Outstanding .410 Pattern

[Fargo]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Yes, I know Fourlongs are fibre, but rarely, if ever nowadays available in No.7. 
I find them pretty useless in 7/16 ounce (12.5 gram) No.5 after little more than 20+ yards. The load contains only about 97 pellets. Compare that to the 195 I have counted in a 14 gram Trap 7 1/2 and the effective pattern difference becomes obvious.  
I cannot shoot the 18/19/20 loads as I do not have a three inch .410 magnum, just game guns both made in 1902.

edited : sorry, my bad. Edited to read 195 not 295. 
My fingers like a cow’s udder hit 2 not 1.

Yes but any size is ok for 5-15 yard shots.

For driven I’d use 18g 6 etc

The Express 14g 7 prob perfect load .

Ladds in Devon have some 24g Cheddite .410 7.5’s

[London Best]

8 minutes ago, Fargo said:

 

For driven I’d use 18g 6 etc

The Express 14g 7 prob perfect load .

Ladds in Devon have some 24g Cheddite .410 7.5’s

As I said, I can’t use 18 gram three inch.

Express 14 gram 7 always worked for me.

I know a clay ground where the instructors, when teaching youngsters, use 3 inch .410 with 24 gram subsonic loads. Dunno what make they are.

[Fargo]

[Ultrastu]

I've shot those bornaghi carts above .and they are amazingly quiet out of my hushpower .but unfortunately  don't kill past 15 yds  this is due to the silly slow speeds achieved  .

[London Best]

10 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

I've shot those bornaghi carts above .and they are amazingly quiet out of my hushpower .but unfortunately  don't kill past 15 yds  this is due to the silly slow speeds achieved  .

I bet you wouldn’t want to stand in front of one at 15 yards!

[Ultrastu]

59 minutes ago, London Best said:

I bet you wouldn’t want to stand in front of one at 15 yards!

Well that's a daft thing to say .

I wouldn't die if that's what your asking.? 

 

[London Best]

I was merely questioning your statement that those cartridges were ineffective past 15 yards. With 24 grams of 7 1/2, however slow, I doubt that very much. 
I have to say I have never used them, but have shot a lot of stuff with .410’s.

[Walker570]

As most of you know I have shot 410 exclusively for the last 6-7yrs at mainly game birds but occasionally at pigeon.  I have shot a fair range of factory but in the last 5 seasons have shot my own reloads.  18.7g of #7s a full 19g just will not allow a nice crimp closure but the birds don't seem to mind.   Initially because of my long association with 410s I have shot full and full but talking with Richard Gray, Premier Game Days  another 410 user he was using about 1/2 choke and I had seen him drop some impressive birds. This last season I put the #3 tubes in my Yilditz which would be just above 1/2 and must say the result was mmore than adequate as the last shot on the last drive of my last day this season gone proved, killing a cock pheasant stone dead at what everyone said must have been 40yrds. I'm not one for getting out the gauges and measuring , just judge on results. Not bragging by any means but not much flies by my 410 within 40yrds without  a result.

A bad day, I blame myself not my tools.

I have done a number of pattern tests and the Yilditz chokes give good adequate patterns across the range so don't see the need for buying some fancy stuff.

[Ultrastu]

Walker do you find a significant  difference between chokes in .410 cal .

I was having a play the other day swapping out chokes and thought that there was very little between even cylinder 5 ""'  and full '   possibly half "' was the tightest  with the carts I was using .

 

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Walker do you find a significant  difference between chokes in .410 cal .

I was having a play the other day swapping out chokes and thought that there was very little between even cylinder 5 ""'  and full '   possibly half "' was the tightest  with the carts I was using .

 

As I have posted previously, with the 410 especially, it is definitely worth measuring and patterning each choke tube.

My OU (Khan Arms\Revo) patterns best with 15 thou of choke (light mod). Above or below this, the pattern is poorer.

Cartridge choice shifts the percentages up or down depending on the quality but the order of ability of the chokes tends to stay the same.

 

[Walker570]

5 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Walker do you find a significant  difference between chokes in .410 cal .

I was having a play the other day swapping out chokes and thought that there was very little between even cylinder 5 ""'  and full '   possibly half "' was the tightest  with the carts I was using .

 

As said I have only put the full choke on the pattern plate> had a friend come and take a shot or two on the pattern plate and his 410 shot a far wider pattern than mine.  I believe the #3 choke I am now using maybe gives about 3 inches wider  coverage thats all  IN MY SHOTGUN and I say this because particuolarly in 410s you need to pattern yourt own gun as they all seem to differ.  Find a cartridge and shot size your gun likes and stick with it and that is where reloading helps. 

Commercially the cartridge I favour is the Fiocchi 7s and I buy a slab now and then to supply cases as I only fire a reloaded case once as I have seen too many cases break up when loaded too many times.

[sutty2006]

Glad I’m not the only one that’s had issues with lylevale cartridges separating the brass from the plastic. Glad it wasn’t the shotgun at fault, I replaced the ejector and spring which made no difference. **** cartridges it was! 

[London Best]

3 minutes ago, sutty2006 said:

Glad I’m not the only one that’s had issues with lylevale cartridges separating the brass from the plastic. Glad it wasn’t the shotgun at fault, I replaced the ejector and spring which made no difference. **** cartridges it was! 

Used thousands. 
Never had that problem.

 

edit: yet!

Edited May 9, 2023 by London Best

[snarepeg]

Useing a Remington semi auto 1100 in 410, half choke.

fussy on cartridges, got to have the umph to recoil it, but reload my own and no problems on that.

have had cases part, mainly gamebore, the odd Winchester(after about a dozen reloads) 

loading 14 grain LiL gun to 1/2 ounce 7.5 and happy with performance, no felt recoil, little noise and cheap. 

Everyone should have a 410, (and save me your empties😊👍🇬🇧)

[Old farrier]

23 minutes ago, sutty2006 said:

Glad I’m not the only one that’s had issues with lylevale cartridges separating the brass from the plastic. Glad it wasn’t the shotgun at fault, I replaced the ejector and spring which made no difference. **** cartridges it was! 

Did you take them back?

[sutty2006]

29 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Did you take them back?

No, should I have? They fired ok (apart from 3 out of 25 would hang fire, striking the cap but not firing) of every box I used (6x 25) but it was getting to a point where every other cartridge was separated when attempting to eject. 
 

it’s weird how some make of cartridges i have a lot of issues, and some don’t at all! 

[Fargo]

18 minutes ago, sutty2006 said:

No, should I have? They fired ok (apart from 3 out of 25 would hang fire, striking the cap but not firing) of every box I used (6x 25) but it was getting to a point where every other cartridge was separated when attempting to eject. 
 

it’s weird how some make of cartridges i have a lot of issues, and some don’t at all! 

I had the same with Express years ago when and only when using a Hushpower pump

[Centrepin]

1 hour ago, snarepeg said:

 

Everyone should have a 410, (and save me your empties😊👍🇬🇧)

As you're only an hour away from me do you want me to start saving Fiocchi 3" empties and do you want any other sizes? I've just bought two mixed slabs of 2", 2 1/2" and 3" some Fiocchi but also Gamebore, Hull and Lyalvale. I don't reload and just bin the empties.

[Old farrier]

49 minutes ago, sutty2006 said:

No, should I have? They fired ok (apart from 3 out of 25 would hang fire, striking the cap but not firing) of every box I used (6x 25) but it was getting to a point where every other cartridge was separated when attempting to eject. 
 

it’s weird how some make of cartridges i have a lot of issues, and some don’t at all! 

If you don’t take them back then the manufacturer won’t know the problem exists and can do nothing to resolve the issue I’m sure they don’t want bad reviews and unless you have informed them through the retailer or directly a tad one sided 

first port of call the supplier and ask them to return to manufacture and replace them with a different batch 

they make millions of cartridges so bound to have the occasional issue with the components they use 

 

[snarepeg]

21 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

As you're only an hour away from me do you want me to start saving Fiocchi 3" empties and do you want any other sizes? I've just bought two mixed slabs of 2", 2 1/2" and 3" some Fiocchi but also Gamebore, Hull and Lyalvale. I don't reload and just bin the empties.

Yes please, Fiochi load well, I test the swelling of them before reloading as some  won't chamber, thanks. John

[sutty2006]

39 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

If you don’t take them back then the manufacturer won’t know the problem exists and can do nothing to resolve the issue I’m sure they don’t want bad reviews and unless you have informed them through the retailer or directly a tad one sided 

first port of call the supplier and ask them to return to manufacture and replace them with a different batch 

they make millions of cartridges so bound to have the occasional issue with the components they use 

 

If I have future issues I’ll remember that, thanks. At first I thought it was my shotgun at fault but turns out it isn’t. 
 

@snarepeg where are you? If you’re not far away I couldn’t start saving mine for you. 
 

a chap I know loads his own ammunition, I’d like a go at it myself but it’s something new to learn and I don’t have the time currently! One day I’ll look into it. 

[snarepeg]

47 minutes ago, sutty2006 said:

If I have future issues I’ll remember that, thanks. At first I thought it was my shotgun at fault but turns out it isn’t. 
 

@snarepeg where are you? If you’re not far away I couldn’t start saving mine for you. 
 

a chap I know loads his own ammunition, I’d like a go at it myself but it’s something new to learn and I don’t have the time currently! One day I’ll look into it. 

Doncaster, great saving, a bit Time consuming but interesting👍😊🇬🇧

[sutty2006]

7 minutes ago, snarepeg said:

Doncaster, great saving, a bit Time consuming but interesting👍😊🇬🇧

Yeah I’m a bit far south to drop them off. Could always post them haha. Are there any guides on here to making own cartridges. They’re £10-14 a box round here. Save a little bit buying a slab. 

[wymberley]

On 08/05/2023 at 09:43, London Best said:

I bet you wouldn’t want to stand in front of one at 15 yards!

I have no idea of the muzzle velocity here but can't imagine it being much less than 1000ft/sec in which case there's enough poke at the recognised level to kill a cock pheasant at 20 yards

[Stonepark]

23 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I have no idea of the muzzle velocity here but can't imagine it being much less than 1000ft/sec in which case there's enough poke at the recognised level to kill a cock pheasant at 20 yards

Looking at the cartridge loaded, I suspect more like 800ftsec which is what Cheddites 24g version goes out at.

 

My 21g home loads with 13.5gr of powder come up over the brass with a couple of mm to the OPC, and go out supersonic on warms days and subsonic on cold days (1070ftsec) whilst the Cheddite\Bornaghi 24g "wad" bottom sits below the brass and has to propel another 3g and stay under pressure.