General Council rip offs

[Minky]

It seems that ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to do with the councils is a rip off. Underhanded and duplicitous. 

1.  Garden waste bin... Two years ago it was £40. This next year it is £60.

2. car parks.  They have all been linked to Ringo so if you use this option, not only do you pay the excessive fee for the car park but you get loaded with the ringo surcharge

3.  public toilets.  Nearly all public toilets have been closed or even sold off for various purposes.  Recently I was up in London at a Royal Park and there was a public toilet avaliable but it had entry flap gates.  The entry cost was 20p.  But you couldn't use cash you had to use either card or phone payment.... for20p. 

4.  This afternoon we went to the coast with one of our daughters.  They decided to go to a fish and chip shop.  There is a carpark behind the shop that used to be free but now there is a camera that monitors your entry and exit.   The fee is a minimum of 40p for half an hour... cash.  If you use a card this ramps up to £1.40 for half an hour.   Now in our local small town the plague is traffic wardens.  It used to be really busy and it was difficult to find a parking space but  now there are lots of spaces. People either buy online or...and get their groceries delivered.  The result of this is that all of the shops are closing down making it even less likely that shoppers come into town and the council gets less income from shop rates.

[JohnfromUK]

7 hours ago, Minky said:

2. car parks.  They have all been linked to Ringo so if you use this option, not only do you pay the excessive fee for the car park but you get loaded with the ringo surcharge

Our local town car parks have Ringo, and I use it.  I'm pretty sure there is no surcharge.  It works well (and easily) and does give you a record you have paid.

I do agree that overall councils are trying to bleed the public dry.  We used to get 1st hour of parking free (great for a trip to the bank, or quick visit by people from industrial estates in their lunch hours (which I used to do before retirement), but no free hour anymore.

[Lloyd90]

Yes it’s such a rip off they’re rolling in your money. 
 

https://theconversation.com/one-in-five-councils-at-risk-of-bankruptcy-what-happens-after-local-authorities-run-out-of-money-222541

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/14/englands-councils-bankrupt-westminster

Like I’ve said before, either our expectation of public services is too high or we (as a collective country) aren’t paying enough in.
 

(And yes some of the cost will be down to inefficiency / bad management… but show me a company that’s 100% efficient!). 

At least Labour are saying the multi millionaires / billionaires should start paying some tax instead of harbouring their money in off shore accounts and paying less than a nurse on PAYE. 

 

 

[Imperfection]

Our garden waste bin is a little cheaper at £54 but many local households have not taken it up. Its very clear from the lack of green wheelie bins not put out for collection.

I work in Peteboghorror amongst other places (i dont live there though) and they've had this garden waste extra charge for several years now which obviously hasn't gone down too well with the natives. As a result-flytipping increased all over the city where i see bags of grass cuttings dumped in bus shelters. The only people i do see are the wombles (members of public wearing hiviz bibs picking up rubbish) which is absolutely pointless as it requires a dedicated team constantly doing it as the place is too big for three people.

However, places like nearby Cambridge are generally clean so they're doing something right.

[ph5172]

I pay for my green bin. I think it was £40 this year. 
I find this much easier than booking (we still have to) a tip run to dispose of the grass and bush cuttings or trying to hide it double bagged in the normal waste (as some must do due to the amount of gardens vs green bins - unless they top up mine the night it goes out - of which in all honesty wouldn’t bother me) 

Edited May 26 by ph5172

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

At least Labour are saying the multi millionaires / billionaires should start paying some tax instead of harbouring their money in off shore accounts and paying less than a nurse on PAYE.

The vast majority of these "multi millionaires / billionaires" are only following the laws and rules set up by Parliament.  You can't criticise people for following the rules to minimise their bills.  IF people break the rules, they should be penalised, but the rules as they stand now allow people to reduce their tax payments by 'offshore' means.

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, ph5172 said:

I pay for my green bin. I think it was £40 this year. 
I find this much easier than booking (we still have to) a tip run to dispose of the grass and bush cuttings or trying to hide it double bagged in the normal waste (as some must do due to the amount of gardens vs green bins - unless they top up mine the night it goes out - of which in all honesty wouldn’t bother me) 

I'm not sure what ours costs as I don't have one.  I 'bonfire' woody brash (which I did yesterday).  I choose the day when there is a south or east wind, and then the smoke goes over no other properties.  Because my garden has several large (and 'untouchable' as we are in a conservation area) trees, I typically have a huge quantity of prunings.  In the last week, I have had a couple of barrow loads of small 'logs', which have gone to a neighbour to season for firewood, and burned maybe 5 cwt of thinner 'brash'.  To have enough bins to take that would be very costly and only needed at peak times of the year.

Grass cuttings I don't collect.

[Yellow Bear]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

And yes some of the cost will be down to inefficiency / bad management… but show me a company that’s 100% efficient!). 

Show me a state run body that is even 50% efficient

At least Labour are saying the multi millionaires / billionaires should start paying some tax instead of harbouring their money in off shore accounts and paying less than a nurse on PAYE. 

Typical Labour quote however as someone said "you don't  make the poor richer by making the rich poor."

A lot of money is wasted on non jobs for mates or to appear to be PC, and on vanity projects as well as gross inefficiency. 

[Vince Green]

A massive amount of Council budget goes on various aspects of social care that the councils have assumed responsibility for. It never used to be part of their remit to get involved in stuff like that.

If they concentrated on core responsibilities like schools, roads, bins etc and left charities to run the rest like thay do in other countries it would be better for everybody.

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

The vast majority of these "multi millionaires / billionaires" are only following the laws and rules set up by Parliament.  You can't criticise people for following the rules to minimise their bills.  IF people break the rules, they should be penalised, but the rules as they stand now allow people to reduce their tax payments by 'offshore' means.

And often, because of international free movement the money is often earned abroad.

Rishi Sunak's wife came in for a lot of criticism because she paid no tax in this country. The wealth she has is because she has shares in her father's company in India. It stays in India and never touches these shores.

If Starmer thinks he is going to make the likes of the Saudi Royal family pay tax in this country he is absolutely deluded.

Whipping up envy against the rich will just drive them out of the country. Then we lose the benefit of all the cash they spend here now.

Big own goal

[Yellow Bear]

10 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Whipping up envy against the rich will just drive them out of the country. Then we lose the benefit of all the cash they spend here now.

Big own goal

But a typical leiboor tactic.

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

But a typical leiboor tactic.

Absolutely, but it has been a very successful one for them.  The grass is always greener .......

Starmer and Dodds are going to 'get tough' on tax evasion (and by evasion I mean illegally avoiding tax).  I think everyone would welcome that ....... but it is very hard to do - and I suspect won't bring in much real additional money, especially as a large number of staff will be needed to make any headway at all.

They are going to tighten the rules on off shore and 'non dom' status etc.  Again, I think everyone (except possibly those involved) would welcome that - Sunak/Hunt were also planning that - but some will go fully overseas, some really do own and keep all their money overseas (none ever comes here).  Again - my guess is that very little will be realised.

They are going to get more tax from BIG international firms, and by this they mean (I think) the likes of Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon etc.  Well - those firms are truly international and they will simply move virtually all of their business activities overseas (e.g. to Ireland) and only maintain a small and largely 'non profitable' distribution network over here.  If the UK makes it uneconomic to do things here, there are plenty of places where countries will give them very good trading conditions in return for providing employment and modest tax payments there.  Car firms (Ineos, JLR, Honda etc.) have set up their new production facilities elsewhere and just retail their products here.

And yet ..... every time Starmer and Dodds promise more money for the NHS, Teachers, Education, Doctors, Defence, Transport, Water and sewage treatment works, Green Projects - we are told it's coming from taxing non doms, windfall taxes on energy companies (who simply put it back on the price of electricity, gas, oil, petrol, diesel).

I cannot see the sums adding up at all - and they have not even really tried to show what's planned to be spent and how it is to be paid for - I've seen no figures.  All we are told is that it will be done 'responsibly'.  Maybe responsibly like Blair and Brown spending all the cash in the treasury and selling off all the gold reserves at the lowest possible price point.

[Lloyd90]

3 hours ago, Vince Green said:

A massive amount of Council budget goes on various aspects of social care that the councils have assumed responsibility for. It never used to be part of their remit to get involved in stuff like that.

If they concentrated on core responsibilities like schools, roads, bins etc and left charities to run the rest like thay do in other countries it would be better for everybody.

They haven’t ‘assumed’ responsibility for it, it’s a legal requirement that they are responsible for it through various pieces of legislation. 
 

Republic of Ireland doesn’t have an NHS. 
 

My friends aunt was dying of cancer, she got a nurse visit about once a fortnight. In between she was left at home alone and her elderly husband / family had to do it. 
 

Here in the UK people refuse to take on the role of the carer for relatives and say it’s not their job and refuse to do it. I see it often in my job. 

I’m not saying either way is ideal, but as usual, we have the expectation here in the UK that the Government should sort it out. 
 

Then they moan if the persons got tons of money/ a house worth several hundred thousand and is expected to pay for the care. 

 

[Lloyd90]

7 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

The vast majority of these "multi millionaires / billionaires" are only following the laws and rules set up by Parliament.  You can't criticise people for following the rules to minimise their bills.  IF people break the rules, they should be penalised, but the rules as they stand now allow people to reduce their tax payments by 'offshore' means.

Yes, but you also have to appreciate that these same multi millionaires / billionaires are the ones that fund the political parties with donations, campaign funding, buying media outlets and publicising stories that go in their interests. 
 

The rules we have now have been set by the top 1% to preserve their wealth and property. 
 

The scale of which they could never spend in multiple lifetimes, and their fortunes swell beyond measure whilst everyone else is expected to tighten their belts. 

Sunak himself worth £730,000,000. 
 

Apparently made £4.7m over the last 3 years but only paid 20% tax. 
 

People making several million in ‘profit’ each year only paying 20% capital gains tax whilst someone on PAYE earning just over the 40% threshold gets nailed for almost half of the income. 
 

I know several Nurses, teachers, doctors, builders, paying 40% tax as they have worked very hard in their roles and specialised, yet the PM only pays 20%. 
 

The billionaires who fund the parties aren’t going to change the rules are they? 

[Yellow Bear]

12 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

The billionaires who fund the parties aren’t going to change the rules are they?

But the (unelected) unions that run the country by proxy under a labour government will change the rules so that they have power.  Example is that it almost impossible to sack or hold responsible  the incompetent or lazy in a state run body and the red queen wants to make it impossible.  (Ref the post office as an example)

Edited May 26 by Yellow Bear

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Yes, but you also have to appreciate that these same multi millionaires / billionaires are the ones that fund the political parties with donations, campaign funding, buying media outlets and publicising stories that go in their interests.

Works both ways, the Labour party also gets large donations, mainly from the Trades Unions, but also from wealthy individuals.  In Q2/24 Labour had larger donations from wealthy individuals than Conservatives (see link below).  They just don't like to talk about it.  Blair is also a multi millionaire and his son a very wealthy multi millionaire.  Starmer isn't exactly a pauper.

https://www.tatler.com/article/who-are-the-super-rich-labour-donors-bankrolling-sir-keir-starmer

The idea that the Tories are only funded by the rich and Labour don't take funds from the rich is nonsense.

Money buys influence the world over; always has and always will.

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

They haven’t ‘assumed’ responsibility for it, it’s a legal requirement that they are responsible for it through various pieces of legislation. 

Absolutely not true. They have some responsibility but most councils go far beyond what they are required  to do by law. Hillingdon Council (NW London) have two municipal golf courses.  Both loss making, they used to have a dry ski slope.

 

Republic of Ireland doesn’t have an NHS. 
No other country in Europe has a free health service

My friends aunt was dying of cancer, she got a nurse visit about once a fortnight. In between she was left at home alone and her elderly husband / family had to do it. 

Same in Spain.  A friend of ours died from cancer in Spain last year. He got absolutely nothing in the way of help. If it wasn't for two neighbours who stepped up although they weren't family, he would have died alone
 

Here in the UK people refuse to take on the role of the carer for relatives and say it’s not their job and refuse to do it. I see it often in my job.

that's because you let them get away with it. 

I’m not saying either way is ideal, but as usual, we have the expectation here in the UK that the Government should sort it out. 
 

Then they moan if the persons got tons of money/ a house worth several hundred thousand and is expected to pay for the care. 

 

 

[oowee]

9 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

The vast majority of these "multi millionaires / billionaires" are only following the laws and rules set up by Parliament.  You can't criticise people for following the rules to minimise their bills.  IF people break the rules, they should be penalised, but the rules as they stand now allow people to reduce their tax payments by 'offshore' means.

Not criticising them just want to see the loop holes closed. 

I have mates bringing home well into six figures paying tax at less than the basic rate. 

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

Not criticising them just want to see the loop holes closed.

The Treasury need to make the rules "fit for purpose".  To be fair, BOTH parties have (apparently) wanted to improve the 'take' from this area going back through many parliaments, but for whatever reason, the Treasury have not come up with a viable new legislation as far as I know.

Edited May 26 by JohnfromUK

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Works both ways, the Labour party also gets large donations, mainly from the Trades Unions, but also from wealthy individuals.  In Q2/24 Labour had larger donations from wealthy individuals than Conservatives (see link below).  They just don't like to talk about it.  Blair is also a multi millionaire and his son a very wealthy multi millionaire.  Starmer isn't exactly a pauper.

https://www.tatler.com/article/who-are-the-super-rich-labour-donors-bankrolling-sir-keir-starmer

The idea that the Tories are only funded by the rich and Labour don't take funds from the rich is nonsense.

Money buys influence the world over; always has and always will.

Jeremy Corbyn is multi millionaire too. That's Socialism for you.

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

the Treasury have not come up with a viable new legislation as far as I know.

The senior civil servants don't want it being well into six figures and being party to all the loopholes, so they do what they always do in these circumstances, delay and prevaricate until a change of government when the bill is quietly forgotten for a couple of years.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Yellow Bear said:

The senior civil servants don't want it being well into six figures and being party to all the loopholes, so they do what they always do in these circumstances, delay and prevaricate until a change of government when the bill is quietly forgotten for a couple of years.

I suspect that you are spot on with that.

 

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Works both ways, the Labour party also gets large donations, mainly from the Trades Unions, but also from wealthy individuals.  In Q2/24 Labour had larger donations from wealthy individuals than Conservatives (see link below).  They just don't like to talk about it.  Blair is also a multi millionaire and his son a very wealthy multi millionaire.  Starmer isn't exactly a pauper.

https://www.tatler.com/article/who-are-the-super-rich-labour-donors-bankrolling-sir-keir-starmer

The idea that the Tories are only funded by the rich and Labour don't take funds from the rich is nonsense.

Money buys influence the world over; always has and always will.

I never said the Tories and Labour. 
 

I said the political parties, plural. Both side funded by people in the same echelon. 
 

Labour held power for many years before the Tories. 
 

They also didn’t re-write the tax code to make multi millionaires pay a fairer % same as everyone else. 
 

Personally I’d prefer a flat 20% rate applied to everyone equally!

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Personally I’d prefer a flat 20% rate applied to everyone equally!

Income tax was implemented by William Pitt in 1798.  It was a variable rate even then, from 2d (less than 1%) in the pound on income over £60 and rose to to 2/- (10%) in the pound on income over £200.

[Bigbob]

Back up back up  , You pay to get your garden waste uplifted free here but they stop the fortnightly pickup in October till April when it goes monthly and i thought that was a hardship