Teachers pay rise

[steve1066]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

It's not that I believe teachers are particularly lazy. It's that I don't see what justifys their unions constant outrageous demands. The police don't help themselves on a regular basis, but at least they're not threatening a strike everytime they want a pay increase, or demanding they got Covid vaccinnes before elderly and vulnerable because they're too important not to be back at work.

I can only think that the reason to them wanting the vaccine before the old was to get the kids back into school and also parents especially the NHS back to work.

As you well know the unions are only trying to justify their existence, I always believed that if you worked hard and kept your nose clean you wouldn’t need the union. Well apart from the lazy and unscrupulous ones.

[12gauge82]

Just now, steve1066 said:

I can only think that the reason to them wanting the vaccine before the old was to get the kids back into school and also parents especially the NHS back to work.

As you well know the unions are only trying to justify their existence, I always believed that if you worked hard and kept your nose clean you wouldn’t need the union. Well apart from the lazy and unscrupulous ones.

The vaccines had a nasty wiff of self importance, but only my personal opinion.

I absolutely agree on the unions, they're no better than the train union or probably many others, it's certainly no dig at teachers in general, there will be a range from exceptionally good, to exceptionally bad/lazy and everything in between, like any other job.

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

So would one of the posters above swap your job do such a cushy number if not please post why ?

and the shortage of teachers is only adding fuel to the problem v

Mrs Agriv8 is a teacher has never striked and never will - 4 years at uni and only ever wanted to be a teacher !

go and try it and then post back if you think they are over paid ?

regards Agriv8 

 

👍

[Mice!]

4 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

So would one of the posters above swap your job do such a cushy number if not please post why ?

and the shortage of teachers is only adding fuel to the problem v

Mrs Agriv8 is a teacher has never striked and never will - 4 years at uni and only ever wanted to be a teacher !

go and try it and then post back if you think they are over paid ?

regards Agriv8 

 

Not a chance that you'll get a sensible answer. 

Unfortunately the unions will use this to further try and damage the Government. 

11 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

It's that I don't see what justifys their unions constant outrageous demands.

We had union reps on the shop floor who once went in and asked for 2% because they said the company was struggling,  2% 🤣🤣 they might as well have just said don't bother.

I can understand they want a pay rise, as does everyone and why not, when all your bills go up you want a pay rise, teachers don't get overtime do they? Do they get bonuses??

[12gauge82]

13 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

So would one of the posters above swap your job do such a cushy number if not please post why ?

and the shortage of teachers is only adding fuel to the problem v

Mrs Agriv8 is a teacher has never striked and never will - 4 years at uni and only ever wanted to be a teacher !

go and try it and then post back if you think they are over paid ?

regards Agriv8 

 

No I certainly wouldn't want to be a teacher. But then I wouldn't want to be a carer even more, particularly on the pay they receive, the lack of recognition they get, the lack of pension and unstable nature of their jobs. I could also add a huge list of jobs I'd rather not do if you'd like?

[steve1066]

15 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

So would one of the posters above swap your job do such a cushy number if not please post why ?

and the shortage of teachers is only adding fuel to the problem v

Mrs Agriv8 is a teacher has never striked and never will - 4 years at uni and only ever wanted to be a teacher !

go and try it and then post back if you think they are over paid ?

regards Agriv8 

 

👍

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

No I certainly wouldn't want to be a teacher. But then I wouldn't want to be a carer even more, particularly on the pay they receive, the lack of recognition they get, the lack of pension and unstable nature of their jobs. I could also add a huge list of jobs I'd rather not do if you'd like?

The carers, another bunch of unsung heroes. I take my hat off to them.

[steve1066]

Just had a request from a teacher asking to post this comment,

” How many other occupations keep you awake at night thinking I hope that child I haven’t seen for three weeks is safe/alive.

[Mungler]

25 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

So would one of the posters above swap your job do such a cushy number if not please post why ?

and the shortage of teachers is only adding fuel to the problem v

Mrs Agriv8 is a teacher has never striked and never will - 4 years at uni and only ever wanted to be a teacher !

go and try it and then post back if you think they are over paid ?

regards Agriv8 

 

There’s conflation on this thread.

Secure job, pension, £40k pa and nearly 4 months of the year off. It’s a good gig.

I see they are seizing the opportunity to strike - the left are out to stick the boot into the Torys and they’re trying for more money - I get it, but I don’t think they should get any more. That’s it.

The state teachers round our way have all jumped to the private schools - more money and more holidays, but of course they ain’t striking.

[welsh1]

7 minutes ago, steve1066 said:

Just had a request from a teacher asking to post this comment,

” How many other occupations keep you awake at night thinking I hope that child I haven’t seen for three weeks is safe/alive.

Oh not the tug at the heart strings with "we look after the kids" routine,there are many jobs that keep you awake at night worrying about the safety of others.

If it worries your mate so much and is affecting his/her health tell them find another job.In the real world people don't have their perks and pensions.
 

[12gauge82]

19 minutes ago, steve1066 said:

Just had a request from a teacher asking to post this comment,

” How many other occupations keep you awake at night thinking I hope that child I haven’t seen for three weeks is safe/alive.

Milatry - How many occupations could you get both legs and your nuts blown off, or worry the new kid isn't going to make it home to see his family.

Prison officer - how many occupations can you expect to be assaulted everyday.

Surgeon - how many occupations stay awake at night and worry a child will die the next day because the operation they carry out is unsuccessful.

Nuclear power station controller, need I say more?

Again I could go on and on.

Edited June 25, 2023 by 12gauge82

[owain]

A lot of bitterness in this thread I think. Teachers get so much money, so much time off, so much pension. 
If they don’t get a pay rise they loose money simple as that. Same as most public sector workers haven’t had a decent pay rise in years and they’ve had enough. If you haven’t had a pay rise for a while but haven’t got the balls to do something about it then that’s your bad luck. Don’t slag others off for taking a stand. 

[Lloyd90]

As said, it’s so good, easy, well paid and so much time off that they can’t get anyone to do it … work that one out 🤣

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, owain said:

A lot of bitterness in this thread I think. Teachers get so much money, so much time off, so much pension. 
If they don’t get a pay rise they loose money simple as that. Same as most public sector workers haven’t had a decent pay rise in years and they’ve had enough. If you haven’t had a pay rise for a while but haven’t got the balls to do something about it then that’s your bad luck. Don’t slag others off for taking a stand. 

Taking a stand or holding the country to ransom?

Teaching has pros and cons like any other career, I'm neither slating them or holding them up as super heroes.

I'm simply critical of the teaching unions demanding large, disproportional pay rises, if they then threaten strike action on the back of it being turned down.

[owain]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Taking a stand or holding the country to ransom?

Teaching has pros and cons like any other career, I'm neither slating them or holding them up as super heroes.

I'm simply critical of the teaching unions demanding large, disproportional pay rises, if they then threaten strike action on the back of it being turned down.

How much are they asking for? And how much have they had over the past 10 years? 

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, owain said:

How much are they asking for? And how much have they had over the past 10 years? 

6%

You could ask the same question of any job, virtually every occupation has seen a erosion of their real wages since the 2008 financial crisis. The difference is, very few will threaten strike action. Teachers are claiming to stay awake at night worrying about children's futures, while their representative union threatens strike action, jeopardising little Johnny's future and hitting hard working familys, some much worse off than teachers in the pocket.

Do you think that's right?

[shaun4860]

3 hours ago, markm said:

OMG this post has made my day. Rather than biting keyboard warriors…..

Just keep paying your taxes. You’ve got no idea how much I’ll spend in Orlando for 20 nights this summer, plus I’ve got a few weeks either side to cover as well.  It’s hard, expensive work that……

I was wondering how long it would take you to find this 🤣

[owain]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

6%

You could ask the same question of any job, virtually every occupation has seen a erosion of their real wages since the 2008 financial crisis. The difference is, very few will threaten strike action. Teachers are claiming to stay awake at night worrying about children's futures, while their representative union threatens strike action, jeopardising little Johnny's future and hitting hard working familys, some much worse off than teachers in the pocket.

Do you think that's right?

6% is very reasonable in the current climate. They shouldn’t have to threaten industrial action to get that. 

[Agriv8]

Another page and no one said why they would  be a teacher - but still lots saying how cushy it is. It’s the same reason we all bash the police. 

all the unions are sticking the boot n it how politics flipping works.

go to school and volunteer to listen to kids read watch what the average teacher has to deal with - when you have done this post back ! 
 

Agriv8 

[shaun4860]

Schools are also causing the shortage by using supply teachers who they can just tell not to come in as there is no work.

It’s the same as the NHS who use agency or what they call bank workers.

I couldn’t teach, don’t really like children enough or have the patience 🤷🏻‍♂️

[welsh1]

6 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

Another page and no one said why they would  be a teacher - but still lots saying how cushy it is. It’s the same reason we all bash the police. 

all the unions are sticking the boot n it how politics flipping works.

go to school and volunteer to listen to kids read watch what the average teacher has to deal with - when you have done this post back ! 
 

Agriv8 

Why would I want to go to school and help out, there are teachers paid good money to do just that.

[Mungler]

4 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

Another page and no one said why they would  be a teacher - but still lots saying how cushy it is. It’s the same reason we all bash the police. 

all the unions are sticking the boot n it how politics flipping works.

go to school and volunteer to listen to kids read watch what the average teacher has to deal with - when you have done this post back ! 
 

Agriv8 

When I was looking at what to do for a job / career 30 years ago I went for something that would pay well and not be wiped out by computerisation. 

If I didn’t want into the rat race but wanted a relatively secure existence and really long holidays then I’d have had a look at teaching or some other public sector role where you can accumulate extra days holiday with length of service. It’s all horses for courses.

My view is that teachers should get pay that’s fair. I’d like to see time sheets / measurement of hours worked (input) and student results (output) and such that the good teachers get more money for doing more / a better job. That’s what happens in the rest of the world, but the unions would never have it. 

Going back to teacher’s starting salaries of £30k/£40k (outside/inside M25) - that’s not bad for 8 months actual graft out of the year. Pro rata that back up to someone working full time for a full working year 😉 and that equates to a starting salary of £45k/£60k a year pro rata.

Teachers say (1) they want more money (2) they have to stop working during the school holidays, well the way to top up their salaries and get them more money is to get them all jobs during those massive holiday periods and do it that way - we just equalise their holidays so they can get 20 days off plus all the bank holidays like the rest of us and then work the remaining 3 months they get off doing something else for more money. Job jobbed 😉

It is very noble that everyone wants more money for nurses, doctors, fireman, policemen, train drivers, post men, the civil service… just as long as everyone remembers that the government has no money and we’re all paying. That’s not because of covid or Ukraine (etc) it’s because the government only has the money it lifts off everyone / everything else in the economy through taxation and that’s not just direct taxation through income tax but every other tax eg fuel duty, VAT, stamp duty, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, green duties, ulez, congestion charges and so on. Labour will tell us the money is going to come from the mythical billionaires that everyone hates, but it’s not. I digress. 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Mungler

[JohnfromUK]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

just as long as everyone remembers that the government has no money and we’re all paying. That’s not because of covid or Ukraine (etc) it’s because the government only has the money it lifts off everyone / everything else in the economy through taxation and that’s not just direct taxation through income tax but every other tax eg fuel duty, VAT, stamp duty, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, green duties, ulez, congestion charges and so on. Labour will tell us the money is going to come from the mythical billionaires that everyone hates, but it’s not.

/\. This.

[owain]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

When I was looking at what to do for a job / career 30 years ago I went for something that would pay well and not be wiped out by computerisation. 

If I didn’t want into the rat race but wanted a relatively secure existence and really long holidays then I’d have had a look at teaching or some other public sector role where you can accumulate extra days holiday with length of service. It’s all horses for courses.

My view is that teachers should get pay that’s fair. I’d like to see time sheets / measurement of hours worked (input) and student results (output) and such that the good teachers get more money for doing more / a better job. That’s what happens in the rest of the world, but the unions would never have it. 

Going back to teacher’s starting salaries of £30k/£40k (outside/inside M25) - that’s not bad for 8 months actual graft out of the year. Pro rata that back up to someone working full time for a full working year 😉 and that equates to a starting salary of £45k/£60k a year pro rata.

Teachers say (1) they want more money (2) they have to stop working during the school holidays, well the way to top up their salaries and get them more money is to get them all jobs during those massive holiday periods and do it that way - we just equalise their holidays so they can get 20 days off plus all the bank holidays like the rest of us and then work the remaining 3 months they get off doing something else for more money. Job jobbed 😉

It is very noble that everyone wants more money for nurses, doctors, fireman, policemen, train drivers, post men, the civil service… just as long as everyone remembers that the government has no money and we’re all paying. That’s not because of covid or Ukraine (etc) it’s because the government only has the money it lifts off everyone / everything else in the economy through taxation and that’s not just direct taxation through income tax but every other tax eg fuel duty, VAT, stamp duty, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, green duties, ulez, congestion charges and so on. Labour will tell us the money is going to come from the mythical billionaires that everyone hates, but it’s not. I digress. 

 

Funny how the government never has any money for public sector pay rises. But always seems to have enough for themselves though isn’t it?
Their pay has gone up way above the rate of inflation, expenses for absolutely everything, subsidised living down in London when they bother to show up to parliament. Not to mention the money they gave to their friends during Covid.

MPs often have 2nd or 3rd jobs. So their primary employment can’t exactly be full time. Whopping pension that they can claim early on whilst cracking the whip on the rest of us. You’ve got me ranting now 😂.

But I think that’s what sticks in the throat for a lot of public sector workers. Being told sorry no cash by the people in charge whist they would never go without. 

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, owain said:

Funny how the government never has any money for public sector pay rises. But always seems to have enough for themselves though isn’t it?
Their pay has gone up way above the rate of inflation, expenses for absolutely everything, subsidised living down in London when they bother to show up to parliament. Not to mention the money they gave to their friends during Covid.

MPs often have 2nd or 3rd jobs. So their primary employment can’t exactly be full time. Whopping pension that they can claim early on whilst cracking the whip on the rest of us. You’ve got me ranting now 😂.

But I think that’s what sticks in the throat for a lot of public sector workers. Being told sorry no cash by the people in charge whist they would never go without. 

MPs pay is not set by the Govt.  It is independent of Govt.  This year it has gone up by 2.9%.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/pay-mps/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/mps-pay-rise-increase-how-much-salary-civil-servants-rishi-sunak-b1059344.html

[owain]

38 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

MPs pay is not set by the Govt.  It is independent of Govt.  This year it has gone up by 2.9%.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/pay-mps/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/mps-pay-rise-increase-how-much-salary-civil-servants-rishi-sunak-b1059344.html

https://www.statista.com/statistics/388885/mp-salary-uk/
 

20k pay rise over the past 13 years isn’t to be sniffed at though is it?