’s fault (or the one before that) and the ‘at least Biden isn’t Trump’ has really worn thin now. I think a withdrawal was a good idea, but what about one with a plan and not in the middle of the fighting season? Biden sped up the withdrawal to meet his public pledge to get all troops out before the 9/11 anniversary and it’s that unnecessary speed of withdrawal which resulted in a collapse. Indeed, what I am most appalled at is that the US wouldn’t take any input or consultation from its ‘allies’ on any of this and that signals the ending of any special relationship. I never understood why they didn’t keep Bagram airbase open and leave that as the last point of exit, providing air cover and drone support? They (and I mean Biden & Co) can’t be that thick or obtuse surely? Anyway, if we’re looking back and pointing fingers blame Blair - this was always the Yank’s circus and all we ever did was give it international credibility. Edited September 7, 2021 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 Quote At what point will US foreign and domestic policy STOP being Trump's fault ? Probably when Trump supporters stop blaming Obama for all that went before Trump. The surrender deal was done on Trumps watch not Biden's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 8, 2021 Report Share Posted September 8, 2021 16 hours ago, ordnance said: Probably when Trump supporters stop blaming Obama for all that went before Trump. Eh ? No one even mentions obama these days. 16 hours ago, ordnance said: The surrender deal was done on Trumps watch not Biden's. Weak , Trump hasnt been 'on watch' for 8 months, and creepy Joe hasnt had any issues cancelling Trump projects before. So just carry on blaming Trump for whatever you like, but even the American people who dont support Trump arent blaming anyone except Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 8, 2021 Report Share Posted September 8, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Rewulf said: Eh ? No one even mentions obama these days. Weak , Trump hasnt been 'on watch' for 8 months, and creepy Joe hasnt had any issues cancelling Trump projects before. So just carry on blaming Trump for whatever you like, but even the American people who dont support Trump arent blaming anyone except Joe. I am not just blaming Trump, both are to blame Trump for the surrender Biden for his handling of the withdraw. Edited September 8, 2021 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 8, 2021 Report Share Posted September 8, 2021 2 hours ago, ordnance said: I am not just blaming Trump You could have fooled me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 21 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: You could have fooled me! As i said there is plenty of blame to go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 see that bloody woman Alex Crawford has ended up in Kabul.......she aint no Journalist or even a 3rd rate hack she is an adrenerlin junky ...end of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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