BASC calls for independent regulatory body for firearms licensing

[GHE]

On 19/01/2023 at 19:04, Dave at kelton said:

Everyone has not grasped the point or there would not have been comments about farming out to G4S. This about making those forces that are patently not performing accountable which on face they are not. From previous experience Thames Valley were woeful but Police Scotland great. There have been enough posts on here over the last few years bemoaning poor service but when BASC try to improve it they are lambasted.

There should one high standard across all forces and as I see it that is what BASC are attempting to achieve, which I for one applaud.

So let me guess - BASC thinks that the ideal oversight authority should be . . .  BASC?

[Newbie to this]

4 hours ago, GHE said:

So let me guess - BASC thinks that the ideal oversight authority should be . . .  BASC?

Let's just pray that it isn't G4S.

[Yellow Bear]

4 hours ago, GHE said:

So let me guess - BASC thinks that the ideal oversight authority should be . . .  BASC?

No chance --  The Woke and lefty's would immediately claim "conflict of interest"

[Gordon R]

It would be simpler if Chief Constables got their act together and earned their salary. The disparity in service is down to their management. Why does it need yet another layer of bureaucracy to get them to do their job? It will either cost far more in licence fees or resources taken away from other policing areas.

[Dave at kelton]

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

No chance --  The Woke and lefty's would immediately claim "conflict of interest"

And quite rightly so. Has to be independent.

[GHE]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

It would be simpler if Chief Constables got their act together and earned their salary. The disparity in service is down to their management. Why does it need yet another layer of bureaucracy to get them to do their job? It will either cost far more in licence fees or resources taken away from other policing areas.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

No chance --  The Woke and lefty's would immediately claim "conflict of interest"

My comment was tongue in cheek, I certainly don't suggest BASC would be a good choice

9 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

And quite rightly so. Has to be independent.

I agree. I wouldn't want an organisation that supports the government at every opportunity, that supported airgun licensing in Scotland and that thinks that lead shot should be banned.

 

 

[harkom]

On 18/01/2023 at 15:37, Conor O'Gorman said:

A largely unprofessional, overburdened and poorly resourced police licensing service puts public safety at risk.”

The only part of bsac aspersion that government will pay heed is the "under resourced" bit. Do not need crystal ball to forecast that the increased funding will then have to come from those who require certificates.

Another shot in the foot from bs&co ....( yep, just remember their stance on nil fee GP endorsement for applicants and renewals ).

[Conor O'Gorman]

3 hours ago, GHE said:

I agree. I wouldn't want an organisation that supports the government at every opportunity, that supported airgun licensing in Scotland and that thinks that lead shot should be banned.

That's not true.

BASC opposed and campaigned against the proposals for airgun licensing in Scotland from the first proposals in 2012 onwards. BASC has also lobbied against proposals for airgun licensing in England and Wales. A simple online search will reveal plenty of evidence on all of this.

BASC does not think lead shot should be banned and is opposed to the proposals to ban it. Visit BASC's website for more information.

[Conor O'Gorman]

1 hour ago, harkom said:

Another shot in the foot from bs&co ....( yep, just remember their stance on nil fee GP endorsement for applicants and renewals ).

The end game is to find a political solution to the issues around 'medical verification' of the information we each provide for new grants and renewals (best not to refer to 'GP endorsement' as you did above, best to refer to 'medical verification' please).

In the meantime we have set up a BASC medical panel which provides a dedicated service to ensure a speedy resolution to members who are being let down and delayed by unhelpful GPs during the firearms licensing process.

The service links applicants with medical professionals to help secure medical verification. It also assists applicants who are either unhappy with being charged exorbitant fees by their own GP or those facing delays because their GP is refusing to take part in the process.

For more information on this service available to BASC members click on the link below.

https://basc.org.uk/basc-medical-panels/

[Graham M]

On 03/02/2023 at 20:38, Conor O'Gorman said:

That's not true.

BASC opposed and campaigned against the proposals for airgun licensing in Scotland from the first proposals in 2012 onwards. BASC has also lobbied against proposals for airgun licensing in England and Wales. A simple online search will reveal plenty of evidence on all of this.

BASC does not think lead shot should be banned and is opposed to the proposals to ban it. Visit BASC's website for more information.

So someone else wrote this then??????

https://basc.org.uk/shooting-and-rural-organisations-take-responsibility-of-move-away-from-lead-ammunition/

[Scully]

19 minutes ago, Graham M said:

So someone else wrote this then??????

https://basc.org.uk/shooting-and-rural-organisations-take-responsibility-of-move-away-from-lead-ammunition/

Again, you can’t argue with that! 🤷‍♂️

[GHE]

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

Again, you can’t argue with that! 🤷‍♂️

Well, I bet that someone will - and will say that although BASC fully supports moving to non-lead shot (which will reduce clean kills, will increase ammo costs, will make a lot of older shotguns unusable and which will bring about zero benefits) BASC hasn't actually proposed a ban on lead . . .

[Conor O'Gorman]

@GHE before addressing your further broad brush assertions about non-lead shot you might perhaps have the courtesy to comment on your incorrect assertion earlier in this thread that BASC supported airgun licensing in Scotland in the face of evidence to the contrary?

[GHE]

44 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

@GHE before addressing your further broad brush assertions about non-lead shot you might perhaps have the courtesy to comment on your incorrect assertion earlier in this thread that BASC supported airgun licensing in Scotland in the face of evidence to the contrary?

One thing at a time surely? Please feel free to comment on the BASC support for non-lead shot, as this is not relevant to the airgun licensing in Scotland.

But, on that subject, a BASC representative clearly stated, on this forum at that time, that BASC supported airgun licensing in Scotland.  I also remember info about this on your website, although I appreciate that this content may have been removed later.

[Conor O'Gorman]

5 hours ago, GHE said:

One thing at a time surely? Please feel free to comment on the BASC support for non-lead shot, as this is not relevant to the airgun licensing in Scotland.

But, on that subject, a BASC representative clearly stated, on this forum at that time, that BASC supported airgun licensing in Scotland.  I also remember info about this on your website, although I appreciate that this content may have been removed later.

So, you vaguely remember a BASC rep posting something a decade ago, and something on our website that you think might now be deleted. That's not much to go on is it to make such a statement?

How about the following posts on this very forum?

https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/249199-say-no-to-airgun-licensing-in-scotland/

https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/283531-a-costly-and-bureaucratic-mistake-basc-response-to-scottish/

BTW did you sign the petition against airgun licensing in Scotland that BASC was promoting at the time? Here are some statements from the campaign organiser "This campaign was encouraged and received huge levels of support from the BASC and quickly gathered momentum."BASC produced a lengthy and wonderful written defense against the proposals and outlined various ways in which supporters and those affected can have their say and oppose the proposals; including signing the campaigns petition and following the campaign via social media, as well as responding to the official consultation and lobbying MP’s and MSP’s other this issue."

https://firearmsuk.org/no-to-airgun-licensing-in-scotland/

 In light of all this do you still maintain your assertion stated above that BASC supported airgun licensing in Scotland?

[GHE]

17 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

"BASC produced a lengthy and wonderful written defense

Not so wonderfully-written when they can't even spell defence correctly . . .

Obviously you have much better resources than I, even if you can't spell in English, and your commercial interest makes it worthwhile for you to try to rebut challenges. I think we'll leave it there as I don't have the time or inclination to trawl through hundreds of previous posts.

No, I didn't sign a petition because I didn't know about the proposals. I had previously been a member but by that time had discovered the true value of membership for myself and so was no longer a member.

In my view, BASC does far too little to support its membership, it concentrates its efforts into building its corporate image and trying to build ever-closer relationships with government, which I believe is diametrically opposed to the interests of shooters.  But, for balance, I don't feel that any other shooting organisations are much use to us either.

[Fellside]

Sorry I just find all this BASC bashing a little tedious. They are doing an extremely tough job. To a greater degree, they (we) have little choice but to ‘ride the green wave’ or become swamped by it. There has to be some adherence to sustainability, but also support for shooting - an extremely tricky balancing act. Will they always get it perfectly right? Of course not. The best we can expect, is that they get it right most of the time - like the rest of us trying to find our way through life. My observations are that they do generally achieve this. 

My own personal experiences with BASC employees are that they are passionate about field sports and have a genuine drive to help. I am currently working with them on shoot conservation projects and youth clay shooting. They’ve been a vital resource! There will always be a few BASC haters - queue the stick but I’ve got thick skin! However, wouldn’t it be a refreshing change if they were treated like human beings, instead of targets for abuse from the very community they’re trying to help!

[Conor O'Gorman]

@GHE  In light of the evidence that has been posted do you still maintain your assertion that BASC supported airgun licensing in Scotland? 

[Graham M]

On 08/02/2023 at 19:24, Graham M said:

So someone else wrote this then??????

https://basc.org.uk/shooting-and-rural-organisations-take-responsibility-of-move-away-from-lead-ammunition/

And as if to divert everyone's mind off the subject, Conor raves on about airgun licencing in Scotland. 

Make a good politician would Conor; gets questioned about supporting a lead ban and talks about airgun licencing in Scotland.

Who was it said that they weren't lying.........just being economical with the truth.

 

 

Ah yes I remember now....................................... a politician.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

21 hours ago, Graham M said:

And as if to divert everyone's mind off the subject, Conor raves on about airgun licencing in Scotland. 

Make a good politician would Conor; gets questioned about supporting a lead ban and talks about airgun licencing in Scotland.

Who was it said that they weren't lying.........just being economical with the truth.

 

 

Ah yes I remember now....................................... a politician.

 

I think that's a little uncalled for because if you take the time to read the earlier posts above you will find that BASC's position on airgun licensing in Scotland was introduced by @GHE in this thread about firearms licensing.

We await @GHE confirming if he/she still maintains their assertion that BASC supported airgun licensing in Scotland despite evidence to the contrary.

If you would like to discuss BASC's work fighting the proposed ban on lead ammunition please DM me to arrange a phone call.

[Conor O'Gorman]

On 09/02/2023 at 17:02, Fellside said:

Sorry I just find all this BASC bashing a little tedious. They are doing an extremely tough job. To a greater degree, they (we) have little choice but to ‘ride the green wave’ or become swamped by it. There has to be some adherence to sustainability, but also support for shooting - an extremely tricky balancing act. Will they always get it perfectly right? Of course not. The best we can expect, is that they get it right most of the time - like the rest of us trying to find our way through life. My observations are that they do generally achieve this. 

My own personal experiences with BASC employees are that they are passionate about field sports and have a genuine drive to help. I am currently working with them on shoot conservation projects and youth clay shooting. They’ve been a vital resource! There will always be a few BASC haters - queue the stick but I’ve got thick skin! However, wouldn’t it be a refreshing change if they were treated like human beings, instead of targets for abuse from the very community they’re trying to help!

Thank you for taking the time to post this. Good of you to do so. I think most forum members have good intentions with constructive feedback but there are occasions when some forum members get drawn into a spiral of non-constructive pessimism and negativity. And there are a few malevolent trolls that come and go.

[oowee]

On 09/02/2023 at 18:02, Fellside said:

Sorry I just find all this BASC bashing a little tedious. They are doing an extremely tough job. To a greater degree, they (we) have little choice but to ‘ride the green wave’ or become swamped by it. There has to be some adherence to sustainability, but also support for shooting - an extremely tricky balancing act. Will they always get it perfectly right? Of course not. The best we can expect, is that they get it right most of the time - like the rest of us trying to find our way through life. My observations are that they do generally achieve this. 

My own personal experiences with BASC employees are that they are passionate about field sports and have a genuine drive to help. I am currently working with them on shoot conservation projects and youth clay shooting. They’ve been a vital resource! There will always be a few BASC haters - queue the stick but I’ve got thick skin! However, wouldn’t it be a refreshing change if they were treated like human beings, instead of targets for abuse from the very community they’re trying to help!

 

6 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Thank you for taking the time to post this. Good of you to do so. I think most forum members have good intentions with constructive feedback but there are occasions when some forum members get drawn into a spiral of non-constructive pessimism and negativity. And there are a few malevolent trolls that come and go.

👍 here here!!

[Scully]

44 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I think that's a little uncalled for because if you take the time to read the earlier posts above you will find that BASC's position on airgun licensing in Scotland was introduced by @GHE in this thread about firearms licensing.

We await @GHE confirming if he/she still maintains their assertion that BASC supported airgun licensing in Scotland despite evidence to the contrary.

If you would like to discuss BASC's work fighting the proposed ban on lead ammunition please DM me to arrange a phone call.

I’ll agree BASC are between a rock and and a hard place currently, and have said as much on this very forum, but it’s hard to dismiss the criticism as merely ‘ BASC bashing’ when BASC claim they are fighting a lead ban but their own statements contradict this, as pointed out by some PW members who have posted links undeniably proving so. 
You can’t have it both ways. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Scully

[Fellside]

29 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’ll agree BASC are between a rock and and a hard place currently, and have said as much on this very forum, but it’s hard to dismiss the criticism as merely ‘ BASC bashing’ when BASC claim they are fighting a lead ban but their own statements contradict this, as pointed out by some PW members who have posted links undeniably proving so. 
You can’t have it both ways. 

Hard journey for BASC to navigate Scully - through stormy seas. I appreciate the point you make though. 

[GHE]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I think that's a little uncalled for because if you take the time to read the earlier posts above you will find that BASC's position on airgun licensing in Scotland was introduced by @GHE in this thread about firearms licensing.

We await @GHE confirming if he/she still maintains their assertion that BASC supported airgun licensing in Scotland despite evidence to the contrary.

If you would like to discuss BASC's work fighting the proposed ban on lead ammunition please DM me to arrange a phone call.

As I suggested earlier, it would be good if you addressed one topic at a time rather than practice your distraction skills by going off at a tangent. And, as I pointed out earlier, I don't have the time, resources or inclination to trawl through hundreds of earlier posts just to prove a point.

 

1 hour ago, oowee said:

 

👍 here here!!

I hate to be pendantic here, but your English has let you down again.  It's actually Hear Hear, a corruption of the original  Hear Him, not here here.

 

56 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’ll agree BASC are between a rock and and a hard place currently, and have said as much on this very forum, but it’s hard to dismiss the criticism as merely ‘ BASC bashing’ when BASC claim they are fighting a lead ban but their own statements contradict this, as pointed out by some PW members who have posted links undeniably proving so. 
You can’t have it both ways. 

Agreed. And I fully accept that BASC are pretty much damned if they do and damned if they don't, but it's the position that they chose to adopt by claiming to be the voice of shooting. And, whilst I don't want to insult BASC by mentioning their name in the same sentence as the infamous Gun Control Network, I do think it's sad that the tiny and fanatical Gun Control Network is highly successful at getting themselves interviewed and featured in the media, and BASC isn't.

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Thank you for taking the time to post this. Good of you to do so. I think most forum members have good intentions with constructive feedback but there are occasions when some forum members get drawn into a spiral of non-constructive pessimism and negativity. And there are a few malevolent trolls that come and go.

I'm not at troll and I don't believe that I am either negative or pessimistic. If anything, I'm apathetic, in that I feel that BASC (and the other shooting organisations) are just a waste of both time and membership fees.