Rewulf Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, timps said: So everyone in Ukraine is fighting for money, McDonalds and Netflix? Did I say that? 16 minutes ago, timps said: I was under the impression Russia and Ukraine had them all before the invasion my mistake They have Mercedes and Ferrari dealerships too, why isn't everyone driving round in them? 18 minutes ago, timps said: I was replying to stonepark who was intimating that NATO started this by engineering the coup. So I take it that you now think that NATO are the aggressors and Putin is not which seems at odds with your other post You keep saying NATO, but if anyone engineered the coup, it was the US, they have gained more from this than anyone else, the rest of us have to just tag along for the ride, same as Afghanistan and Iraq. 22 minutes ago, timps said: I stand by my point the people of Ukraine wanted this freedom hence why they are prepared to fight for it As long as they understand, freedom isn't free. There will be hefty interest payments on all loans 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Oliver Stone made this documentary Ukraine on Fire a while back. Shows some of the major players leading up to where we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, mchughcb said: Oliver Stone made this documentary Ukraine on Fire a while back. Shows some of the major players leading up to where we are now. Does the video show russia crossing an international border illegally into another country and attacking it ,killing its people and destroying its infrastructure? Does it show the people of ukraine that the illegal russian army have killed and continue to kill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 18 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Did I say that? Yes you stated the coup only happened because they wanted McDonald’s and Netflix. They are fighting to keep the coup alive so it must be to keep the McDonald’s and Netflix unless that wasn’t the reason for the coup in the first place. 19 minutes ago, Rewulf said: They have Mercedes and Ferrari dealerships too, why isn't everyone driving round in them? I have no idea what you are on about here 19 minutes ago, Rewulf said: You keep saying NATO, but if anyone engineered the coup, it was the US, they have gained more from this than anyone else, the rest of us have to just tag along for the ride, same as Afghanistan and Iraq. I was replying to stonepark so you need to discuss that with him 20 minutes ago, Rewulf said: As long as they understand, freedom isn't free. There will be hefty interest payments on all loans 😂 Maybe you should go and tell them to give up fighting and just accept their fate under Putins thumb then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 13 minutes ago, welsh1 said: Does the video show russia crossing .......... As I'm sure you are aware, Oliver Stone is/has been very close to Putin and has made a (Putin approved) documentary 4 hours long about him. Reviews suggest that the "Ukraine on fire" presented a very 'pro Kremlin' view. Stone is generally considered a Putin 'apologist'. Google brings up masses of reviews. However Stone has been (somewhat) critical of the Feb 2022 invasion. https://deadline.com/2022/03/oliver-stone-criticizes-putin-ukraine-1234973037/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 59 minutes ago, mchughcb said: Oliver Stone made this documentary Ukraine on Fire a while back. Shows some of the major players leading up to where we are now. Igor Lopatonok was the producer was he not? 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 57 minutes ago, welsh1 said: Does the video show russia crossing an international border illegally into another country and attacking it ,killing its people and destroying its infrastructure? Does it show the people of ukraine that the illegal russian army have killed and continue to kill? This was made before the special military operation right back to the days of Stephan bandera. Warning, it has some pretty graphic pictures of what the nationalists were doing to the Jews during WW2 31 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: As I'm sure you are aware, Oliver Stone is/has been very close to Putin and has made a (Putin approved) documentary 4 hours long about him. Reviews suggest that the "Ukraine on fire" presented a very 'pro Kremlin' view. Stone is generally considered a Putin 'apologist'. Google brings up masses of reviews. However Stone has been (somewhat) critical of the Feb 2022 invasion. https://deadline.com/2022/03/oliver-stone-criticizes-putin-ukraine-1234973037/ Yes and Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, timps said: Yes you stated the coup only happened because they wanted McDonald’s and Netflix Nope didn't say that, go back and read it again. 1 hour ago, timps said: have no idea what you are on about here Then go back and read it again. 1 hour ago, timps said: I was replying to stonepark so you need to discuss that with him You are now replying to me, if it's not relevant, don't quote it. 1 hour ago, timps said: Maybe you should go and tell them to give up fighting and just accept their fate under Putins thumb then Poor answer from you, but then, it was a difficult one. They can fight as long as they like, it's still going to cost the next 2 generations economically, I don't see the standard of living going up anytime soon. I suspect many Ukrainians will wish Maidan never happened now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, mchughcb said: This was made before the special military operation right back to the days of Stephan bandera. Warning, it has some pretty graphic pictures of what the nationalists were doing to the Jews during WW2 Yes and Yes I am asking if this shows the invasion of ukraine against international law by russia, by crossing ukraines border and commiting an act of war on them and killing thier people? So, does it show the act of war commited by russia against ukraine? We all agree that russia invaded ukraine in an act of war and has been murdering it's population don't we? Oh and there was no "special military mission" it was an act of war. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Nope didn't say that, go back and read it again. I did and you said “The students that started Maidan, had never known anything different , they wanted McDonalds and Netflix …” So the people who started the coup wanted McDonald’s and Netflix, that may not be what you mean but it is certainly what you wrote. 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: You are now replying to me, if it's not relevant, don't quote it. The thing is you always seem to quote my posts but completely ignore the posts I am replying therefore loosing context. So yes it is relevant, as I wouldn’t have written it in the first place, anyway just for you let’s change it to the west, USA or whatever, how does it further your point? 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Poor answer from you, but then, it was a difficult one. They can fight as long as they like, it's still going to cost the next 2 generations economically, I don't see the standard of living going up anytime soon. I suspect many Ukrainians will wish Maidan never happened now. It was in response to a poor answer from you, they obviously feel the price of what they are fighting is worth it, however, you don’t. The thing is plenty are happy it happened and are prepared to fight for it. This is something that you refuse to accept, you can’t accept people will fight for what they believe in and to them it is worth the price. If they wished it hadn’t happened then they could have welcomed the Russian’s with open arms, as that didn’t happen they feel it is worth it. The UK only finished paying for WWII in December 2006 so by your logic we should have followed appeasement just so we wouldn’t have had debt. My point is go and speak to those on the front line and ask them as you are not going to convince me they should give up as you don’t think it is worth it. Edited October 11, 2022 by timps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, timps said: So the people who started the coup wanted McDonald’s and Netflix, that may not be what you mean but it is certainly what you wrote The students started the coup? Is that what I wrote? I think not. Can you not differentiate between the Maidan protests, and the eventual coup, that's like saying you made someone pregnant by holding their hand 😂 12 minutes ago, timps said: The thing is you always seem to quote my posts but completely ignore the posts I am replying therefore loosing context. So yes it is relevant, as I wouldn’t have written it in the first place, anyway just for you let’s change it to the west, USA or whatever, how does it further your point? I take it you've been to the pub again? 14 minutes ago, timps said: It was in response to a poor answer from you, they obviously feel the price of what they are fighting is worth it, however, you don’t. The thing is plenty are happy it happened and are prepared to fight for it. This is something that you refuse to accept, you can’t accept people will fight for what they believe in and to them it is worth the price I'm not sure they're happy that their country lies in ruins, with tens of thousands dead, was it worth it {so far}? America says #@&£ yeah! 20 minutes ago, timps said: they wished it hadn’t happened then they could have welcomed the Russian’s with open arms, as that didn’t happen they feel it is worth it Eh? 20 minutes ago, timps said: The UK only finished paying for WWII in December 2006 so by your logic we should have followed appeasement just so we wouldn’t have had debt Eh? 21 minutes ago, timps said: My point is go and speak to those on the front line and ask them as you are not going to convince me they should give up as you don’t think it is worth it Eh? Read that back to yourself 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Rewulf said: The students started the coup? Is that what I wrote? I think not. Can you not differentiate between the Maidan protests, and the eventual coup, that's like saying you made someone pregnant by holding their hand 😂 I take it you've been to the pub again? I'm not sure they're happy that their country lies in ruins, with tens of thousands dead, was it worth it {so far}? America says #@&£ yeah! Eh? Eh? Eh? Read that back to yourself 😂 That is a very weak reply, if a reply at all and we can all see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mungler said: That is a very weak reply, if a reply at all and we can all see it. If you watch the documentary Ukraine on fire the nationalists said the student protest was a weak as any lgbtqi protest so they rocked up with the muscles and weapons and targeted the security forces and that's when it went ugly resulting in murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 4 hours ago, welsh1 said: I am asking if this shows the invasion of ukraine against international law by russia, by crossing ukraines border and commiting an act of war on them and killing thier people? So, does it show the act of war commited by russia against ukraine? We all agree that russia invaded ukraine in an act of war and has been murdering it's population don't we? Oh and there was no "special military mission" it was an act of war. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......................................... The documentary was made in 2016. The special military operation started in 2022 so once again the answer is obviously no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, mchughcb said: The documentary was made in 2016. The special military operation started in 2022 so once again the answer is obviously no. "Special military operation" Really? What exactly do you believe the Russians special military operation objectives are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: "Special military operation" Really? What exactly do you believe the Russians special military operation objectives are? He won’t refer to it as anything else - it’s odd isn’t it, that and his love of Putin too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 3 hours ago, mchughcb said: The documentary was made in 2016. The special military operation started in 2022 so once again the answer is obviously no. You mean the war, let's not try to hide the fact that Russia declared war on Ukraine and invaded killing innocent Ukrainians.And continues to be the aggressor by remaining illegally in Ukraine. As I said if it walks like a duck,............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 7 hours ago, Rewulf said: The students started the coup? Is that what I wrote? I think not. Can you not differentiate between the Maidan protests, and the eventual coup, that's like saying you made someone pregnant by holding their hand 😂 I take it you've been to the pub again? I'm not sure they're happy that their country lies in ruins, with tens of thousands dead, was it worth it {so far}? America says #@&£ yeah! Eh? Eh? Eh? Read that back to yourself 😂 If the protest didn’t start the coup or have anything to do with it then why did you bring them up in regards to my post then? As you said in an earlier post “if it's not relevant, don't quote it.” If not the McDonald’s and Netflix you posted then what were the reasons people fought for the coup then? Money might enable a coup but without a cause to rally behind the coup dies. No I hadn’t been in the pub or had a drink, maybe you’ll say I’m illiterate again, maybe you’ll tell me I have to block you again or this is some angry rant, who knows, but your personal jibes are not a good debating style and pretty poor although they make me laugh as it usually means I’ve struck a nerve and you have no response. I do find it odd that you continually quote my posts and pay no attention to the quoted post they are in response to and take them out of context. But I see you didn’t answer the question, so let’s try again, what does it matter if I agree and say ok I was wrong let’s say USA not NATO? Regarding the other stuff you were arguing it’s not worth it economically and the standard of living will tank, so my points were about whether the war is economically worth it, now you are back on number of dead. Yes I get you don’t think it’s worth it, but the people fighting think differently to you otherwise they wouldn’t fight and it is their choice. NATO can supply all the weapons they like but if there are no people wanting to fight then it would be pointless. Please don’t say they are all right wing Nazis brain washed by the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Mungler said: He won’t refer to it as anything else - it’s odd isn’t it, that and his love of Putin too. Starting to wonder if PW really does have a Russian bot 😳😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, welsh1 said: You mean the war, let's not try to hide the fact that Russia declared war on Ukraine and invaded killing innocent Ukrainians.And continues to be the aggressor by remaining illegally in Ukraine. As I said if it walks like a duck,............ I get that you don't agree with the actions but you asked about the content of the documentary. Maybe you should watch it, it is very interesting. 4 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: "Special military operation" Really? What exactly do you believe the Russians special military operation objectives are? They were laid out in simple terms by Putin. Not all objectives are achieved and there can always be scope creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, mchughcb said: I get that you don't agree with the actions but you asked about the content of the documentary. Maybe you should watch it, it is very interesting. They were laid out in simple terms by Putin. Not all objectives are achieved and there can always be scope creep. I'm sorry, I can't take you seriously, are you on a wind up or do you honestly believe Russia hasn't launched an invasion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 There is no doubt that the Russians invaded Ukraine. Any other questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, mchughcb said: I get that you don't agree with the actions but you asked about the content of the documentary. Maybe you should watch it, it is very interesting. They were laid out in simple terms by Putin. Not all objectives are achieved and there can always be scope creep. Once again we circle back to "bonkers". To keep asserting (without deviation) that this is but a "special military operation" (and now with a national call up) and not a war and not an invasion shows that you are either an expert level troll, a card carrying Russian shill or nuts. It is a brilliant demonstration though that you will unquestioningly accept Russian propaganda and alteration of facts and language - straight out of Animal Farm. I would be intrigued for Rewulf's views on this aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 20 minutes ago, mchughcb said: There is no doubt that the Russians invaded Ukraine. Any other questions? So it's an invasion! not a special military operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 19 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: So it's an invasion! not a special military operation. Special military operation could involve many actions, including infringing air space, cyber attacks, assassinations, disruption of water supplies etc. Have a read of the USA military operations which include invasion of panama. It's quite clear who has the ability to use force and who can declare war. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Panama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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