Shooting Insurance

[30-6]

While watching a pest control clip on you tube, the guy was rambling on about various topics. One thing he commented on was insurance. 

He stated if a business is a member, it must be declared so appropriate fee can go paid. OK, understand that. He then went on to say that if a private membership is taken up, any pest control carried out is covered unless for gain or reward. He then goes on to say if you take home any rabbit / pigeon from your day out this is classed as gain or reward, so basically nullifies any cover should you need to make a claim.

Is this correct ?

[Oly]

Surely depends on your insurance supplier, if in doubt read the policy document or call the supplier. 

[30-6]

Yeah, I do intend checking it out. I don't think it's correct. We are encouraged to eat what we shoot where possible, so would be a bit contradictory to then penalize a member.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, if a business is a member !!! ? If you run a pest control business eg limited company you get the appropriate insurance , if you are an individual doing pest control you get something like BASC , that's the way I see it, as for gain or reward ?? What's that about ??

[button]

Gain or reward I would take it as paid/professional services therfore that becomes a business

[wymberley]

14 hours ago, 30-6 said:

While watching a pest control clip on you tube, the guy was rambling on about various topics. One thing he commented on was insurance. 

He stated if a business is a member, it must be declared so appropriate fee can go paid. OK, understand that. He then went on to say that if a private membership is taken up, any pest control carried out is covered unless for gain or reward. He then goes on to say if you take home any rabbit / pigeon from your day out this is classed as gain or reward, so basically nullifies any cover should you need to make a claim.

Is this correct ?

I haven't a clue, but I do know that back in the day when the night shooting of rabbit was far more strictly controlled and the number of people 'qualified' to shoot on any given land were few and far between, payment in kind - ie what was shot - could be deemed to be wages.

[udderlyoffroad]

Complete and utter bovine droppings.  If you rely on YouTube videos for any sort of professional advice, i.e. legal, financial, or insurance advice, remember it can be worth exactly what you paid for it, i.e. £0.00.   If BASC’s underwriters suddenly deem taking home of game as some kind of benefit in kind, then I’m afraid the insurance industry is even more of a wheelie-bin-fire than it is already is perceived to be.  More to the point, that would’ve been highlighted to you front-and-centre of any insurance policy.  It would be an act of spectacular bad faith to bury it in the clauses somewhere, given the reasons for which the insurance is purchased.  Imagine the motor insurance industry’s equivalent “Yes we will insure you to drive this vehicle registered to you, for social domestic and pleasure purposes, but it excludes taking your family for a day out”

By all means email or call BASC (or whoever your insurance provider is), but I wouldn’t waste your time.

Yes, I am aware I’m just another ejiot on the internet ranting about something in which I am not a subject matter expert, but blow me some people talk some **** on the net.

[wymberley]

51 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Complete and utter bovine droppings.  If you rely on YouTube videos for any sort of professional advice, i.e. legal, financial, or insurance advice, remember it can be worth exactly what you paid for it, i.e. £0.00.   If BASC’s underwriters suddenly deem taking home of game as some kind of benefit in kind, then I’m afraid the insurance industry is even more of a wheelie-bin-fire than it is already is perceived to be.  More to the point, that would’ve been highlighted to you front-and-centre of any insurance policy.  It would be an act of spectacular bad faith to bury it in the clauses somewhere, given the reasons for which the insurance is purchased.  Imagine the motor insurance industry’s equivalent “Yes we will insure you to drive this vehicle registered to you, for social domestic and pleasure purposes, but it excludes taking your family for a day out”

By all means email or call BASC (or whoever your insurance provider is), but I wouldn’t waste your time.

Yes, I am aware I’m just another ejiot on the internet ranting about something in which I am not a subject matter expert, but blow me some people talk some **** on the net.

Don't know about BASC's underwriters, but here's the law:-

 Any other person, bona fide employed by him for reward in taking and destruction of ground game. The keeping of ground game satisfies the requirements of reward in the absence of money.

[David BASC]

Not correct at all.  Certainly with regard to the BASC members insurance, and I suspect any other similar membership insurances, keeping what you shoot is not going to invalidate the members insurance, selling some or all of it wont either in the case of BASC cover, provided that its not your main source of income.

Of course if you are a professional or full time pest controller for example , then yes you will need separate cover for your business and anyone you employ.

David

[udderlyoffroad]

Thanks for the input @David BASC

 

On 11/10/2021 at 15:14, wymberley said:

Don't know about BASC's underwriters, but here's the law:-

I don't thinks so.  On googling the phrase, that appears not to be the wording of the act itself, but rather an explanatory note on a BASC factsheet dated 2014 (PDF).  If you read further down, it states:

Quote

3. Reward - The keeping of the rabbits satisfies the requirement of reward in the absence of financial payment. This is subject to the arrangement being a genuine employment and not merely allowing a friend a days sport whether they keep the rabbits or not

Perhaps @David BASC would be kind enough to check with his team to confirm if the document is current or not?  I'm not aware of any changes to legislation that would make the advice in the doc out of date.

 

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Thanks for the input @David BASC

 

I don't thinks so.  On googling the phrase, that appears not to be the wording of the act itself, but rather an explanatory note on a BASC factsheet dated 2014 (PDF).  If you read further down, it states:

Perhaps @David BASC would be kind enough to check with his team to confirm if the document is current or not?  I'm not aware of any changes to legislation that would make the advice in the doc out of date.

 

First point, not too fussed, but will say that what I quoted is not the same as is given in your reference.

Secondly, should David feel so inclined, I'm perfectly content to abide by his (BASC) findings and appreciate the wording may well differ (legalese) but not the intent.

[David BASC]

As far as I know the Ground Game Act has not changed. But, keeping rabbits or anything else you have shot as a reward, or exchanging for payment is irrelevant as I said in the context of the BASC members insurance packages and  I would be amazed if any of the organisations insurance packages was invalidated because you shot a rabbit and took it home to eat!

[Gas seal]

Hi shooting rabbits at night can be done by a farmers (servant), employee , or one other named person only .Payment can be keeping the rabbits that are killed. Farmers are bound by law to control rabbits. Only one person can shoot at night. It’s not sport it’s pest control for payment. If a neighbour has rabbits on their land and they are coming onto your land and causing damage  the neighbour has to control them. If not the government used to control them and the land owners had to pay the cost. Because this law wasn’t used enough  it was abolished and now has to be done in a civil court. The railway has to control the rabbits, they have a contact number to deal with rabbits. I think this law is from the 1940s or 1950s . A farmer showed me this many years ago and l am sure it’s still law I’ve never heard that it’s been changed. It’s the law l use when shooting at rabbits at night.

[wymberley]

12 minutes ago, David BASC said:

As far as I know the Ground Game Act has not changed. But, keeping rabbits or anything else you have shot as a reward, or exchanging for payment is irrelevant as I said in the context of the BASC members insurance packages and  I would be amazed if any of the organisations insurance packages was invalidated because you shot a rabbit and took it home to eat!

Quite right, David, but things have moved on a little (as they so often do) to whether or not it is legal to accept what is shot as payment in lieu of cash for a bona fide employed person. 

Former PAS students are now all reaching for their 'bible'.

[David BASC]

Fair point, the key issue I was trying to cover was the insurance point

ta

David

[mossy835]

nice to see you back, david

[Scully]

22 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi shooting rabbits at night can be done by a farmers (servant), employee , or one other named person only .Payment can be keeping the rabbits that are killed. Farmers are bound by law to control rabbits. Only one person can shoot at night. It’s not sport it’s pest control for payment. If a neighbour has rabbits on their land and they are coming onto your land and causing damage  the neighbour has to control them. If not the government used to control them and the land owners had to pay the cost. Because this law wasn’t used enough  it was abolished and now has to be done in a civil court. The railway has to control the rabbits, they have a contact number to deal with rabbits. I think this law is from the 1940s or 1950s . A farmer showed me this many years ago and l am sure it’s still law I’ve never heard that it’s been changed. It’s the law l use when shooting at rabbits at night.

We have used and unused railway lines running through much of our rough shoot and permissions, and I’ve often been told that the owners of said railways are obliged to control rabbit numbers, but I’ve never known it happen. 
Separate to that, and this isn’t aimed at you, just a general observation. On the subject of monies exchanging hands, if you’re a private individual and not a professional peat controller, doing the pest control and being paid by the landowner, then as long as no records of payment either in cash or in kind are kept, then who’s to know? Most people I know operate in this fashion. 

Even when we sold rabbits by the 100 to a game dealer, we were paid in cash. 

[Gas seal]

Hi Scully a few farms l shoot have railway lines running through them. One has one on the boundary and one running thew it. The railway have controlled the rabbits on them. The farm and one nearby had hundreds of yards of electric netting to keep rabbits off the crops. The network rail help line is 03457 11 41 41 good luck with getting them to clear the rabbits it’s pot luck.  Killing rabbits is more involved than most shooters think, it’s done under the 1954 pest act, fire arms are granted for pest or vermin control. David is right about insurance ,the rabbits , or game you shoot can be sold so long as it’s not your main income . If you charge people to shoot pigeons, rabbits ,then it’s commercial with commercial insurance, health and safety rules. BASC insurance covers a lot. I wouldn’t go by a U tube video I would look at my insurance policy before I went shooting or if a BASC member ask them.

 

 

 

 

[wymberley]

15 minutes ago, Gas seal said:

Hi Scully a few farms l shoot have railway lines running through them. One has one on the boundary and one running thew it. The railway have controlled the rabbits on them. The farm and one nearby had hundreds of yards of electric netting to keep rabbits off the crops. The network rail help line is 03457 11 41 41 good luck with getting them to clear the rabbits it’s pot luck.  Killing rabbits is more involved than most shooters think, it’s done under the 1954 pest act, fire arms are granted for pest or vermin control. David is right about insurance ,the rabbits , or game you shoot can be sold so long as it’s not your main income . If you charge people to shoot pigeons, rabbits ,then it’s commercial with commercial insurance, health and safety rules. BASC insurance covers a lot. I wouldn’t go by a U tube video I would look at my insurance policy before I went shooting or if a BASC member ask them.

 

 

 

 

One could argue (see Bang bang Nik 19 Aug 2012) that as the job is getting done, don't rock the boat. BUT. Things are going to get increasingly expensive and those paying out will be jealous of their sport. Consequently, it's not a bad idea to consider the eminently sensible post quoted and to make sure that you're covered for your pest control activity and especially at night. Sight a copy of Fair Game and acting on Page 30 is not a bad idea. Just one point worth noting - if you are stopped by someone authorised (Page 31) to see  your authorisation (Page 30) and you haven't got it with you, then you are not authorised at that time.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Gas seal said:

Hi Scully a few farms l shoot have railway lines running through them. One has one on the boundary and one running thew it. The railway have controlled the rabbits on them. The farm and one nearby had hundreds of yards of electric netting to keep rabbits off the crops. The network rail help line is 03457 11 41 41 good luck with getting them to clear the rabbits it’s pot luck.  Killing rabbits is more involved than most shooters think, it’s done under the 1954 pest act, fire arms are granted for pest or vermin control. David is right about insurance ,the rabbits , or game you shoot can be sold so long as it’s not your main income . If you charge people to shoot pigeons, rabbits ,then it’s commercial with commercial insurance, health and safety rules. BASC insurance covers a lot. I wouldn’t go by a U tube video I would look at my insurance policy before I went shooting or if a BASC member ask them.

 

 

 

 

We have an abandoned railway owned by railway enthusiasts running through our rough shoot, on which they do no rabbit control whatsoever, but we don’t mind as it leaves plenty for us! They also neglect to repair the fences to prevent livestock getting onto the line, so one landowner repaired sections himself and sent them the bill. Whether they ever got paid I have no idea. Another put up a rabbit proof fence, which worked to a degree until badgers excavated under it. 
The other is the Carlisle- Settle line, on the bankings of which we have shot countless rabbits over the years. We used to have great sport sniping them years ago.