Vince Green Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 On 07/10/2022 at 15:28, Scully said: Really? Got a link? Scully you have said before that you never click on links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Vince Green said: Scully you have said before that you never click on links It’s fine when you know there isn’t one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted October 14, 2022 Report Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 07/10/2022 at 12:09, Conor O'Gorman said: Following an evidence-led review carried out by BASC’s head of firearms, Martin Parker BASC is calling for a major overhaul Any statement which commences with... "following an evidence-led blah, blah..." .... anybody with a modicum of common sense knows that this is just..."blah, blah...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 16, 2022 Report Share Posted October 16, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 11:08, Conor O'Gorman said: It's strange what some do when faced with a problem. Firearms licensing is in chaos – blame BASC Some politicians threaten shooting – blame BASC A GP doesn't co-operate on medical verification – blame BASC BASC is there to fight for its members and shooting, but it isn't the government, it isn't the police and it's not the medical profession. What's the point of BASC and any other organisation? It's worth remembering what Judge Colin Bishopp said in his summing up at the First-tier Tribunal in a case which revolved around BASC's contribution to shooting: “In my judgment it is an inescapable conclusion that without its campaigning, advisory, educational and land management activities sporting shooting in the United Kingdom, in all its forms, would be of a materially poorer quality and in some cases might not exist at all.” BASC, and the other organisations, ensure that shooting has a voice in those areas that impact on shooting. That voice cannot dictate the outcome, but just imagine what it would be like with no voice at all. Specifically on firearms licensing, BASC: - Has the only full-time professional firearms team to advise and assist members - Is the only organisation to have monitored and reported on the performance of firearms licensing departments - for the last 25 years. - Has a programme of working with firearms licensing departments to improve their service - Has a programme of meeting PCCs and arguing for their intervention where licensing departments are failing - Briefs Ministers and MPs on the failings of the licensing system and what can be done to improve it. - Provides materials and the means for individuals to lobby their MPs and PCCs on firearms licensing, such as this latest PCC campaign webpage. - Has a fighting fund which takes up and fights firearms licensing cases where a principle is at stake which affects everyone who shoots. What does this achieve? In recent years it has contributed to: - A sensible fee structure equating to roughly a third of the sums that the police demanded in 2014 - Firearms enquiry officers trained in those departments prepared to work with BASC - Politicians and civil servants informed of the hard evidence – not just anecdotes – of the failures in firearms licensing. - PCCs lobbied and encouraged to intervene where services are failing. - Representation – with BSSC - for shooting on the current Home Office firearms fees working group - The defeat of the proposed ban on .50 cal through the work of the All Party Parliamentary Group on Shooting for which BASC provides the secretariat and briefing. - The ability to use any registered medical practitioner for medical verification when the government wanted to limit it to GPs only - The defeat of damaging proposals on firearms storage, home loading, ammunition purchase and the use of airguns by 14 year olds in the recent firearms safety consultation. We all want more, and BASC is working for that, but we can't deliver everything everyone wants at the time they want it. And don't think that BASC staff don't have just the same problems with firearms licensing services as everyone else. By being a BASC member, and particularly an active member, you contribute to this work. By opting out, only paying the minimum for insurance and nothing else, you still benefit from BASC’s work without contributing. You decide what's the best choice for the future of shooting. The following BASC firearms licensing campaign page is open to all to use https://basc.org.uk/firearms-licensing-contact-your-police-and-crime-commissioner/ In my judgment it is an inescapable conclusion that without BASC's campaigning, the shooting fraternity would be better off. How can you even carry on pretending that your employers are on the side of the majority of shooters? You sold us down the river and still you have the bare faced cheek to carry on riding the gravy train and peddling the lies........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 Well said, Jim Neal. Just remember that for COG and that ilk - it is a job, pays their bills, and they do and say what they are told to do - just cogs in the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 On 16/10/2022 at 01:26, Jim Neal said: In my judgment it is an inescapable conclusion that without BASC's campaigning, the shooting fraternity would be better off. How can you even carry on pretending that your employers are on the side of the majority of shooters? You sold us down the river and still you have the bare faced cheek to carry on riding the gravy train and peddling the lies........ 23 hours ago, harkom said: Well said, Jim Neal. Just remember that for COG and that ilk - it is a job, pays their bills, and they do and say what they are told to do - just cogs in the wheel. Suggest a read of BASC's 2021 annual review to gain an understanding and appreciation of the wide scope of BASC's work to protect and promote shooting. https://basc.org.uk/basc-annual-review/ Also suggest signing up to BASC's weekly e-newsletter, which is open to non-members, to read about the Association's work, day in day out, on shooting and conservation. https://basc.org.uk/basc-live/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Suggest a read of BASC's 2021 annual review to gain an understanding and appreciation of the wide scope of BASC's work to protect and promote shooting. https://basc.org.uk/basc-annual-review/ Also suggest signing up to BASC's weekly e-newsletter, which is open to non-members, to read about the Association's work, day in day out, on shooting and conservation. https://basc.org.uk/basc-live/ This On 16/10/2022 at 01:26, Jim Neal said: In my judgment it is an inescapable conclusion that without BASC's campaigning, the shooting fraternity would be better off. How can you even carry on pretending that your employers are on the side of the majority of shooters? You sold us down the river and still you have the bare faced cheek to carry on riding the gravy train and peddling the lies........ Really ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 7 hours ago, jall25 said: This is complete and utter testicles Really ? Absolutely. The sooner the masses wake up and stop filling the BASC feeding trough the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 12 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Suggest a read of BASC's 2021 annual review to gain an understanding and appreciation of the wide scope of BASC's work to protect and promote shooting. https://basc.org.uk/basc-annual-review/ Also suggest signing up to BASC's weekly e-newsletter, which is open to non-members, to read about the Association's work, day in day out, on shooting and conservation. https://basc.org.uk/basc-live/ You can fling all the propaganda in the world at us but we just don't buy it. Your self-serving organisation has shoved a big fat 12 inch black mamba up the backside of the majority of shooters. I don't know how you've even got the gall to carry on posting. If Putin does press the big red button, let's hope the first one is heading for somewhere near Wrexham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) Having looked at the BASC Annual Review, there’s a lot of talk about working with politicians, the police and bio diversity. All jolly good, but I don’t think that’s a good enough return on its fees and the promises it makes to look out for shooters. Members want to see real help, so the lead ban, police not processing firearms applications, grouse moor bans, Packham getting away with murder, etc. are all day-to-day matters that affect its members. I can’t help but think we have too many shooting organisations that now benefit the staff. A single, aggressively-led group, in the style of the USA NRA, would have people tripping over themselves to join up. The UK BASC - not so much. Edited October 19, 2022 by Flashman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Jim Neal said: You can fling all the propaganda in the world at us but we just don't buy it. Your self-serving organisation has shoved a big fat 12 inch black mamba up the backside of the majority of shooters. I don't know how you've even got the gall to carry on posting. If Putin does press the big red button, let's hope the first one is heading for somewhere near Wrexham. Are you alright ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 9 hours ago, Flashman said: I can’t help but think we have too many shooting organisations that now benefit the staff. Spot on.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 17 hours ago, jall25 said: Are you alright ? If you're finding it hard to believe that someone may take exception to the way in which BASC have conducted themselves these last few years, maybe you need to have a bit more of a deep think about what they've done to the average shooting man. Think about how BASC's self-perception has changed from back in the WAGBI days. They used to be eager to represent the wide-ranging demographic of your average shooting man, they listened, they served their membership, as per the mission statement. But now BASC seem to have decided that they, and they alone, "run" shooting in the UK and can just crack on regardless making decisions on everyone else's behalf without even consulting their membership over something as monumentally significant as phasing out lead ammunition. It's the arrogance I can't stand. Well, that and the deception, and of course the lies. Anyone who stands beside them is extremely blinkered or brainwashed in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 4 hours ago, Jim Neal said: If you're finding it hard to believe that someone may take exception to the way in which BASC have conducted themselves these last few years, maybe you need to have a bit more of a deep think about what they've done to the average shooting man. Think about how BASC's self-perception has changed from back in the WAGBI days. They used to be eager to represent the wide-ranging demographic of your average shooting man, they listened, they served their membership, as per the mission statement. But now BASC seem to have decided that they, and they alone, "run" shooting in the UK and can just crack on regardless making decisions on everyone else's behalf without even consulting their membership over something as monumentally significant as phasing out lead ammunition. It's the arrogance I can't stand. Well, that and the deception, and of course the lies. Anyone who stands beside them is extremely blinkered or brainwashed in my opinion. As i said - are you alright ? Have a read of what you write first before you press post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 I have been a member of most UK shooting organisations at one time or another, including one or two which no longer exist, in the belief I was doing my bit to support UK shooting. Over the years I’ve become increasingly disappointed and disillusioned with all of them, with perhaps the exception of the GWCT. That disappointment is based on what we once had and what we have since lost, and started ( for me ) with BASC’s reluctance to stick its head above the parapet following Dunblane, adopting the ‘keep a low profile’ policy lest it be tarred with the rest of us ‘psychos.’ I fought a lone campaign with the HO, my MP at the time and had an article featured in the national press, and was interviewed on local BBC radio. BASC weren’t interested throughout. I think the last straw for me was a meeting I attended presented by Swift at the Shepherds Inn in Carlisle where he basically tied himself in knots trying to defend a proposed lead shot ban for wildfowl. Then followed a long conversation with Mike Eveleigh during which he confessed medical record checks were coming ‘ and there’s nothing we can do about it’, but informed me shooters would receive 10 year tickets as a result. I joined the NGO, formed incidentally by a break away group of BASC members who felt disillusioned and disappointed with their representation ….sound familiar? NGO stopped answering my emails and phone calls after some years of membership following me badgering them about the recent proposed lead shot ban. There are three kids in the village whom I’ve urged to apply for their SGC’s, but they can’t because Cumbria have now decided they ( along with several other licensing authorities ) will no longer be issuing grants for the foreseeable. How on Earth can a public service body withdraw a service like this? Renewals and variations incidenatally, according to a keeper friend who has just part-exed his S1 work tool for another, could be six months if not longer, but because he needs it for work was informed ‘ if you don’t hear anything after a month, let us know’. How does that work then? 🤔 Anyhow, we are where we are. Despite genuinely feeling we would be in an even worse situation without our shooting orgs, I refuse to fund them until I see something improving. BASC may claim to be the ‘voice of shooting’, but I can’t hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 Tell me Conor, do BASC still provide courtesy driven days for some MP's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 36 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: Tell me Conor, do BASC still provide courtesy driven days for some MP's ? You write this as though that would be a bad thing Bruno ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 45 minutes ago, jall25 said: You write this as though that would be a bad thing Bruno ? It would be if it was the same MP's every year, and MP's who have been shooting all their lives, what would the point be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: It would be if it was the same MP's every year, and MP's who have been shooting all their lives, what would the point be? There are people who have been shooting all their lives but have never done a thing to help shooting, perhaps the carrot of a days driven shooting for these MP’s helps focus their minds on supporting shooting in the right places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 33 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: It would be if it was the same MP's every year, and MP's who have been shooting all their lives, what would the point be? Old un beat me to it One friend two friends three friends - its all positive surely you can see that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, jall25 said: Old un beat me to it One friend two friends three friends - its all positive surely you can see that ? You would never have been a gunslinger. the knob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 1 minute ago, old'un said: You would never have been a gunslinger. the knob. You might have missed with your eye sight old un ! Lol ! Good memory mind ! Hope you are well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, jall25 said: You might have missed with your eye sight old un ! Lol ! Good memory mind ! Hope you are well Yes, its scarred for life, but I will get over it in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 57 minutes ago, jall25 said: Old un beat me to it One friend two friends three friends - its all positive surely you can see that ? How has that worked out I wonder? Free days to people that already shoot is pointless, same faces every year I'm willing to bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: How has that worked out I wonder? Free days to people that already shoot is pointless, same faces every year I'm willing to bet. Its called networking Bruno - its a large part of what makes the world go round like it or not Better to have "friends" with benefits than enemies Do you ever engage with your MP ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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