One for the trialing people

[B725]

I watch the spaniel trials on YouTube and never is the dog asked to sit and wait to deliver the shot game. It is I believe because there is nothing in the rules to say so and they don't want the dog to drop it. For me it's a complete retrieve if the dog sits for a few moments then delivers it. 

[London Best]

14 minutes ago, B725 said:

I watch the spaniel trials on YouTube and never is the dog asked to sit and wait to deliver the shot game. It is I believe because there is nothing in the rules to say so and they don't want the dog to drop it. For me it's a complete retrieve if the dog sits for a few moments then delivers it. 

In the real world, when picking up you simply do not have time to fanny about like that. 

[Lloyd90]

It’s primarily a hunting competition, a good delivery will be credited in the J Reg’s but the vast majority of the time the judge isn’t looking for the dog that sits on delivery they’re looking for the dog that’s absolutely tearing up the ground cos it’s such a brilliant hunter. 
 

Inagine the most ferocious hunting dog comes second to a dog that’s not hunting anywhere near as hard but sits when it delivers 🤷‍♂️

 

Ideally the dog would do it all but there’s always a bit of give and take 🤪 

 

Here’s a nice pic of Ted doing a nice sitting present of a partridge during a training day just for fun 🤣

[Dave at kelton]

Lloyd has added the trialling experience and London Best the practical answer but I would like to add a few points. 

Training dogs for over forty years I find that putting pressure on for a sitting delivery is just too much for some dogs. Secondly,  as I am working a team of dogs all coming back with birds the last thing I want is them sitting around me. Lastly when I am on the side of a steep hill it’s just dangerous having them coming in and plonking themselves in front of me.

So for practical reasons I tend not to teach it.

Yes it looks really stylish but….

[Old farrier]

50 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

Lloyd has added the trialling experience and London Best the practical answer but I would like to add a few points. 

Training dogs for over forty years I find that putting pressure on for a sitting delivery is just too much for some dogs. Secondly,  as I am working a team of dogs all coming back with birds the last thing I want is them sitting around me. Lastly when I am on the side of a steep hill it’s just dangerous having them coming in and plonking themselves in front of me.

So for practical reasons I tend not to teach it.

Yes it looks really stylish but….

This ^^^^^

i like my dogs to come in and up behind me and just nudge my left hand with the bird/fur not everybody wants this but it works for me 

it’s a lot of pressure on a dog to return with a retrieve and sit to present it although I’ve had a few that have done it naturally and accepted their way 

to me it’s more important to hold the bird until asked to release it 

[B725]

I can understand from both side's but what about letting the dog's run in as I don't like to see that, I've seen some dog's that I was told were amazing but just ran in to everything. 

As I only have one dog I'm just trying to get the best dog I can, tomorrow is Tom's first day out shooting part walked up part driven I am hoping he will do as I want concidering the hour's I've done with his training, I will put up a warts and all post of his day. 

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, B725 said:

I can understand from both side's but what about letting the dog's run in as I don't like to see that, I've seen some dog's that I was told were amazing but just ran in to everything. 

As I only have one dog I'm just trying to get the best dog I can, tomorrow is Tom's first day out shooting part walked up part driven I am hoping he will do as I want concidering the hour's I've done with his training, I will put up a warts and all post of his day. 

Running in is dangerous especially if you’re walking up some ground and unacceptable if you’re on the peg 

If it’s your first day leave the gun behind and be prepared to only do half a day 

at the end of the day tomorrow you will know why I said that 

have a good day and enjoy the experience 

[B725]

It's not the first dog I've trained and I've never taken a dog out until I think it's ready, he drops to shot perfectly and to flush also stops first time on the whistle and dosnt run in.

The day is only a small one with like minded people there will be no pressure to perform as there isn't too much  game. 

Ironically his litter sister has already run in a trial,his breeder came over to see him a couple of weeks ago and was extremely pleased with how he is,if I think it's becoming too much he will go back in the car.

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, B725 said:

I can understand from both side's but what about letting the dog's run in as I don't like to see that, I've seen some dog's that I was told were amazing but just ran in to everything. 

As I only have one dog I'm just trying to get the best dog I can, tomorrow is Tom's first day out shooting part walked up part driven I am hoping he will do as I want concidering the hour's I've done with his training, I will put up a warts and all post of his day. 

Good luck, I just found it very frustrating taking mine onto those sort of shoots, mine was stopping to flush and shot and waiting whilst the other dogs ran in running past him on flush and shot. 
 

End up with a frustrated dog, who never got a retrieve and a frustrated owner!! 
 

Hope your day goes well tomorrow, try and keep a bit of distance from the offenders. 

[B725]

To be fair Lloyd they will do as I want once I explain what I am wanting, if I send him for a retrieve and a dog runs in he will stop and come back as all my dog's have. If I call for a retrieve they will just hold the dog's back and let me send him plus I don't want him to retrieve everything just the odd one. 

[Old farrier]

22 minutes ago, B725 said:

It's not the first dog I've trained and I've never taken a dog out until I think it's ready, he drops to shot perfectly and to flush also stops first time on the whistle and dosnt run in.

The day is only a small one with like minded people there will be no pressure to perform as there isn't too much  game. 

Ironically his litter sister has already run in a trial,his breeder came over to see him a couple of weeks ago and was extremely pleased with how he is,if I think it's becoming too much he will go back in the car.

Sorry didn’t realise you had trained a lot of dogs by the questions I thought you were a novice 

crack on have a good day 👍

[Lloyd90]

32 minutes ago, B725 said:

To be fair Lloyd they will do as I want once I explain what I am wanting, if I send him for a retrieve and a dog runs in he will stop and come back as all my dog's have. If I call for a retrieve they will just hold the dog's back and let me send him plus I don't want him to retrieve everything just the odd one. 

You've got a good little syndicate there ... the one's I've been on not one of them would be able to 'hold the dog back'... once the dog decided he was off to get the bird there was no stopping them  ... mind you the other's never seemed bothered and always proclaimed what a good retrieve it was. 

[B725]

54 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Sorry didn’t realise you had trained a lot of dogs by the questions I thought you were a novice 

crack on have a good day 👍

Sorry if I gave that impression, I love watching the spaniels work and it's something I had noticed when watching the trialing videos, I've only ever been to one trial and had the job as the game carrier so I could watch at the sharp end and I didn't pick the winner.

Tomorrow will not be too long a day 2 or 3 hours in the morning and a couple of hours in the afternoon. 

One of the shoots I have been beating on can be very long day's and some of the lad's keep saying get the dog out but I have refused as he needs these smaller day's first. 

39 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

You've got a good little syndicate there ... the one's I've been on not one of them would be able to 'hold the dog back'... once the dog decided he was off to get the bird there was no stopping them  ... mind you the other's never seemed bothered and always proclaimed what a good retrieve it was. 

There is only 10 people and 3 of them just go for the beating and everyone gets on really well, for sure there's a lot of mickey taking but everyone tries to make sure it's an enjoyable day. 

[WalkedUp]

Enjoy the day 👍

[Krico woodcock]

What age is your dog b725. Just curious?? 

[B725]

5 hours ago, Krico woodcock said:

What age is your dog b725. Just curious?? 

14 months next week 

[semi-auto]

Merlin had his first day at a shoot last week. The keeper had invited me to bring Merlin in order to give the dog an experience of what a shoot is like. It was a small informal day with a number of dogs and children running loose. I kept him on the lead, because I know he enjoys playing with other dogs and didn't want to upset anyone. I took my place well behind the guns and waited. Nothing for Merlin to pick up for the first drive and then on the second a pheasant dropped behind a gun and he didn't have a dog. When the drive finished I sent Merlin. He headed off in a totally different direction to investigate a cocker walking down the hedge. I whistled him up and tried again. With a couple of stops he took direction and found the pheasant. He wagged his tail furiously, sniffed the bird and ran back to me with a puzzled look on his face. Failure! All those training sessions and this was the result, although to be fair he had never retrieved a pheasant before. I was gutted. I picked the bird and let him have a sniff. Nothing on the third drive. We came to the last drive and I stood well back from the guns with a hedge some 100 yards behind me. Merlin sat beautifully, and avidly watched a gun's Setter pick and retrieve a bird. A high cock came over and was dropped behind me. I thought the bird dead in the air, but when I turned to look for it there was nothing to be seen. I walked back to within forty yards of the hedge. After a few minutes at the sit, Merlin became fidgety and kept looking behind him and then at me. I let him off the lead and sent him to the hedge. After a few minutes he reappeared and jumped the ditch with a cock in his mouth. He brought it to me and sat beautifully, despite the cock's struggles. I took the pheasant from him and dispatched it. I could not have been prouder. I now hope he's got the taste for it.  

[B725]

What dog is Merlin and how old is it.Glad it went reasonably well for you, you may find it better for the dog if you use cold game a few times, drop it in long grass or just inside a hedge but nothing too difficult at first .

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, semi-auto said:

Merlin had his first day at a shoot last week. The keeper had invited me to bring Merlin in order to give the dog an experience of what a shoot is like. It was a small informal day with a number of dogs and children running loose. I kept him on the lead, because I know he enjoys playing with other dogs and didn't want to upset anyone. I took my place well behind the guns and waited. Nothing for Merlin to pick up for the first drive and then on the second a pheasant dropped behind a gun and he didn't have a dog. When the drive finished I sent Merlin. He headed off in a totally different direction to investigate a cocker walking down the hedge. I whistled him up and tried again. With a couple of stops he took direction and found the pheasant. He wagged his tail furiously, sniffed the bird and ran back to me with a puzzled look on his face. Failure! All those training sessions and this was the result, although to be fair he had never retrieved a pheasant before. I was gutted. I picked the bird and let him have a sniff. Nothing on the third drive. We came to the last drive and I stood well back from the guns with a hedge some 100 yards behind me. Merlin sat beautifully, and avidly watched a gun's Setter pick and retrieve a bird. A high cock came over and was dropped behind me. I thought the bird dead in the air, but when I turned to look for it there was nothing to be seen. I walked back to within forty yards of the hedge. After a few minutes at the sit, Merlin became fidgety and kept looking behind him and then at me. I let him off the lead and sent him to the hedge. After a few minutes he reappeared and jumped the ditch with a cock in his mouth. He brought it to me and sat beautifully, despite the cock's struggles. I took the pheasant from him and dispatched it. I could not have been prouder. I now hope he's got the taste for it.  

Don't be disheartened, keep goingband he'll soon understand the game and what he needs to do, just keep building it up in simple stages 👍

[semi-auto]

B725 - Merlin is a two year old lab. I got him at eight months and nothing had been done with him up to that point. He is somewhat immature and can, at times be quite puppyish.

[Dave at kelton]

6 hours ago, semi-auto said:

B725 - Merlin is a two year old lab. I got him at eight months and nothing had been done with him up to that point. He is somewhat immature and can, at times be quite puppyish.

At two he is still pretty immature. Don’t do too much more with him than you are. When next season arrives you will see a big difference as he matures. Sounds as if you are doing a great job.

[Krico woodcock]

At 2 or 2 and half, I personally would expect a dog to be working to a good standard. But I'm not a trailing man,  have never been to a field trial. But for every day shooting dog I would expect he/ she to be working. I would expect them hunting cover well, and retrieving should be no problem at that stage.. usually its 1 1/2 old first season. Big learning curve,  but usually I know how dog will turn out at that stage.. 21/2 second season  he/ she gets crowned. 31/2 3rd season, solid dog.. as long as they are  a good honest hard working dog, I'm happy with them.  Things like sitting down in front of me with a retrieve wouldn't come into it. And definitely not sitting/ dropping to shot,  and be being told to retrieve .. so it's horses for courses. And what you want out of your dog. But to have a good dog, you need to give them plenty of work.