agcd Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 I've been informed that my application is not likely to be accepted due to medication that I take. I am asking for further information but I think it is because potential side effects include anxiety/depression. Has anyone else heard of this? I feel like there must be loads of medications that have anxiety or depression listed as side effects, so it seems a bit odd to be turned down for this reason. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsid Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Are you a member of any organisation like BASC? If so then contact them and get advice this ruling could take everyone,s SGC/FAC in one swoop. Every med for B/P gives some sort of side effect Perhaps Connor o Gorman could give an insight into this far reaching problem He posts in this section regularly and is very helpful getting advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Are you certain it is the side effects of the medication or the reasons for taking the medication? You have come to a conclusion which may or may not be accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 1 hour ago, agcd said: I've been informed that my application is not likely to be accepted due to medication that I take. I am asking for further information but I think it is because potential side effects include anxiety/depression. Has anyone else heard of this? I feel like there must be loads of medications that have anxiety or depression listed as side effects, so it seems a bit odd to be turned down for this reason. Thanks You’re right. Get in touch with your shooting representative and see what they suggest. Most medications give a list of ‘potential’ side effects as long as your arm. If this were a valid reason to refuse then taking paracetamol must be up there too. Whatever you do, don’t tell them you like a drink! Bonkers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agcd Posted March 20 Author Report Share Posted March 20 6 minutes ago, armsid said: Are you a member of any organisation like BASC? If so then contact them and get advice this ruling could take everyone,s SGC/FAC in one swoop. Every med for B/P gives some sort of side effect Perhaps Connor o Gorman could give an insight into this far reaching problem He posts in this section regularly and is very helpful getting advice Thanks for your reply. No I'm not a member unfortunately although I would consider if they could help. Yes, it seems very odd to me for that reason. I've asked them to clarify what the actual grounds for refusal would be so shall see how they respond. 1 minute ago, Gordon R said: Are you certain it is the side effects of the medication or the reasons for taking the medication? You have come to a conclusion which may or may not be accurate. A valid point and I have explicitly asked the FEO to clarify. Not sure I want to give too much away though incase they browse on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 They do browse on here, but if you are open and honest, that should not be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agcd Posted March 20 Author Report Share Posted March 20 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Gordon R said: They do browse on here, but if you are open and honest, that should not be a problem. It is medication for ADHD that I have recently started taking. FEO suggested re-reviewing my application in the future to allow time to see how I respond to the medication, which is why I'm not sure if it is the condition or the medication (or both?) that could be causing the issue. I don't need to take the pills but I'm trying it out to see if it helps focus at work. Nothing provided on my medical proforma or from my ADHD specialist suggested I wouldn't be suitable for an SGC. Will wait and see I suppose but was certainly surprised to hear that I might be refused. Thanks all for the input so far. Edited March 20 by agcd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 I assume the FEO would be concerned about some of the symptoms of ADHD - risk taking, impatience, self control, acting on impulse. These may not affect you, but I suspect that you would need strong support from your GP. I have no wish to dampen your enthusiasm, but am trying to be realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agcd Posted March 20 Author Report Share Posted March 20 5 minutes ago, Gordon R said: I assume the FEO would be concerned about some of the symptoms of ADHD - risk taking, impatience, self control, acting on impulse. These may not affect you, but I suspect that you would need strong support from your GP. I have no wish to dampen your enthusiasm, but am trying to be realistic. Fair enough! ADHD specialist was actually pretty positive about it in the letter to the FEO which is why it is surprising, combined with the fact I've got a stable homelife and career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 If your GP and ADHD specialist are satisfied that you should be granted a shotgun certificate, I wish you well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agcd Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 Update: Got a response from the FEO. They have confirmed the refusal at this point would be due to the ADHD medication and wanting to see how it would impact my mood. Have suggested reapplying once I've been on it for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Welcome to Pigeon Watch, not sure how you'll be able to fight that one. Which Shooting Association are you a Member of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HantsRob Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 The only recourse from this point is to speak to your GP and/or specialist as Gordon suggested. If they are satisfied you pose no risk to yourself or others, then you have a fair right to appeal. Did you see your medical form, or did it go direct from GP to force? If you saw it, consider what that said also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agcd Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Welcome to Pigeon Watch, not sure how you'll be able to fight that one. Which Shooting Association are you a Member of? Thanks, and none 2 minutes ago, HantsRob said: The only recourse from this point is to speak to your GP and/or specialist as Gordon suggested. If they are satisfied you pose no risk to yourself or others, then you have a fair right to appeal. Did you see your medical form, or did it go direct from GP to force? If you saw it, consider what that said also. Yes have seen both the proforma and the specialist's letter. Nothing bad on either. Specialist letter doesn't even mention any side effects of the medication Edited March 21 by agcd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Shot Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 If you're only taking the medication to help focus while at work could you simply not take the medication? I know I wouldn't be taking a medication with potential side effects to help further satisfy an employer (unless that employer is yourself of course). Ultimately there are 10's of thousands if not 100's of thousands of people in the UK who have undiagnosed ADHD and are unaware. Some of those will be perfectly functioning firearms holders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 4 minutes ago, Poor Shot said: If you're only taking the medication to help focus while at work could you simply not take the medication? I know I wouldn't be taking a medication with potential side effects to help further satisfy an employer (unless that employer is yourself of course). Ultimately there are 10's of thousands if not 100's of thousands of people in the UK who have undiagnosed ADHD and are unaware. Some of those will be perfectly functioning firearms holders. I would suspect that if the answer were to be simply not taking prescribed medicine and that the FEO were to become aware of that, it might end with a definite NO, rather than a take it and we will look at it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agcd Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Poor Shot said: If you're only taking the medication to help focus while at work could you simply not take the medication? I know I wouldn't be taking a medication with potential side effects to help further satisfy an employer (unless that employer is yourself of course). Ultimately there are 10's of thousands if not 100's of thousands of people in the UK who have undiagnosed ADHD and are unaware. Some of those will be perfectly functioning firearms holders. Yeah exactly, really frustrating for this reason. It feels like I'm being penalised for seeking help in a way. Been very open the whole time and the diagnosis was ongoing while they were reviewing my application. I only wanted to trial the medication to see if it helped my symptoms but as you say, I've got this far in life without it! 2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: I would suspect that if the answer were to be simply not taking prescribed medicine and that the FEO were to become aware of that, it might end with a definite NO, rather than a take it and we will look at it again. But then if they have said it is the medication not the condition causing the refusal (in writing), how could they refuse I stopped the medication? (With support/approval from the Specialist) Edited March 21 by agcd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottletopbill Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 One guy went to a private Doctor to get his med cert completed . The Doctor asked him if he could not shoot would he be depressed he answered yes to depression. He as now lost his cert. Please all be so careful about the D word License now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Shot Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 4 minutes ago, agcd said: Yeah exactly, really frustrating for this reason. It feels like I'm being penalised for seeking help in a way. Been very open the whole time and the diagnosis was ongoing while they were reviewing my application. I only wanted to trial the medication to see if it helped my symptoms but as you say, I've got this far in life without it! But then if they have said it is the medication not the condition causing the refusal (in writing), how could they refuse I stopped the medication? (With support/approval from the Specialist) This is a symptom of the whole Jake Davison/ Southampton incident. As the police aren't an expert in the field of ADHD and associated medications they have to side with caution rather than take the risk. As the medication is optional then (IMO only) I wouldn't take it stating that the potential side effects are undesirable and discuss that with your FEO. State that you were exploring the possibilities of the medication providing an increase to your quality of life and since the potential side effects outweigh the potential benefits you have decided against it. If your specialist is exactly that and not one just trying to sell a medication then they should also support you in that and be happy to adjust their recommendation to the FEO accordingly. ADHD is not depression or any other sort of mental illness which would preclude you from having a certificate. Its the potential depression side effect that the police are worried about. Though you do now have the added complication that the FEO has made a decision and will take some persuasion to change that and they'll likely stick to the 'give it a few years and try again' line regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agcd Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Poor Shot said: This is a symptom of the whole Jake Davison/ Southampton incident. As the police aren't an expert in the field of ADHD and associated medications they have to side with caution rather than take the risk. As the medication is optional then (IMO only) I wouldn't take it stating that the potential side effects are undesirable and discuss that with your FEO. State that you were exploring the possibilities of the medication providing an increase to your quality of life and since the potential side effects outweigh the potential benefits you have decided against it. If your specialist is exactly that and not one just trying to sell a medication then they should also support you in that and be happy to adjust their recommendation to the FEO accordingly. ADHD is not depression or any other sort of mental illness which would preclude you from having a certificate. Its the potential depression side effect that the police are worried about. Though you do now have the added complication that the FEO has made a decision and will take some persuasion to change that and they'll likely stick to the 'give it a few years and try again' line regardless. Thanks, yeah considering what to do currently. FEO said can cancel the application now and get a refund, or escalate to their manager. Edited March 21 by agcd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 8 minutes ago, agcd said: FEO said can cancel the application now and get a refund, or escalate to their manager. go one better fire of letters to both chief constable and feo manager demanding an explanation how the feo is making such a decision when the medically qualified have voiced no concern over your medication or fitness and be prepared for a fight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 I am unsure what escalating to a manager will achieve, as he will obviously take heed of what the FEO says. Withdrawing now or escalation seem to go against the -we will see how it goes with the effects of medication etc. I think the FEO is trying to bring you down gently and you might well struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agcd Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: I am unsure what escalating to a manager will achieve, as he will obviously take heed of what the FEO says. Withdrawing now or escalation seem to go against the -we will see how it goes with the effects of medication etc. I think the FEO is trying to bring you down gently and you might well struggle. Still considering but feels like I have nothing to lose by escalating. They can just say no too. So then I wait a year to reapply (turns into a year and a half by the time they get around to my application), spend a another £200 on doctor forms, only to find out that I get refused again... Very frustrating considering that I can't see how medication side effects are relevant to any of the guidance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 14 minutes ago, agcd said: Still considering but feels like I have nothing to lose by escalating. They can just say no too. exactly by not taking it further you accept the feo is correct my advise comes from several wins not just my own only loss is same person who took the lets be nice and cooperate option he’s full of regret now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Please dont take this the wrong way, but you have been diagnosed with ADHD for a behavioural or symptomatic reason, you mention lack of focus, for which medication has been offered. Whilst your GP is supportive of your application, they or the police do not know you well enough to ascertain whether you would pose a risk if you were granted an SGC. This is what its all about , level of risk, your doctor on one hand sees no issue, but firearms licencing see the combination of your condition, and medication as such. They tend to not take chances where public safety is concerned, and weigh up the possibilities of something going wrong , more so since the Plymouth murders. Take the medication, see how you go on, and re apply further down the line, I see no point in escalating it at this time, when no one knows what the medication will do, especially if it is a Ritalin style drug. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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