Game shooting - Which aftermarket Teague Super Extended 20 gauge choke combination ?

[Shotkam]

On 21/10/2021 at 14:12, wymberley said:

No, such a blanket statement is not possible without specifying a quarry species.

Still confused as to which cartridge this is; it's not the Hull 20 Extreme.

Sorry missed this post.

The quarry was pheasants.

The cartridges were Gamebore.

12 hours ago, wymberley said:

Shotcam,

To your credit, you're obviously one of Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey's 45%ers. Sadly, I'm at the other end of the scale so will opt out now. But first, a few final points;

Nobody said that 3 strikes are required in a vital organ in order to kill.

The answer to the differing MV question is just 0.11 ftlbs and the second element was, of course, pattern.

Rest assured that Hull's Extreme 6 is not 6&3/4, but a tad under 5 at 2.75mm.

No doubt you are familiar with V2.5 - as are Hull, not so much Gamebore.

Good luck in your quest.

I estimated Hull's as being 6&2/3 and UK 6 is 2.6mm and UK 5 is 2.8mm.

[Gas seal]

Hi shooting at a pattern paper will tell if enough pellets hit it to suit a type of shooting. Components for making cartridges have come a long way   Hard shot and powders to give speed and lower pressure it all helps. Tom Roster does give minimum shot counts , he does a lot of field testing. In the U.K. we use calculators and percentages and ft lb , the US  use penetrating test for different quarry. Testing cartridges at this time of the year cartridges should be at the same temperature, maybe room temperature. The US call it the cold weather testing when they test again in cold weather. Wildfowl cartridges are advertised as passing the cold weather test. Kent tungsten cartridges were advertised as passing the cold weather test in US  years ago. 20gauge cartridges are limited compared to 12gauge. Testing 12gauge would take a long time, and cost a lot more. There must be over a hundred different types of 12gauge cartridges out there. Shooting at paper will tell if  enough  pellets get there, l don’t think it matters if some get there before others. Over the years l have seen shooters work on 700 square inches to a 30inch circle and trying to load cartridges by percentages , we have good cartridges and screw in chokes to use now. Shotkam you will find the best combination for your gun. And it will give you confidence. Many shooters will just use the cheapest cartridges, some will use the (best,) and some will use what they have always used. Shooting a few cartridges at a piece of paper might surprise a few shooters. Rifle shooters will zero there guns before shooting at targets or live animals. 

[Shotkam]

13 hours ago, Shotkam said:

Sorry missed this post.

The quarry was pheasants.

The cartridges were Gamebore.

I estimated Hull's as being 6&2/3 and UK 6 is 2.6mm and UK 5 is 2.8mm.

Sorry - Should read Hull's No 6 I estimated Hull's as being 5 3/4 shot size as there's is 2.75mm and UK 6 is 2.6mm and UK 5 is 2.8mm.

[Shotkam]

Clay and Game have 3% antimony Shot 6 2.65mm ( so 5 3/4 approx ) Shot 5 2.85mm ( so 4 3/4 approx ) so I will load with those for the 1st test loads.

True UK 6 is 2.6mm

True UK 5 is 2.8mm

So their offerings are 1/4 size over true shot size -  based on the UK shot sizing chart for lead shot on their website.

I have just been looking again at the the paper patterns and basically there is no pattern there in all the loads and with trying all the chokes 32/34g and 1/4 - 1/2 and 3/4 Teague chokes even at 50 yards.

I estimate there will be close to an adequate consistent pattern / retained energy at 50 yards for the 2.65mm shot and < 55 yards for the 2.85mm shot.

Only the testing will show.

I will go on shot count in the 20" and the 30" circle when the time comes.

Apologies if you find all this boring.

[matone]

I`ve found that 28gr of No 5 always seems to perform best at longer birds in the 20`s that I have owned although none have had more than fixed 1/2 choke. Never tried heavier loads ,if I feel theyre reqd ,I take a 12 .

[Shotkam]

3 hours ago, matone said:

I`ve found that 28gr of No 5 always seems to perform best at longer birds in the 20`s that I have owned although none have had more than fixed 1/2 choke. Never tried heavier loads ,if I feel theyre reqd ,I take a 12 .

Can't really take the Maxus semi out game shooting though so confined to the 20.

[matone]

9 hours ago, Shotkam said:

No,that wouldn`t be popular !!!

 

[Gerry78]

15 hours ago, Shotkam said:

Can't really take the Maxus semi out game shooting though so confined to the 20.

USA 🇺🇸 MAYBE 👍

[matone]

On 23/10/2021 at 12:23, Shotkam said:

Clay and Game have 3% antimony Shot 6 2.65mm ( so 5 3/4 approx ) Shot 5 2.85mm ( so 4 3/4 approx ) so I will load with those for the 1st test loads.

True UK 6 is 2.6mm

True UK 5 is 2.8mm

So their offerings are 1/4 size over true shot size -  based on the UK shot sizing chart for lead shot on their website.

I have just been looking again at the the paper patterns and basically there is no pattern there in all the loads and with trying all the chokes 32/34g and 1/4 - 1/2 and 3/4 Teague chokes even at 50 yards.

I estimate there will be close to an adequate consistent pattern / retained energy at 50 yards for the 2.65mm shot and < 55 yards for the 2.85mm shot.

Only the testing will show.

I will go on shot count in the 20" and the 30" circle when the time comes.

Apologies if you find all this boring.

So what have you concluded now that we`re well into the season and you`ve had opportunity to test the theory ?

[Shotkam]

26 minutes ago, matone said:

So what have you concluded now that we`re well into the season and you`ve had opportunity to test the theory ?

Based on 20 guage -

The only way top end Game cartridges can achieve a kill over 60 yards is by using larger shot than UK No 5, which results in pattern failure.

By using continental shot sizes and calling them what we know as a No 5 is a disaster as the increased actual shot size results in the patterns failing well below 50 yards.

I have not managed to find a manufactured cartridge that will produce a humane consistent pattern much more than 45 yards.

Which is why I embarked on developing my own loads from the outset.

I accept the 120 pellet count, whereas others will favour more or less for the reasons they have stated.

 

[Scully]

Get a 12 bore? Just a thought. 

[matone]

22 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

Based on 20 guage -

The only way top end Game cartridges can achieve a kill over 60 yards is by using larger shot than UK No 5, which results in pattern failure.

By using continental shot sizes and calling them what we know as a No 5 is a disaster as the increased actual shot size results in the patterns failing well below 50 yards.

I have not managed to find a manufactured cartridge that will produce a humane consistent pattern much more than 45 yards.

Which is why I embarked on developing my own loads from the outset.

I accept the 120 pellet count, whereas others will favour more or less for the reasons they have stated.

 

All sounds about right tbh. 

[Shotkam]

13 minutes ago, Scully said:

Get a 12 bore? Just a thought. 

Yes it is, but I would never go back to the weight of a 12 now that I realise how effective a 20 can be in comparison - like you say, point it in the right place and most guns / cartridges will do the job up to a certain range.

A great deal depends on how hard you have worked over the years to understand where you need to point the gun !

[London Best]

At least you have discovered for yourself what the shooting world has known for 120 years.

[Scully]

15 hours ago, Shotkam said:

Yes it is, but I would never go back to the weight of a 12 now that I realise how effective a 20 can be in comparison - like you say, point it in the right place and most guns / cartridges will do the job up to a certain range.

A great deal depends on how hard you have worked over the years to understand where you need to point the gun !

Your second paragraph applies equally to any shotgun of any bore. 

[wymberley]

On 23/11/2021 at 08:39, London Best said:

At least you have discovered for yourself what the shooting world has known for 120 years.

Don't knock the chap. I suspect that the percentage of the shooting world that has KNOWN for 120 years in reality  is very small and in the main it is fortunate that such knowledge has not been essential to achieve sporting success simply because for most of those years game was engaged at distances well within the capability of the guns.

Those who read forget, those who see remember and those who do know.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

On 23/11/2021 at 08:39, London Best said:

At least you have discovered for yourself what the shooting world has known for 120 years.

Indeed and of course RED cartridges help too!

[Shotkam]

On 22/11/2021 at 19:56, matone said:

So what have you concluded now that we`re well into the season and you`ve had opportunity to test the theory ?

I have concluded that having given the 32g Gamebore 20 Guage fibre No 5 an extensive trial on pheasants, I plan to move to away from their continental shot size which equates to 4 1/3 to Hull High Pheasant Extreme No 5 true UK size.

I would choose the No 6 over No 5 but they are discontinued.

It will be interesting to see them on the pattern plate at different ranges with various chokes.

Still not have not had time to reload sadly.