Should police land checks be scrapped?

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

What does that have to do with land checks? 

Hello, Would the police not want to make sure there is enough land to shoot on ???, a big difference with FAC Air to a Full Bore Deer rifle, 

[Sweet11-87]

atm i agree the system isnt working as intended but in times past ive known it done by experienced people who have made recommendations and not all recommendations are made to restrict. for instance i know a fella who wanted a .22lr for rabbits had his land checked and was advised a better option given it was pastoral land with long lanes of fire a 17hmr would offer extended ranges, be  be a more fitting caliber as foxes would more than likely present themselves, it shatters and doesn't bounce as often around the livestock.

he still got the 22lr for the land but also was granted a slot for a 17hmr.   plus mods for both. everyone on that occasion was a winner.

 

 

 

[London Best]

10 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

atm i agree the system isnt working as intended but in times past ive known it done by experienced people who have made recommendations and not all recommendations are made to restrict. for instance i know a fella who wanted a .22lr for rabbits had his land checked and was advised a better option given it was pastoral land with long lanes of fire a 17hmr would offer extended ranges, be  be a more fitting caliber as foxes would more than likely present themselves, it shatters and doesn't bounce as often around the livestock.

he still got the 22lr for the land but also was granted a slot for a 17hmr.   plus mods for both. everyone on that occasion was a winner.

 

 

 

Back in ‘63 my father, a serving police officer, applied for a .22LR for use on a 100 acre farm. Application was denied because a footpath ran across one tiny corner of the land. Another man had recently been granted a certificate for the same ground by a neighbouring police force. Dad wrote to his own Chief Constable explaining this, and asking why the ground was deemed suitable for a civilian living in the next county but not a local policeman. No certificate was forthcoming but the other unfortunate man had his certificate revoked, which was not my father’s intention.

[Sweet11-87]

5 hours ago, London Best said:

Back in ‘63 my father, a serving police officer, applied for a .22LR for use on a 100 acre farm. Application was denied because a footpath ran across one tiny corner of the land. Another man had recently been granted a certificate for the same ground by a neighbouring police force. Dad wrote to his own Chief Constable explaining this, and asking why the ground was deemed suitable for a civilian living in the next county but not a local policeman. No certificate was forthcoming but the other unfortunate man had his certificate revoked, which was not my father’s intention.

I guess mileage may vary for each individual and you can only go of your own personal gut feeling and experiences.  

[Rim Fire]

On 30/05/2024 at 21:50, jall25 said:

 

Great 

Our land is passed for 243 but i need to have my 270 "registered" somewhere else - madness really 

This is what happened to me i got a 243 on land wanted a 308 for the pigs and was told only registered for 243 what a load of 💩 i got the 308 on another piece of land and went back to the land where i originally wanted it and used it as i have an open ticket 

[jall25]

9 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

This is what happened to me i got a 243 on land wanted a 308 for the pigs and was told only registered for 243 what a load of 💩 i got the 308 on another piece of land and went back to the land where i originally wanted it and used it as i have an open ticket 

Yes its so stupid isnt it 

[oowee]

6 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

This is what happened to me i got a 243 on land wanted a 308 for the pigs and was told only registered for 243 what a load of 💩 i got the 308 on another piece of land and went back to the land where i originally wanted it and used it as i have an open ticket 

I am not quite sure i follow that. If you have an open ticket why do you need to specify land? 

[Zoli 12 guage]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

I am not quite sure i follow that. If you have an open ticket why do you need to specify land? 

that's 2 of us🤔🤷‍♀️

all he needs is the permission for a species that warrants a .308.

Edited June 4 by Zoli 12 guage

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

I am not quite sure i follow that. If you have an open ticket why do you need to specify land? 

In Notts you need to have at least one piece of land that is deemed suitable by FLM for the calibre, you can use it anywhere else you deem suitable after that.
Im assuming that if you lose that land, you may get the open provision removed ?

4 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

all he needs is the permission for a species that warrants a .308.

Thats not my understanding.
You could have an acre land that has 100 deer on it , but the land will not be passed for a medium centrefire rifle.

You need to be open on some other land first to be able to make the decision yourself on the one acre site.

[Zoli 12 guage]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

In Notts you need to have at least one piece of land that is deemed suitable by FLM for the calibre, you can use it anywhere else you deem suitable after that.
Im assuming that if you lose that land, you may get the open provision removed ?

Thats not my understanding.
You could have an acre land that has 100 deer on it , but the land will not be passed for a medium centrefire rifle.

You need to be open on some other land first to be able to make the decision yourself on the one acre site.

he was "open" on some other land as he'd got a .243 as he says in his last statement. 

but it's a bit ridiculous when a .243 is basically a necked down .308🙄

[Rewulf]

Just now, Zoli 12 guage said:

he was "open" on some other land as he'd got a .243 as he says in his last statement. 

but it's a bit ridiculous when a .243 is basically a necked down .308🙄

Yes I get that , but you know what firearms are like , they just see the bigger number and think thats WAY more powerful 

I tried to get my 6.5 cleared for a nice hilly 600 acre farm I have , Its already cleared for 243, I tried to explain the 2 calibres are fairly similar in performance.
I was told by one FEO , who flatly refused to come out and look at the land, that 6.5 was over twice the power of a 2.43 
I got a 300 acre plot in another county that was cleared for 6.5, and requested they open the calibre immediately, which they did, so now I can use the Creed on the 600 acre farm and elsewhere.
Its bonkers really.

[wymberley]

5 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

he was "open" on some other land as he'd got a .243 as he says in his last statement. 

I don't understand some of the last few posts either. Assuming you have a calibre suited to the quarry in question and you have permission to shoot over the land, then given an 'open' certificate you can decide where you can shoot without any further FLM input.

[Rim Fire]

45 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Yes I get that , but you know what firearms are like , they just see the bigger number and think thats WAY more powerful 

I tried to get my 6.5 cleared for a nice hilly 600 acre farm I have , Its already cleared for 243, I tried to explain the 2 calibres are fairly similar in performance.
I was told by one FEO , who flatly refused to come out and look at the land, that 6.5 was over twice the power of a 2.43 
I got a 300 acre plot in another county that was cleared for 6.5, and requested they open the calibre immediately, which they did, so now I can use the Creed on the 600 acre farm and elsewhere.
Its bonkers really.

Nail on the head 

 

53 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

he was "open" on some other land as he'd got a .243 as he says in his last statement. 

but it's a bit ridiculous when a .243 is basically a necked down .308🙄

Because they said the land was only cleared upto a 243 so i couldn't have a 308 on that land so got the 308  cleared on another bit of land and as i have an open ticket i deemed the land that the 243 was cleared on suitable to shoot the 308 on utter nonsense 

41 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I don't understand some of the last few posts either. Assuming you have a calibre suited to the quarry in question and you have permission to shoot over the land, then given an 'open' certificate you can decide where you can shoot without any further FLM input.

As i said i had a 243 and wanted a 308  i wanted to register the 308 on the land i had the 243 on and they said it was only cleared for a 243 this is some of the stupidity we have to put up with 

Edited June 4 by Rim Fire

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

I don't understand some of the last few posts either. Assuming you have a calibre suited to the quarry in question and you have permission to shoot over the land, then given an 'open' certificate you can decide where you can shoot without any further FLM input.

He didnt have an open certificate on the 308 he wanted to acquire , he had open on 243.

Thinking it would be a simple job to grant 308 on the land as he was already using 243 on , they disagreed.

So went and found some other land cleared for 308, got it granted, and opened, now he can use 308 on the land he originally wanted to.

[wymberley]

18 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

He didnt have an open certificate on the 308 he wanted to acquire , he had open on 243.

Thinking it would be a simple job to grant 308 on the land as he was already using 243 on , they disagreed.

So went and found some other land cleared for 308, got it granted, and opened, now he can use 308 on the land he originally wanted to.

I wasn't saying anyone was wrong, but just that I didn't understand. With it now.

[Rewulf]

46 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I wasn't saying anyone was wrong, but just that I didn't understand. With it now.

[oowee]

Here once you have open you can apply for what you want and shoot it wherever you think is OK.

The land checks are only on place for closed tickets. Even that is a nonsense. I never had an inspector prepared to get out of the car and have a look.

When you renew you need to show that you have some land somewhere but its not relevant what it's cleared for. 

[Sweet11-87]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

He didnt have an open certificate on the 308 he wanted to acquire , he had open on 243.

Thinking it would be a simple job to grant 308 on the land as he was already using 243 on , they disagreed.

So went and found some other land cleared for 308, got it granted, and opened, now he can use 308 on the land he originally wanted to.

ah thanks for explaining,  it had me scratching my head.  It was the "good reason to possess" that was tripping him up.

so if you want a truly open ticket you need to be a member of a fullbore rifle range and have for target practice and lawful quarry on your ticket.

 

[Zoli 12 guage]

21 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

ah thanks for explaining,  it had me scratching my head.  It was the "good reason to possess" that was tripping him up.

so if you want a truly open ticket you need to be a member of a fullbore rifle range and have for target practice and lawful quarry on your ticket.

 

being a member of a rifle club doesn't cut any ice when you're after an open licence as that condition is for hunting and is a completely different criteria to a target condition and a different set of boxes to tick.

 

[Sweet11-87]

41 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

being a member of a rifle club doesn't cut any ice when you're after an open licence as that condition is for hunting and is a completely different criteria to a target condition and a different set of boxes to tick.

 

not about cutting ice, more that as a member on a range cleared for .338 plus and some in the UK even cleared for .50 that's your valid reason for possession of whatever you fancy if you then also have the lawful quarry and zeroing-practice on land over which the holder has lawful authority condition thats a truly open ticket.

if you're stupid enough to then go out and over gun something on a little farm that's a different matter.

 

 

 

[Zoli 12 guage]

41 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

not about cutting ice, more that as a member on a range cleared for .338 plus and some in the UK even cleared for .50 that's your valid reason for possession of whatever you fancy if you then also have the lawful quarry and zeroing-practice on land over which the holder has lawful authority condition thats a truly open ticket.

if you're stupid enough to then go out and over gun something on a little farm that's a different matter.

 

 

 

why are you conflating two different "good reasons" to possess ?,an open condition has nothing at all to do with target shooting or club membership.

[Sweet11-87]

2 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

why are you conflating two different "good reasons" to possess ?,an open condition has nothing at all to do with target shooting or club membership.

becasue imo even if youve got an open ticket if you request somthing and its denied based on a land check then youve not got an open ticket.

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

becasue imo even if youve got an open ticket if you request somthing and its denied based on a land check then youve not got an open ticket.

I think  your confusing what an open ticket actually is.

Your whole FAC isn't 'open' it's calibre specific.

If you have no land permissions, or the relevant conditions for shooting live quarry, you would never need or indeed be granted, an open calibre on your FAC.

If you only had one piece of land/permission , and it was cleared for say up to .223, then you could apply to use that calibre IF  there was suitable reason/quarry for it.

If you asked for it to 'open' for that calibre, you would be asked why that is necessary, when you only have that one permission. Sometimes they open it upon next renewal , others after 5 years.

The idea of an open calibre is often due to having multiple permission, it's a privilege granted when you are experienced enough to judge safe use of that particular calibre on land.

[Rim Fire]

On 04/06/2024 at 22:56, Rewulf said:

I think  your confusing what an open ticket actually is.

Your whole FAC isn't 'open' it's calibre specific.

If you have no land permissions, or the relevant conditions for shooting live quarry, you would never need or indeed be granted, an open calibre on your FAC.

If you only had one piece of land/permission , and it was cleared for say up to .223, then you could apply to use that calibre IF  there was suitable reason/quarry for it.

If you asked for it to 'open' for that calibre, you would be asked why that is necessary, when you only have that one permission. Sometimes they open it upon next renewal , others after 5 years.

The idea of an open calibre is often due to having multiple permission, it's a privilege granted when you are experienced enough to judge safe use of that particular calibre on land.

That is 100% correct  as i said the land was rated up to a 243 so the FAD deemed that a 308 was to much gun  for that piece of land as Rewulf said i got it passed on another piece of land got it opened and went back and shot it on the land that was rated up to a 243 because i deemed that the land was ok to shoot on  

[Sweet11-87]

On 04/06/2024 at 22:56, Rewulf said:

I think  your confusing what an open ticket actually is.

Your whole FAC isn't 'open' it's calibre specific.

If you have no land permissions, or the relevant conditions for shooting live quarry, you would never need or indeed be granted, an open calibre on your FAC.

If you only had one piece of land/permission , and it was cleared for say up to .223, then you could apply to use that calibre IF  there was suitable reason/quarry for it.

If you asked for it to 'open' for that calibre, you would be asked why that is necessary, when you only have that one permission. Sometimes they open it upon next renewal , others after 5 years.

The idea of an open calibre is often due to having multiple permission, it's a privilege granted when you are experienced enough to judge safe use of that particular calibre on land.

must be confused, got 5 calibers on my ticket and  slots for another 2 ive not picked anything up in  yet and all say "on land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"  previously said something along the lines of "deemed suitable by the chief of police" and i never specifically asked for any to be opened, i was under the  impression it was a probation period of sorts  ill look into it make sure all is above board