reloading

[davewh100]

I'm fairly new to reloading so slightly confused about factory crimping some saying no need to and some saying you do.. some more advice would be appreciated

thanks dave

[Sako7mm]

Don’t waste your time with it. 

[DUNKS]

Factory type crimp or roll crimp, either will do the job but unless you are loading black powder you can buy cheaper!

[Walker570]

Are you using a loading machine ?

If so then that should come with a crimp former and finisher. Mec600 for instance.

It makes little difference which you choose to do but if your using a machine then a crimp is the way to go. I finish all of my  3 inch 410s with a crimp and then spin with GAEP spinner available from Folkestone Engineering.

as said 10 bore and larger a different approach.

[davewh100]

sorry not made my self clear I'm reloading 223  243 got the lee 4 turret press iv got the crimping dies but does crimping make a difference

thanks

[London Best]

I took the OP to mean factory crimping of centre fire rifle rounds??

If so, as Sako7mm says, don’t bother. I have reloaded c/f for thirty years and have never found any need to crimp the bullets in.

[Minky]

There's lots of variables in reloading. I've never had the Lee dies that do this type of crimp and my reloads are very good.  A possible downside could be one of inducing splits in the neck due to work hardening of the crimped area.  Don't know.

[davewh100]

9 minutes ago, Minky said:

There's lots of variables in reloading. I've never had the Lee dies that do this type of crimp and my reloads are very good.  A possible downside could be one of inducing splits in the neck due to work hardening of the crimped area.  Don't know.

yeah this is why i was told not to bother just needed good advice from the lads on hear with plenty of experience

[Walker570]

The only cases I have ever crimped where my 300H&H full load and my 375JDJ which kills at both ends. Both will shift a bullet if not crimped, otherwise from 17 Rem up through 30-06 never crimped.

[Flyboy1950]

I reload 223, 243 and 308. I always crimp all my rounds, reason being I believe you get a more uniform release pressure on firing, which aids accuracy. This is why manufactures do it, they use the least powder they can get away with to meet Saami specifications. They have to make sure ammo is safe in the oldest and the newest firearms for each calibre and that semi autos will recycle, they have no idea where the manufactured ammo will be used, so they cover their Ar--s. 

I have never split a neck using the Lee crimping die, it`s a brilliant piece of kit.

This also helps when you anneal by hand and cannot always get the brass softened to the same consistency across a batch. I know a lot of reloaders who will have a go at me for this, but it`s what I do and I have never had a bullet stuck in the rifle when unloading when crossing obstacles etc.

If you are using Lee stuff (Which l do) if you read the Lee reloading book they recommend crimping cartridges especially when hunting.

Good luck with your reloading, you will find it highly addictive, just remember to be consistent with what you do and  not only consult your tables in books, double check on line with the powder manufactures.

 

FB

Edited March 24, 2022 by Flyboy1950

[miki]

As @Flyboy1950said above 👍

I crimp my 223, 25-06 and 30-06 using the Lee crimping die. Not mahoosive pressure, just a light squeeze to produce a consistant neck pressure and to ensure that the bullets don't get knocked in (or out) during the several times I take them for a walk across the fields 

It does help keep the velocity spread small across a batch, so I guess this also helps with accuracy although to be honest the 'effect of me' on accuracy is greater.

 

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

The only cases I have ever crimped where my 300H&H full load and my 375JDJ which kills at both ends. Both will shift a bullet if not crimped, otherwise from 17 Rem up through 30-06 never crimped.

I have never had a round shift an uncrimped bullet, up to and including my .375 H&H mag.

[enfieldspares]

Factory crimping on rifle cartridges does two, maybe three things. These are:

1) Stops the bullet being pushed back into its cartridge case when being worked through the magazine. This may be especially important on a tubular magazine rifle such as a Winchester or Marlin underlever.

2) Stops the bullet of the other rounds loaded in the weapon for moving forwards out of its cartridge case under the recoil of the gun being fired. This may be especially important with heavy bullets over say 250 grains in a side by side or over and under double rifle or heavy bullets in a revolver. .455 Webley revolver cartridges were crimped to withstand a force of 24 ft/lbs of recoil. 

3) Can give at the expense of higher pressure a more consistent and often slightly higher velocity especially with slower powders. Using better primers will however also achieve that goal! Or where using bullets with very little parallel surface and/or in bottleneck cases with short necks. Such as .44-40.

So if 1), 2) or 3) are a factor it may be worth crimping. But in .223" or .243" unless there are issues as at 1) which would only occur in a badly designed rifle I wouldn't see a need.

Edited March 24, 2022 by enfieldspares

[davewh100]

some great replays there thanks all, I'm using s new tikka t3x super varmint 243 and tikka t3x 223 only use lapua brass, cci primers and hornady 75g v-max in the 243 and hornady 55g v-max in the 223, usein 2 different types of powder reload 15 and vihtavuori N160 

[Walker570]

3 hours ago, London Best said:

I have never had a round shift an uncrimped bullet, up to and including my .375 H&H mag.

To be honest I have never noticed eitheras both of the rifles I mention are single shots but having spoken with a friend in the USA who was pretty up in the reloading and shooting field he suggested I might just do that.    Certainly not required in the calibres mentioned by the OP.

[Sako7mm]

If you want absolute consistency in the tension your bullet is seated with, neck turning not crimping is the way forward. No disrespect intended, but if you need to ask the question it’s more experience you need, not a crimping die.

[davewh100]

7 hours ago, Sako7mm said:

If you want absolute consistency in the tension your bullet is seated with, neck turning not crimping is the way forward. No disrespect intended, but if you need to ask the question it’s more experience you need, not a crimping die.

dont need a crimping die it came in a set i purchased from new, how do you get experience along the way without asking questions I'm sure I'm not the only person who would rather ask others than totally mess up, why include something in a set that is not needed

[London Best]

7 hours ago, Sako7mm said:

If you want absolute consistency in the tension your bullet is seated with, neck turning not crimping is the way forward. No disrespect intended, but if you need to ask the question it’s more experience you need, not a crimping die.

 

21 minutes ago, davewh100 said:

dont need a crimping die it came in a set i purchased from new, how do you get experience along the way without asking questions I'm sure I'm not the only person who would rather ask others than totally mess up, why include something in a set that is not needed

When I started reloading (1991) I asked a very experienced local RFD/riflesmith/bench rest expert to come to my house and give me a lesson. Obviously, he was very thorough and meticulous. Many on here may remember Brian Pybus?
He advised me that bullet crimping was totally unnecessary.

[Walker570]

Infront of you LB by about 12 years or so.  I tend to agree with anyhting Brian said and I only crimped the calibres I mentioned because John Wootters a close friend advised it but of course he believed I was shooting a magazine rifle and that is where on heavy recoiling rifles a bullet can be moved whilst in the magazine but of course always willing to learn after forty five years.  Anyone on here who does not know the name John Wootters , he was Excutive Editor of Petersens Hunting Magazine  and others for many years and considered by the majority of hunters and reloaders in the USA as "The Man"  and his reloading room was, at a guess 30ft long by 15 foot wide with two windows overlooking a 100 yard range one window for him and one for his wife.  Everything he did, he did with meticulous precision.

I remember him coming over as my guest and we took him and his wife to the Game Fair in Yorkshire  circa 1986.  On walking around the stands he saw one displaying some lovely old blackpowder rifles and went over for a look.  He asked the man at the desk about one and got talking. The guy said to him, "If your from the USA you must have heard of John Wootters", John quietly replied..."I am John Wootters".   The guys face was a picture.

Now sadly gone and deeply missed.

[davewh100]

7 hours ago, London Best said:

 

When I started reloading (1991) I asked a very experienced local RFD/riflesmith/bench rest expert to come to my house and give me a lesson. Obviously, he was very thorough and meticulous. Many on here may remember Brian Pybus?
He advised me that bullet crimping was totally unnecessary.

thank you 👍

3 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Infront of you LB by about 12 years or so.  I tend to agree with anyhting Brian said and I only crimped the calibres I mentioned because John Wootters a close friend advised it but of course he believed I was shooting a magazine rifle and that is where on heavy recoiling rifles a bullet can be moved whilst in the magazine but of course always willing to learn after forty five years.  Anyone on here who does not know the name John Wootters , he was Excutive Editor of Petersens Hunting Magazine  and others for many years and considered by the majority of hunters and reloaders in the USA as "The Man"  and his reloading room was, at a guess 30ft long by 15 foot wide with two windows overlooking a 100 yard range one window for him and one for his wife.  Everything he did, he did with meticulous precision.

I remember him coming over as my guest and we took him and his wife to the Game Fair in Yorkshire  circa 1986.  On walking around the stands he saw one displaying some lovely old blackpowder rifles and went over for a look.  He asked the man at the desk about one and got talking. The guy said to him, "If your from the USA you must have heard of John Wootters", John quietly replied..."I am John Wootters".   The guys face was a picture.

Now sadly gone and deeply missed.

thanks walker 570 a great story to finish 👍

[Windswept]

7 hours ago, davewh100 said:

dont need a crimping die it came in a set i purchased from new, how do you get experience along the way without asking questions I'm sure I'm not the only person who would rather ask others than totally mess up, why include something in a set that is not needed

Completely agree with asking questions, better to ask than assume something. Although you may well end up with multiple contradictory answers.

I will add that it'll depend on what you are using the cartridge for and the components it consists of. I've used a 308 for a fair bit of rapid fire target shooting and I don't crimp for that. I've slimmed down the decapping rod/mandrel slightly so when the bullets I use are seated snugly. I don't have any problems with the bullets being pushed into the case or coming loose.

I'm currently working on some light loads for a 303 and have found these must be crimped. I chronographed some cartridges that were uncrimped and the spread in velocity was terrible, you could tell from the cases the powder wasn't burning cleanly. A nice crimp with the lee die and the velocity spread narrowed and the cases were much cleaner showing the powder was burning more completely.

 

[Minky]

1 hour ago, Windswept said:

Completely agree with asking questions, better to ask than assume something. Although you may well end up with multiple contradictory answers.

I will add that it'll depend on what you are using the cartridge for and the components it consists of. I've used a 308 for a fair bit of rapid fire target shooting and I don't crimp for that. I've slimmed down the decapping rod/mandrel slightly so when the bullets I use are seated snugly. I don't have any problems with the bullets being pushed into the case or coming loose.

I'm currently working on some light loads for a 303 and have found these must be crimped. I chronographed some cartridges that were uncrimped and the spread in velocity was terrible, you could tell from the cases the powder wasn't burning cleanly. A nice crimp with the lee die and the velocity spread narrowed and the cases were much cleaner showing the powder was burning more completely.

 

As Manuel from Fawlty Towers used to say " I  learn Mr Fawlty, I  learn " upon Basil would clip him round the ear.  There are as many ideas as there are combinations of bullet and powder.  It took me a long time and lots of different bullets and powder but in the end I  generated a 223 round that uses a 55gn bthp driven out at 3450fps.  This combo will reliably kill out to 300 paces wherever it hits. But I  usually range at 80 paces.  I've never crimped any rounds and never had loose bullets or bullets that have pulled out ot the case and gotten stuck in the barrel throat.

[London Best]

My .308, which I have used since 1989, tends to smash the exposed points of soft point bullets in the magazine, particularly noticeable if I fire 2 or 3 rounds off the top of the stack. But it has never moved a bullet in it’s seating.

[Sako7mm]

15 hours ago, London Best said:

 

When I started reloading (1991) I asked a very experienced local RFD/riflesmith/bench rest expert to come to my house and give me a lesson. Obviously, he was very thorough and meticulous. Many on here may remember Brian Pybus?
He advised me that bullet crimping was totally unnecessary.

Certainly do remember him. I was at his funeral. 

[London Best]

9 hours ago, Sako7mm said:

Certainly do remember him. I was at his funeral. 

Unfortunately, I was unable to attend myself as I was in Africa.