Channel migrants

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Which means that with an aging Irish population added into the equation the time is rapidly approaching when the Irish could find themselves in the minority.

The time is rapidly approaching for a lot of countries who bought into the liberalist ideals of the EU, when they realise that an open door policy on migration, particularly from 3rd world countries, is not the greatest idea if you liked your country the way it was.

[Vince Green]

18 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The time is rapidly approaching for a lot of countries who bought into the liberalist ideals of the EU, when they realise that an open door policy on migration, particularly from 3rd world countries, is not the greatest idea if you liked your country the way it was.

The population of Africa is about 1.6 Billion. Because of rapid population growth there are more people than the land / local economy can support in many places.

This causes many young men to be disenfranchised.  ie they don't have or don't inherit land so have no way of getting on with their lives.

The only way they have to get out of this predicament is to migrate to somewhere where they believe they have a future.

Political policies and other barriers are not going to dissuade them from coming. They believe "the streets are paved with gold" in Europe. Compared to where they have come from it probably is.

Much the same story in many parts of the middle East, Asia and South America.  Its a global problem. 

Then there is all the stuff about climate change, rising sea levels etc

What is terrifying is the scale of the problem

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

The population of Africa is about 1.6 Billion. Because of rapid population growth there are more people than the land / local economy can support in many places.

This causes many young men to be disenfranchised.  ie they don't have or don't inherit land so have no way of getting on with their lives.

The only way they have to get out of this predicament is to migrate to somewhere where they believe they have a future.

Political policies and other barriers are not going to dissuade them from coming. They believe "the streets are paved with gold" in Europe. Compared to where they have come from it probably is.

Much the same story in many parts of the middle East, Asia and South America.  Its a global problem. 

Then there is all the stuff about climate change, rising sea levels etc

What is terrifying is the scale of the problem

It's certainly a huge problem that is not going to go away anytime soon. Even more reason why the UK trying to cut itself off from the rest of the civilised world looks like a stupid move. 

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Those  2 fingers, via 4 million votes for UKIP , gave us a Brexit referendum, which , against a media and political establishment heavily against leaving, thankfully gave us freedom from the EU.
But what did the system do with the result ?
After nearly 4 years of bluster and calls for a revote, we actually left, and only because the Brexit party threatened to rob the tories of votes, but in reality we are very little further on.

You put your faith in a democratic system in the UK, but its just an illusion, and there is no will to do anything realistic about uncontrolled migration, by anyone, despite what the majority may want.
Even Reform have watered down their proposals, trying to make their politics more palatable to more of the populace.
Like I say, they could have a landslide victory, but what could they actually do , they would have constant attacks from all angles, because the system rums far deeper than any mere government.

Things will get considerably worse before they get better, thats if they ever get better.

Its not so much putting my faith in the democratic system, but more like what choice do any of us have? 

What would you suggest, a violent revolution?

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It's certainly a huge problem that is not going to go away anytime soon. Even more reason why the UK trying to cut itself off from the rest of the civilised world looks like a stupid move. 

Quite the opposite, simple solution, drop anyone arriving here illegally straight back to France. There would be lots of howls about human rights, the UK would be called hurty words, but the boat crossings would stop. Tell me why our government can't?

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Its not so much putting my faith in the democratic system, but more like what choice do any of us have?

All I know is that trying to fix a supposedly democratic system, by using more of the same broken democracy, just isn't going to work.

It's like using sellotape to fix a leaky water pipe.

15 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

What would you suggest, a violent revolution ?

You're probably expecting me to say no, but a revolution of sorts is likely the only way to gain real change, it doesn't have to be violent,  a kind of non conformity amongst enough people could easily topple a sitting government and make them realise they work for us, not the other way round.

Think of it like unions going on strike, or everyone flatly refusing to pay council tax ?

They can't lock everyone up.

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

The population of Africa is about 1.6 Billion. Because of rapid population growth there are more people than the land / local economy can support in many places.

Africa has enough land and resources for twice that population, if the leaders of the African nations weren't so concerned about lining their own pockets ,while suckling at the teats of China, Russia and the US, they could turn the continent into a global powerhouse.

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It's certainly a huge problem that is not going to go away anytime soon. Even more reason why the UK trying to cut itself off from the rest of the civilised world looks like a stupid move. 

It's a huge country too, but it certainly isn't OUR  problem.

[oowee]

55 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Quite the opposite, simple solution, drop anyone arriving here illegally straight back to France. There would be lots of howls about human rights, the UK would be called hurty words, but the boat crossings would stop. Tell me why our government can't?

Because we are on our own. We are small the world is big and we have very few friends. The Tories on the tiller are a nightmare going in circles.  The country is both broke and broken. 

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

Quite the opposite, simple solution, drop anyone arriving here illegally straight back to France. There would be lots of howls about human rights, the UK would be called hurty words, but the boat crossings would stop. Tell me why our government can't?

Because the French absolutely and categorically refuse to take them back.

It's been suggested many times, it's the obvious answer but France won't allow it.

There is little doubt it would work and in a very short time the migrants would stop travelling to Calais and living in the camps while trying to cross. Once the word got out.

Instead France won't cooperate

[London Best]

The SAS/SBS should be sent in, either sinking a few boats or snatching the occupants and returning them to France. The government, of course, could and would deny any knowledge of the operation.

[armsid]

And you think Starmer has the solution to stopping them?

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Because the French absolutely and categorically refuse to take them back.

It's been suggested many times, it's the obvious answer but France won't allow it.

There is little doubt it would work and in a very short time the migrants would stop travelling to Calais and living in the camps while trying to cross. Once the word got out.

Instead France won't cooperate

Can you fault them? Many here would do the same if they were simply passing through the UK to get to another third country. 

[dabbers]

a good salvo across the bows,,

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

The SAS/SBS should be sent in, either sinking a few boats or snatching the occupants and returning them to France. The government, of course, could and would deny any knowledge of the operation.

Why not just send them to Rwanda and they can have their application processed legally and properly there ?

Other countries do it

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

It's certainly a huge problem that is not going to go away anytime soon. Even more reason why the UK trying to cut itself off from the rest of the civilised world looks like a stupid move. 

Other countries are doing similar things. Its not just UK. The problem is there is no unified strategy which is absolutely typical of the EU.

It's a text book example of everything that's wrong with the EU. No mechanism for decision making 

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Other countries are doing similar things. Its not just UK. The problem is there is no unified strategy which is absolutely typical of the EU.

It's a text book example of everything that's wrong with the EU. No mechanism for decision making 

? Its a Nation decision nowt to do with the EU. 

 

[oowee]

Speaking of National decisions I had to laugh at Rwanda telling the UK that It must abide by international rules. It says something when we are reduced to grasping at the back of the pack 🤣

Impressive that more ministers have been to Rwanda than migrants. Whats the betting that the compensation payments exceed the cost of the advance payments? 

[Vince Green]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

? Its a Nation decision nowt to do with the EU. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

? Its a Nation decision nowt to do with the EU. 

 

If the EU was dealing with the problems at the point of entry, every point of entry, in a unified manner. We and the rest of Europe wouldn't have the situation we all collectively find ourselves in.

But instead we have silence, deafening silence 

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

 

If the EU was dealing with the problems at the point of entry, every point of entry, in a unified manner. We and the rest of Europe wouldn't have the situation we all collectively find ourselves in.

But instead we have silence, deafening silence 

🤣 Seriously? We chose to leave. Cast ourselves adrift.

We might as well complain about the direction the tide is running. 

Its everyone else that's to blame. 🤣

We need to man up stop blaming everyone else. Accept that the matter is getting worse and start to come up with new ideas. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by oowee

[Rewulf]

43 minutes ago, oowee said:

Can you fault them? Many here would do the same if they were simply passing through the UK to get to another third country. 

How 'many' UK citizens have claimed asylum in other countries? 

Why don't you give it a whirl Grant, see how you get on, this country is after all, in your own words, 'broken' 😉

[oowee]

? lost me on that one. 

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

How 'many' UK citizens have claimed asylum in other countries? 

Why don't you give it a whirl Grant, see how you get on, this country is after all, in your own words, 'broken' 😉

 

[ditchman]

if anybody thinks this can be sorted using the present politicle system ...is seriously deluded..........

this will only be sorted if there is some catalclismic change in how this country is run for the benifit of its inhabitants

[Rewulf]

53 minutes ago, oowee said:

? lost me on that one. 

 

If this country is so bad, why don't you flee the place to a better one?

A bit like the boat people are fleeing from France. 

I might drive to Switzerland, claim asylum, on account that the UK is an economic ruin, and my political beliefs aren't popular, or try the Albanian method, say I've got debts, so I need a new start. 

Should be OK shouldn't it? 

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

Because we are on our own. We are small the world is big and we have very few friends. The Tories on the tiller are a nightmare going in circles.  The country is both broke and broken. 

What utter nonsense, we have a huge number of friends across the globe and a similarity in trade and systems thanks to our old commonwealth, while the EU economy shrinks, many in the rest of the world is expanding, the EU need us more than we need them! Case in point Australia did it and they are doing fine, I remember the babies being hung off the side of boats by migrants demanding to be let in or they'd throw them off.

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

All I know is that trying to fix a supposedly democratic system, by using more of the same broken democracy, just isn't going to work.

It's like using sellotape to fix a leaky water pipe.

You're probably expecting me to say no, but a revolution of sorts is likely the only way to gain real change, it doesn't have to be violent,  a kind of non conformity amongst enough people could easily topple a sitting government and make them realise they work for us, not the other way round.

Think of it like unions going on strike, or everyone flatly refusing to pay council tax ?

They can't lock everyone up.

Africa has enough land and resources for twice that population, if the leaders of the African nations weren't so concerned about lining their own pockets ,while suckling at the teats of China, Russia and the US, they could turn the continent into a global powerhouse.

It's a huge country too, but it certainly isn't OUR  problem.

Histroy would probably agree with you, although I still believe it worth trying a different vote, what have we got to loose.

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Because the French absolutely and categorically refuse to take them back.

It's been suggested many times, it's the obvious answer but France won't allow it.

There is little doubt it would work and in a very short time the migrants would stop travelling to Calais and living in the camps while trying to cross. Once the word got out.

Instead France won't cooperate

We don't need France to allow it, if I jumped over to France and refused to leave, I'm sure they'd very quickly kick me out.

We simply immediately boot anyone arriving here straight back, what are the french going to do, go to war with us.

[oowee]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

If this country is so bad, why don't you flee the place to a better one?

A bit like the boat people are fleeing from France. 

I might drive to Switzerland, claim asylum, on account that the UK is an economic ruin, and my political beliefs aren't popular, or try the Albanian method, say I've got debts, so I need a new start. 

Should be OK shouldn't it? 

The point I was making is that if the boat migrant situation were reversed and migrants were using Britain as a stepping off point, that few here would try to persuade them otherwise. We cannot blame France for problems of our making.