Wild Justice/Chris Packham Woodcock Petition

[Scully]

15 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

So.. to take this a little further then, do you think there would be more if we release less pheasants on the whole or what are here would be more widespread. So seem less, but actually more 

I honestly have no idea, sorry. Our little syndicate is arable/dairy farmland, consisting of very heavy land on exposed Westmorland moor land over 150 acres.  We have several woods, only one of which I would describe as warm, and no cover crops, 
The BIG shoot is at the base of the Fells. It has everything from moorland to thick dark ( even in daylight ) warm coniferous woods as well as streams, gulleys, open moors and acres and acres of cover crops. I forget how big the estate is but it’s huge. 

[London Best]

I don’t think the number of pheasants released influences Woodcock numbers. I say this because our local BIG shoot (seriously big) never releases less than eighty thousand birds, sometimes a hundred thousand, and it is crawling with Woodcock everywhere. I have never seen so many anywhere else. The estate extends to some sixteen thousand acres of mixed arable, grassland and woodland.

[JohnfromUK]

I haven't shot woodcock for many years now.  A personal choice.  The (small) farm shoot I am with don't allow woodcock to be shot now (used to be allowed, but not for about 5 or 6 years now).

As regards the 'disturbance' factor - my own suggestion would be that the benefits of vermin control would probably make up for possible disturbance.  Locally, the shoot 'usage' has varied a lot over the years (say 40 years in my memory) from a fully keepered 'big' shoot (25-30 days a year) to minor rough shooting 3 days a year.  Woodcock seem to vary quite a bit from one year to another, but long term are still around in much the same numbers I think.  This despite the fact that public footfall has hugely increased in the last 10 years or so, with the coming of mountain bikes and whereas in my youth 50 years ago one could walk and not see another person, now on the same route I often see 10 - 20 other people.  'Walkable' (and we have quite a few 'permissive paths') grass and arable land is MUCH busier than it used to be, with both the mountain bikers and dog walkers.  People not keeping to the permissive paths is becoming a major problem, and one estate that has opened quite a number of permissive paths is having serious thoughts about whether it was wise and even considering withdrawing some. 

[Fellside]

20 hours ago, 8 shot said:

So.. to take this a little further then, do you think there would be more if we release less pheasants on the whole or what are here would be more widespread. So seem less, but actually more 

The UK breeding pairs (which is what all the fuss is about) have either bread well or not before the pheasant poults are released from pens. Poult numbers aren’t really a factor. The winter migrants may be disturbed by high densities - but are well adapted to disturbance and can look after themselves pretty well. It’s also worth bearing in mind, that they often don’t even need to roost in woods. If the weather is mild they will choose to roost in long grass or rushy ground. I have often bumped them up in rough open areas. As mentioned above, predation is a much bigger problem. 

[8 shot]

3 hours ago, Fellside said:

As mentioned above, predation is a much bigger problem.

What is the  Woodcock's main predator ?

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

What is the  Woodcock's main predator ?

From BASC site:

"During the day, a woodcock’s main predators are birds of prey. Creating woodland with good overhead cover is therefore key to reducing woodcock mortality during the day.

At night, when woodcock head into fields to feed, they are more at risk of predation, not only by owls, but by ground-dwelling predators such as foxes and feral cats. As well as creating good cover for woodcock, staying on top of fox numbers will also help to reduce woodcock mortality."

[jall25]

On 02/01/2023 at 20:39, London Best said:

I don’t think the number of pheasants released influences Woodcock numbers. I say this because our local BIG shoot (seriously big) never releases less than eighty thousand birds, sometimes a hundred thousand, and it is crawling with Woodcock everywhere. I have never seen so many anywhere else. The estate extends to some sixteen thousand acres of mixed arable, grassland and woodland.

I agree - our little shoot 300 acres has create cover and we see a few dozen a season in the midlands - we put down a couple of thousand birds

I used to shoot in Lincolnshire on a big estate and one wood they had called the Block was absolutely teaming with pheasants ... and woodcock.

I have also seen the same on some of the big shoots in Scotland

Edited January 3, 2023 by jall25

[Fellside]

4 hours ago, 8 shot said:

What is the  Woodcock's main predator ?

Just about everything puts woodcock on the menu really. I have heard it said that foxes are fairly efficient in finding them at night - as with any ground birds. 

[Rim Fire]

There are more woodcock about than you think i see quite a few at night with the Thermal spotter where you don't see them in day time 

[jall25]

5 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

There are more woodcock about than you think i see quite a few at night with the Thermal spotter where you don't see them in day time 

Yes this is so true - thermal really does help you see the unseen 

[Agriv8]

Still see at least 2 or 3 on our  very small syndicate most guns will choose to watch them go past some guns will raise a gun ! Very few of those will connect ! but they are usually taken by one of the guns. After reading the above active fox control is likley to be assisting but I suspect our large population of red kites may also be hindering further population increases. 
 

we also see good curlew numbers and partridge which are a regular at feeding time . Though not released by us !

Agriv8