Another nail in the coffin!

[wigeon jim]

Sadly it's so called wildfowlers that think they don't have to stick to the rules, places like LNRs which have wardens checking are better but open foreshore has lots of individuals who use lead and have no intention to change, sadly the only way to stop it is a complete lead ban which none of us want,

[holloway]

13 hours ago, captainhastings said:

Bet his been collecting them for months just to get a little pile and knock up a story. I can't beleave there is many that leave empties around other than the odd lost one from a semi 

Again sadly not my experience , empties everywhere ,found several unfired lead shells where they were lost , the wardened areas are the best and luckily the worst offenders seem to avoid these places .If everywhere was wardened people would behave better .

[captainhastings]

3 minutes ago, holloway said:

Again sadly not my experience , empties everywhere ,found several unfired lead shells where they were lost , the wardened areas are the best and luckily the worst offenders seem to avoid these places .If everywhere was wardened people would behave better .

That’s a poor do then 

[holloway]

Just now, captainhastings said:

That’s a poor do then 

It is sad and frustrating i think Widgeon Jim has the same views as myself.

[Pushandpull]

As I suggested above, check the actual paper. The cases are from sites all over the place, not just Caerlaverock. It is impossible to defend.

[marsh man]

14 hours ago, wigeon jim said:

Sadly it's so called wildfowlers that think they don't have to stick to the rules, places like LNRs which have wardens checking are better but open foreshore has lots of individuals who use lead and have no intention to change, sadly the only way to stop it is a complete lead ban which none of us want,

I think this is a problem that is more widespread than we would like to think , I was at a club meeting a few years ago when one or two members had picked up several empty cases as the land owner was getting concerned as horses and cattle graze on these marshes throughout the Summer months , these empties were put on the table so all the members could see how many were picked up , the empties were bad enough but also on show were several live cartridges , these ended up as one of the prizes in the nights raffle .

[Scully]

7 hours ago, marsh man said:

I think this is a problem that is more widespread than we would like to think , I was at a club meeting a few years ago when one or two members had picked up several empty cases as the land owner was getting concerned as horses and cattle graze on these marshes throughout the Summer months , these empties were put on the table so all the members could see how many were picked up , the empties were bad enough but also on show were several live cartridges , these ended up as one of the prizes in the nights raffle .

As concerning as the littering is, empty cases or wads pose no danger to domestic stock. 

[marsh man]

3 hours ago, Scully said:

As concerning as the littering is, empty cases or wads pose no danger to domestic stock. 

Maybe but if the land owner request no plastic wads or cartridge cases where his livestock graze then to keep the land you shoot over you then have to comply or lose it .

On our estate it is fibre wad only , no plastic wads can be used at not only vermin but game as well . 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, marsh man said:

Maybe but if the land owner request no plastic wads or cartridge cases where his livestock graze then to keep the land you shoot over you then have to comply or lose it .

On our estate it is fibre wad only , no plastic wads can be used at not only vermin but game as well . 

Quite, what the landowner says goes, providing he does in fact own the land.  I thought much of the foreshore and it’s corresponding marshes were Crown owned or public land. 

[marsh man]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

Quite, what the landowner says goes, providing he does in fact own the land.  I thought much of the foreshore and it’s corresponding marshes were Crown owned or public land. 

No I am sorry that is not case , All the the marshes both sides of the estuary are owned by private people and the land they own go either up to the top or the low water mark on the estuary side , a lot of marsh land is owned by the R S P B and at least three local wildfowling clubs rent a fair bit of marsh land on both sides of the estuary .

On the estuary it is run by the R S P B with several different groups and organiasion's that have a say in the matter in how it is run , groups like the Broads Authority , English Nature and the Great Yarmouth Wildfowlers who run the shooting and have also got some salting's that they own , so although there is a public footpath on both sides it is still on private land .

[Scully]

Well there you go; every day’s a school day. 

[Dave at kelton]

9 hours ago, marsh man said:

No I am sorry that is not case , All the the marshes both sides of the estuary are owned by private people and the land they own go either up to the top or the low water mark on the estuary side , a lot of marsh land is owned by the R S P B and at least three local wildfowling clubs rent a fair bit of marsh land on both sides of the estuary .

On the estuary it is run by the R S P B with several different groups and organiasion's that have a say in the matter in how it is run , groups like the Broads Authority , English Nature and the Great Yarmouth Wildfowlers who run the shooting and have also got some salting's that they own , so although there is a public footpath on both sides it is still on private land .

And that is the difference between England and Scotland. North of the border unless it’s a restricted area such as a Nature Reserve anyone can shoot below the high water mark and cross private land to get there under the right to roam. Consequently wildfowling clubs have little or no control of what happens.

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said:

And that is the difference between England and Scotland. North of the border unless it’s a restricted area such as a Nature Reserve anyone can shoot below the high water mark and cross private land to get there under the right to roam. Consequently wildfowling clubs have little or no control of what happens.

A sad state of affairs  over the border Dave and no doubt if it ever get sorted out then it could possibly be to late .

Ours estuary was free shooting until 1968 and then the R S P B took control , we tried long and hard to carry on punt gunning but in the end we had to admit defeat , to be able to carry on wild fowling we had to give up punt gunning and the largest gun we could use was a 8 bore , we also had to give up Mondays so with Sundays already a non shooting day the wild fowl got a rest for two days a week  . the G Y W A had the foresight in buying some salting on the estury so the members can carry on shooting into February , they also run the shooting side on a permit sheme , I had a permit for 17 years but in the end it got to the stage where you would see more members of the public than wildfowlers and this was something I couldn't get use to , nowadays we have very few problems but although the shooting can still be good it is only a fraction of how good the place once was.

On the other hand the marshes are far better than in the past , this is partly due to the R S P B buying a big block of marshland on the North side and mantain them to attract wildfowl with geese being the main attraction , numbers can go up and down with the peak being around 15.000 Pink Feet , and a fair number of White Fronts.

On the South side where I mainly go is slightly different , all the marshes are owned by private land owners and now no crops are grown in a five mile block of marshes , these are now used for grazing livestock and for hay making , around a third of them are rented by a local W A club , we have very little trouble and these are fairly good for duck as with the grass being short when they take the live stock off in early November the splashe's soon appear once we get some heavy rain . so all in all we have seen a lot of changes but the wildfowling is still there and long may it continue 

[Penelope]

5 hours ago, Scully said:

Well there you go; every day’s a school day. 

MM will be referring to fresh marsh (drained), landward of the seawall.

[Gas seal]

Hi Scully the crown will have owned the foreshore around the country. Land between low and high water. Marsh land may not be foreshore. Foreshore will also be estuaries, but not always the salt marsh. The crown did allow shooting on the foreshore.

 

Hi Marsh man Punt gunning is the least disturbance type of shooting in wildfowling . This was tested at Lindisfarne .

we now have a new owner of the foreshore and he very involved with the  (green environment) I don’t think he will be pleased with plastic wads on the foreshore. I wouldn’t be surprised if this would be a condition in future leases. Maybe clubs should change before they have to. It would look better.

[marsh man]

4 hours ago, Penelope said:

MM will be referring to fresh marsh (drained), landward of the seawall.

Hi  Paul ..    Some of the fresh marshes have gone around in a full circle , when the R S P B first bought the marshes on the Halvergate levels they flooded the drained marshes on purpose to attract wildfowl and I must admit they done a very good job in doing so .

This is now going on again on some different marshes that are beside the estuary on the North side, more or less beside the embankment , this must be costing a small fortune as three weeks ago on that hot spell I had a walk up there to see what they were doing , I counted at least nine large diggers and as many dumpers , they had put new dykes in with sluise gates , new ponds and scrapes , this cover a distance of at least a mile and I believe it was funded by Water Management and possibly English nature , so after many years where they had a constant battle to keep them drained they will now be controlled flooded and a paradise for both wildfowl and waders .

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi Scully the crown will have owned the foreshore around the country. Land between low and high water. Marsh land may not be foreshore. Foreshore will also be estuaries, but not always the salt marsh. The crown did allow shooting on the foreshore.

 

Hi Marsh man Punt gunning is the least disturbance type of shooting in wildfowling . This was tested at Lindisfarne .

we now have a new owner of the foreshore and he very involved with the  (green environment) I don’t think he will be pleased with plastic wads on the foreshore. I wouldn’t be surprised if this would be a condition in future leases. Maybe clubs should change before they have to. It would look better.

Thanks, but I’m not really concerned about the marshes as I’m not a wildfowler.
My point was that it’s pointless being concerned about plastic littering the foreshore as it’s been going on for as long as there have been plastic cases and wads, and they will be turning up for decades to come.  🤷‍♂️

If no one intends to challenge the statements by the wetlands trust regarding lead shot, then there’s not a lot more to be said really. 

 

[marsh man]

5 hours ago, Gas seal said:

 

 

Hi Marsh man Punt gunning is the least disturbance type of shooting in wildfowling . This was tested at Lindisfarne .

we now have a new owner of the foreshore and he very involved with the  (green environment) I don’t think he will be pleased with plastic wads on the foreshore. I wouldn’t be surprised if this would be a condition in future leases. Maybe clubs should change before they have to. It would look better.

We fought long and hard to carry on the tradition of punt gunning but at the end of the day we were only a small cog in the wheel and we could had easily ended up with losing wildfowling on the estuary all together , so we ended up with what we have still got now , one of our problems now is the place is getting very popular with the genral public that come to see the quantity of wildfowl and waders that can peak at many 1000s in fact on the R S P B website at Berney Arms it state that numbers can reach 85,000 on the reserve , now it very easy to get to the reserve on the trains , I have done it loads of times by getting the train to Berney Arms un maned station , then cross the marshes and walk back home which take betwee 2 ans 2 1/2 hours , every so often we get some brownie points off the public by clearing the rubbish up off the estuary , we bag the plastic and genral rubbish up and the council come and pick it up , so we do our bit to try and keep the place tidy  and it's a pity that the genral public don't always do there bit .