The Met

[Westley]

50 minutes ago, oowee said:

I really struggle to watch it. I consider myself tolerant of most but I find this excruciating. There is so much going wrong here at a victim level. Inadequate, policing, social services, sentencing, victim support the list goes on. How have we got all of this stuff so wrong? 

 

I cannot understand why we don't choose subjects that directly support UK plc and just fund them directly. Stem subjects as a starter should be free for those that secure a 2/1 or higher. 

I haven't seen any 'inadequate Policing', in fact , quite the reverse. It is apparent that you 'Struggle' to watch it  !  What I have seen is hours of Police work gone to waste because of a sadly lacking CPS. It sums it up when hundreds of hours are spent following a gang responsible for vicious Robberies, just so they can catch them 'red handed' , having just carried out another vicious attack inside someone's home. All to get sufficient evidence to prosecute them  ??

Edited November 29, 2023 by Westley

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, sportsbob said:

And there is the perfect example why Uni should not be funded by the tax payer.

The rest of the world disagrees with you.  In STEM subjects at least.

1 hour ago, oowee said:

I cannot understand why we don't choose subjects that directly support UK plc and just fund them directly. Stem subjects as a starter should be free for those that secure a 2/1 or higher. 

Exactly, though there should be a 'remain an employed/self-employed UK taxpayer for x years to qualify' stipulation, where x is some multiple of the course duration, say 1.5.

5 hours ago, spanj said:

So it does work ! Not perfectly but nothing does !

Eh?  Did you even read my post?

It works as a massively expensive YTS with some military capability thrown in, and anything remotely technical is done by professionals. Every military expert going admires it, as a relic of a bygone age, but there's better value to be had for the tax payer.

But then what would I know?  I came back from Switzerland to my native UK to study, thus exempting me from service, so I guess I must be one of those draft-dodgers that would've had my ideas bucked up a good stint at the Rekrutenschule. 😁

Actually, had they introduced the do-it-all-in-one-go option before I started my career, I would've taken it, for CV building purposes you understand.

Finally, yes, I did hand the keep-at-home cadet rifle back before I left.  SIG 550, 'limited' to 3-shot fire, by dint of a rivet through the fire-rate selector detent.  Imagine handing 15yo's in this country that...definitely wouldn't have a knife-crime problem at any rate.

[discobob]

The company that I am just leaving has just recruited a graduate - the ones that were coming with a "relevant" degree were not right for the role (they wanted to be Data Scientists etc) so the company then went to recruit someone with a degree, and recruited one with a Maths degree with very little applicable knowledge to the job and took him on at 27K - way too much for a trainee but he had a degree - and I could have found better more than likely from a job center - without a degree

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

 

 

I cannot understand why we don't choose subjects that directly support UK plc and just fund them directly. Stem subjects as a starter should be free for those that secure a 2/1 or higher. 

What a good idea!

[sportsbob]

3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

The rest of the world disagrees with you.  In STEM subjects at least.

 

Are you saying the rest of the world think Uni should be paid for by the tax payer ?

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, discobob said:

27K - way too much for a trainee but he had a degree

How much do you think it's acceptable to pay a grad or trainee?  27k is hardly top end for grads, and sweet FA to live in any major conurbation.

58 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

Are you saying the rest of the world think Uni should be paid for by the tax payer ?

Most industrialised countries accept they need STEM grads for the benefit of their own economy and thus fund them somehow, such that they entice those who have the requisite skills and do not need to take on mountains of debt.   Insane that we're so short-sighted in this country.

Of course, if you extend that funding model to humanities degrees in advanced basket-weaving or David Beckham studies, then you're doing it wrong...

[amateur]

4 hours ago, discobob said:

The company that I am just leaving has just recruited a graduate - the ones that were coming with a "relevant" degree were not right for the role (they wanted to be Data Scientists etc) so the company then went to recruit someone with a degree, and recruited one with a Maths degree with very little applicable knowledge to the job and took him on at 27K - way too much for a trainee but he had a degree - and I could have found better more than likely from a job center - without a degree

Check out the career of Sir Stanley Hooker, a mathematics graduate recruited by Rolls Royce in the 1930s, with no relevant experience in engine making, whatsoever.

His autobiography is titled "Not much of an engineer".

[shaun4860]

10 hours ago, Scully said:

Fair enough. I was only puzzled as to these authorities spouting off about the usefulness of universities and those who attended, but whom hadn’t actually been. 
Anyhow, to get back on topic I watched last nights episode, filled with coppers let down by victims who won’t press charges and a judicial system seemingly with a default setting of keeping people out of prison. 

That puzzled me, why call the police and not press charges.

I know it must be easy to look from the outside and say this without experiencing what they’re going through but something must be done 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Scully]

5 hours ago, discobob said:

The company that I am just leaving has just recruited a graduate - the ones that were coming with a "relevant" degree were not right for the role (they wanted to be Data Scientists etc) so the company then went to recruit someone with a degree, and recruited one with a Maths degree with very little applicable knowledge to the job and took him on at 27K - way too much for a trainee but he had a degree - and I could have found better more than likely from a job center - without a degree

My daughter recently got offered a job with the Newcastle Building Society on the strength of her being a graduate. She has a Masters in Fine Art. She also has a lot of relevant experience ( but no qualifications ) in retail as a result of the various jobs she undertook while at uni’. 🤷‍♂️
 

[Scully]

29 minutes ago, shaun4860 said:

That puzzled me, why call the police and not press charges.

I know it must be easy to look from the outside and say this without experiencing what they’re going through but something must be done 🤷🏻‍♂️

It’s often the way apparently. Possibly with other small children and no income and nowhere to go, they’re frightened of the repercussions of pressing charges. 
A sad and tragic position to be in, until one day it goes too far and he kills her? 
I wouldn't last five minutes as a copper; first case of this I attended I’d be wanting to give the bloke a good hiding. 😄

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, shaun4860 said:

That puzzled me, why call the police and not press charges.

Because that’s “not a thing” - it is the CPS who decides whether to proceed with a prosecution.

It’s often used as a shorthand for “the alleged victim didn’t cooperate with the police in their inquiries, so there was no realistic chance of a successful prosecution”, even by people who should know better, viz. journalists.

Just one of those legal myths that refuses to die, like judges having gavels.

https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/blogs/no-gavels-please-were-british

Edited November 29, 2023 by udderlyoffroad

[sportsbob]

16 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Most industrialised countries accept they need STEM grads for the benefit of their own economy and thus fund them somehow, such that they entice those who have the requisite skills and do not need to take on mountains of debt.   Insane that we're so short-sighted in this country.

Of course, if you extend that funding model to humanities degrees in advanced basket-weaving or David Beckham studies, then you're doing it wrong...

That`s better "most", however as it has previously been pointed out in this thread commonly a majority of the students did not use their education for the purpose of obtaining it. In my family which is quite small we have one such person that has spent a significant part of her life going to Uni to avoid going to work and now at the age she is (almost 60) is unemployable. 

[Westley]

15 hours ago, shaun4860 said:

That puzzled me, why call the police and not press charges.

I know it must be easy to look from the outside and say this without experiencing what they’re going through but something must be done 🤷🏻‍♂️

If you are being mentally and physically abused constantly,  but have nowhere to run to except onto the streets, which often involves dragging young children with you, WHO else is there to turn to  ?  The problem is, you just want that abuse to stop and it usually follows alcohol and/or drugs crazed binges, by the removal of the Offender, the situation calms. Then the problem re occurs, with 'INTEREST' the next day, often leading to a death of one partner or the other, the "You got me locked up" principle applys. Some, mostly Female, will see it through to Court, but custodial sentences rarely follow. More usual is a restraing order, and that is quite useless. I have always come down on the side of the victim in these cases, and would try to arrest the Offender whenever possible. The case very rarely makes Court, due to a retracted statement, the victim fearing far worse if they see it through. I can speak with some experience on these incidents, as I witnessed it first hand occurring to my eldest daughter in her first marriage.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by Westley

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, Westley said:

If you are being mentally and physically abused constantly,  but have nowhere to run to except onto the streets, which often involves dragging young children with you, WHO else is there to turn to  ?  The problem is, you just want that abuse to stop and it usually follows alcohol and/or drugs crazed binges, by the removal of the Offender, the situation calms. Then the problem re occurs, with 'INTEREST' the next day, often leading to a death of one partner or the other, the "You got me locked up" principle applys. Some, mostly Female, will see it through to Court, but custodial sentences rarely follow. More usual is a restraing order, and that is quite useless. I have always come down on the side of the victim in these cases, and would try to arrest the Offender whenever possible. The case very rarely makes Court, due to a retracted statement, the victim fearing far worse if they see it through. I can speak with some experience on these incidents, as I witnessed it first hand occurring to my eldest daughter in her first marriage.  

I have seen this too with my sister. It was hard to understand why she persisted with the problem. It was only resolved with a frank exchange with her partner, on my parents door step, involving a clash with the garden wall. 

My sister never went back. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by oowee

[Westley]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

I have seen this too with my sister. It was hard to understand why she persisted with the problem. It was only resolved with a frank exchange with her partner, on my parents door step, involving a clash with the garden wall. 

My sister never went 

I think they believe that they can change them, for the better. The truth is, they can't.

[London Best]

1 minute ago, Westley said:

I think they believe that they can change them, for the better. The truth is, they can't.

Nothing to do with abuse, but just generally, the number of women who take up with a man who is not quite what they want and then try to change him is unbelievable. And it rarely works.

1 minute ago, Westley said:

I

 

[Westley]

20 minutes ago, London Best said:

Nothing to do with abuse, but just generally, the number of women who take up with a man who is not quite what they want and then try to change him is unbelievable. And it rarely works.

 

In my Daughters case, we tried to advise her but at 17 they know everything. Strangely enough, her eldest Daughter, her first child, is very much like her Father  !   🙄

[discobob]

20 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

How much do you think it's acceptable to pay a grad or trainee?  27k is hardly top end for grads, and sweet FA to live in any major conurbation.

This was supposed to be an apprenticeship role - for me it is a case of no relevant degree so has to show that he has the aptitude for the job - and would expect him to get regular, hefty payrises when he moves up to junior, and then to DBA....however, not my problem now. However, he was officially unemployed - not recruited straight from Uni

I just took umbridge at the total blinkers they had towards recruiting only graduates, when there were people within the company, and also more than likely non-graduates - who could have filled the role with more knowledge - be it business or technical.....

18 hours ago, amateur said:

Check out the career of Sir Stanley Hooker, a mathematics graduate recruited by Rolls Royce in the 1930s, with no relevant experience in engine making, whatsoever.

His autobiography is titled "Not much of an engineer".

One of the best guys I have known technically - had an History degree......

Edited November 30, 2023 by discobob

[London Best]

27 minutes ago, discobob said:

This was supposed to be an apprenticeship role - for me it is a case of no relevant degree so has to show that he has the aptitude for the job - and would expect him to get regular, hefty payrises when he moves up to junior, and then to DBA....however, not my problem now. However, he was officially unemployed - not recruited straight from Uni

I just took umbridge at the total blinkers they had towards recruiting only graduates, when there were people within the company, and also more than likely non-graduates - who could have filled the role with more knowledge - be it business or technical.....

One of the best guys I have known technically - had an History degree......

There is a big difference between ‘clever’ and ‘educated’.

[discobob]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

There is a big difference between ‘clever’ and ‘educated’.

You only have to look at Parliament to confirm that