Fiocchi FBlack Sporting Problems

[Cawdor118]

Evening team, im usually a really big fan of Fiocchi FBlack sporting cartridges. Recently, my friends and I have had multiple misfires, what look like over pressure flat / burst primers, improper crimps resulting in shot at the bottom of the box and some cartridges spitting serious chunks of felt wad on firing. We suspect it is since they have been made in the UK as the boxes now have a GB flag. Anyone else had problems? 

We have had misfires in a ATA, Beretta 694 and 2 x Browning XS Pro's. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Shocking.

 

Time to complain to wherever you bought them and then to Fiocchi themselves.

[tpd1309]

GB flag does mean loaded in the UK by Express 

[Cawdor118]

4 minutes ago, tpd1309 said:

GB flag does mean loaded in the UK by Express 

Yes, this was my concern! I was never a great fan of Lyalvale for whatever reason 🤷‍♂️

5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Shocking.

 

Time to complain to wherever you bought them and then to Fiocchi themselves.

I agree. What's saddening is Fiocchi UK don't seem to care. They are aware, as the company we bought them from has fed it all back. The Italian Fiocchi shells are class, always have been. Shame the UK made versions have Land Rover type quality control 😂. 

We have probably lost 25+ cartridges so far.

Edited July 28, 2024 by Cawdor118

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I have used Fiocchi shells in the past and have been impressed.

 

I shall not bother with these poor relations going under a well known name.

[BobbyH]

I have noticed Fblu’s have had alot of imperfections recently!!!

[Fellside]

Not surprised if made by Express. Shame, I’ve used thousands of Fiocchi cart’s - not sure I will chance them now. 

[Smudger687]

2 minutes ago, BobbyH said:

I have noticed Fblu’s have had alot of imperfections recently!!!

Gah, there goes my favourite

[BobbyH]

Just now, Smudger687 said:

Gah, there goes my favourite

I mean, they still shot very well, but had imperfections in the cases, looks like a dent in the side!

And it was on TT1’s too!

[Cawdor118]

5 minutes ago, BobbyH said:

I have noticed Fblu’s have had alot of imperfections recently!!!

Suspect they are probably UK made now too? Do they have a new Gucci box with the UK flag? 

 

5 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Not surprised if made by Express. Shame, I’ve used thousands of Fiocchi cart’s - not sure I will chance them now. 

The Italian premium lines appear to be fine. I have some Rossa's and they are brilliant. 

 

4 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

Gah, there goes my favourite

Hopefully they will improve the QC, they were too good a cartridge to go off them on a few thousand with some duds? 

 

4 minutes ago, BobbyH said:

I mean, they still shot very well, but had imperfections in the cases, looks like a dent in the side!

And it was on TT1’s too!

Funnily enough, my mate purchase a few thousand TT1s and they never had any problems and they are cheaper 👍🏻

[mellors]

The 20 gauge 24 gram steel 5 s have changed recently as well lighter coloured case and felt type base wad instead of the original plastic base wads.

No issues with them so far but as said maybe lyvale are doing them now. 

I've reloaded some and the new ones are more like a cheddite case than the robust fiocchi case. 

 

[Gordon R]

Saw one of these two weeks ago. The metal head was distorted and wouldn't eject. The ejector had overridden the head and the shell was stuck in the barrel.

I told the lad to knock the shell back down the barrel with a cleaning rod. He did that and later showed me the shell. It was clearly out of shape on manufacture.

[rbrowning2]

15 hours ago, tpd1309 said:

GB flag does mean loaded in the UK by Express 

The GB flag used to indicate the cartridges were part of the Fiocchi english traditional range and loaded for the U.K. market in Italy with true U.K. shot size rather than Italian shot sizes.  

[Fellside]

14 hours ago, Cawdor118 said:

The Italian premium lines appear to be fine. I have some Rossa's and they are brilliant. 

Fair enough re Rossa’s. I think it will take time for the good stock from Fiocchi Italy to sell through. I am getting through a thousand Italian TT Two fibres - they are nothing short of brilliant. Just wonder what the quality control will be like when Express start turning them out…..? I already have some alternatives in mind. 

[Cawdor118]

5 hours ago, mellors said:

The 20 gauge 24 gram steel 5 s have changed recently as well lighter coloured case and felt type base wad instead of the original plastic base wads.

No issues with them so far but as said maybe lyvale are doing them now. 

I've reloaded some and the new ones are more like a cheddite case than the robust fiocchi case. 

 

I wonder if these are UK manufactured? I must admit, it's merely speculation that they are UK made at this time... Though, there is definitely something up with all these unusual QC issues not generally seen in Italian Fiocchi. 

 

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Saw one of these two weeks ago. The metal head was distorted and wouldn't eject. The ejector had overridden the head and the shell was stuck in the barrel.

I told the lad to knock the shell back down the barrel with a cleaning rod. He did that and later showed me the shell. It was clearly out of shape on manufacture.

Not good. I'm not sure how Fiocchi can be happy with all these complaints. I have heard nothing as yet. 

 

1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

The GB flag used to indicate the cartridges were part of the Fiocchi english traditional range and loaded for the U.K. market in Italy with true U.K. shot size rather than Italian shot sizes.  

This is weird as they are generally advertised as 8.5s for sale. But as you say, they are stamped 8 on the case as per UK shot sizes. I still suspect these new ones are not made in Italy? 

 

1 hour ago, Fellside said:

Fair enough re Rossa’s. I think it will take time for the good stock from Fiocchi Italy to sell through. I am getting through a thousand Italian TT Two fibres - they are nothing short of brilliant. Just wonder what the quality control will be like when Express start turning them out…..? I already have some alternatives in mind. 

I'm not sure the premium end will ever be made here? Probably not enough demand to set up tooling for a few k? If you look up this thread, someone mentioned QC issues with the TTs 

[Fellside]

4 hours ago, Cawdor118 said:

I wonder if these are UK manufactured? I must admit, it's merely speculation that they are UK made at this time... Though, there is definitely something up with all these unusual QC issues not generally seen in Italian Fiocchi. 

 

Not good. I'm not sure how Fiocchi can be happy with all these complaints. I have heard nothing as yet. 

 

This is weird as they are generally advertised as 8.5s for sale. But as you say, they are stamped 8 on the case as per UK shot sizes. I still suspect these new ones are not made in Italy? 

 

I'm not sure the premium end will ever be made here? Probably not enough demand to set up tooling for a few k? If you look up this thread, someone mentioned QC issues with the TTs 

Yes - did see that re TTs. Have to say my TT Two, which I think predate the Express manufacturing, have been great. 

[tpd1309]

Go minute 30 👍

 

 

[rbrowning2]

interesting video about the fblack and fblu would be good to see the old Italian versions cut open to show the wads and powder type and weight, then likewise with the new loaded in u.k. versions.

looking at the fiocchi website the fblack in 28gm and fblu in 28gm are both 5% antimony shot. fblack and fblu are both listed at 395ms, pressure  fblack 600bar fblu 580bar.   However momentum, recoil is nothing to do with pressure, only velocity and shot weight so can we really notice 20bar difference especially given pressure is not that consistent cartridge to cartridge so long as it is still compliant with CIP.

It’s all in your head, shoot whatever works for you, for me the fiocchi litespeeds are good.

 

Edited July 30, 2024 by rbrowning2

[Cawdor118]

1 hour ago, tpd1309 said:

Go minute 30 👍

 

 

Aha! Alas, now we know its a UK loading issue! 

26 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

interesting video about the fblack and fblu would be good to see the old Italian versions cut open to show the wads and powder type and weight, then likewise with the new loaded in u.k. versions.

looking at the fiocchi website the fblack in 28gm and fblu in 28gm are both 5% antimony shot. fblack and fblu are both listed at 395ms, pressure  fblack 600bar fblu 580bar.   However momentum, recoil is nothing to do with pressure, only velocity and shot weight so can we really notice 20bar difference especially given pressure is not that consistent cartridge to cartridge so long as it is still compliant with CIP.

It’s all in your head, shoot whatever works for you, for me the fiocchi litespeeds are good.

 

Agreed, regarding force, mass and acceleration. Though, what's not in the head, but in the math is that 2grams less per cartridge, equates to less lead in the air and ultimately less chance of a hit. 

[rbrowning2]

7 minutes ago, Cawdor118 said:

Aha! Alas, now we know its a UK loading issue! 

Agreed, regarding force, mass and acceleration. Though, what's not in the head, but in the math is that 2grams less per cartridge, equates to less lead in the air and ultimately less chance of a hit. 

but 2grams of 8 shot against 2gm of 7.5 shot is but a few pellets so yet to think I missed because of a few less pellets but a good saving to my wallet. 

 

[wymberley]

40 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

interesting video about the fblack and fblu would be good to see the old Italian versions cut open to show the wads and powder type and weight, then likewise with the new loaded in u.k. versions.

looking at the fiocchi website the fblack in 28gm and fblu in 28gm are both 5% antimony shot. fblack and fblu are both listed at 395ms, pressure  fblack 600bar fblu 580bar.   However momentum, recoil is nothing to do with pressure, only velocity and shot weight so can we really notice 20bar difference especially given pressure is not that consistent cartridge to cartridge so long as it is still compliant with CIP.

It’s all in your head, shoot whatever works for you, for me the fiocchi litespeeds are good.

 

Don't think it matters here, but,yep, momentum is just shot with velocity but recoil is all ejecta - shot, wads and powder(gas)

[Cawdor118]

12 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

but 2grams of 8 shot against 2gm of 7.5 shot is but a few pellets so yet to think I missed because of a few less pellets but a good saving to my wallet. 

 

Its roughly 7% less shot in a 26gm v 28gm cartridge. Considering Lightspeed are £260/1000 and TT1 £270/1000 have you not considered the TT1 a better value cartridge for money?

Genuine question, not a dig 👍

[rbrowning2]

19 hours ago, Cawdor118 said:

Its roughly 7% less shot in a 26gm v 28gm cartridge. Considering Lightspeed are £260/1000 and TT1 £270/1000 have you not considered the TT1 a better value cartridge for money?

Genuine question, not a dig 👍

No dig assumed a valid question.

by the information I have

28gm of u.k. 8 shot is 435 pellets = TT1

26gm of u.k. 8 shot is 404 pellets = litespeeds

28gm of u.k. 7.5 shot is 392 pellets TT1 

So I quite happy with the litespeeds.

[Northerner]

So from my perspective as a Fiocchi user (for clays normally TT1 28gm no. 8 ) I have tried the FBlacks when my local shop was out of TT1's and didn't notice any different. I have used the litespeeds and i just didn't get on with them. The recoil impulse was just a lot sharper compared to the TT1's (tried first in an sbs then in two of my o/u's including a trap gun) to the point i ended up just running them through my s/a to use them up. It is the first cartridge that i have felt that on even though i use 50gm BB's through a pump and s/a. At the end of the day it is very much a personal perspective if you don't feel 100% confident in the gun or cartridge you are using it will always be in your mind and you will miss imo. I also use the TT2 28gm no7.5 (2.4mm so uk 7) and 32gm no6 pigeon special for game and pigeons etc and find them a reliable cartridge. I used to use Lyalvale Express till about 2018 but ended up having quite a few misshaped/crimped plus misfires and a couple of squib loads. Hopefully the fiocchi's don't got the same way. 

Edited July 31, 2024 by Northerner

[Cawdor118]

53 minutes ago, Northerner said:

So from my perspective as a Fiocchi user (for clays normally TT1 28gm no. 8 ) I have tried the FBlacks when my local shop was out of TT1's and didn't notice any different. I have used the litespeeds and i just didn't get on with them. The recoil impulse was just a lot sharper compared to the TT1's (tried first in an sbs then in two of my o/u's including a trap gun) to the point i ended up just running them through my s/a to use them up. It is the first cartridge that i have felt that on even though i use 50gm BB's through a pump and s/a. At the end of the day it is very much a personal perspective if you don't feel 100% confident in the gun or cartridge you are using it will always be in your mind and you will miss imo. I also use the TT2 28gm no7.5 (2.4mm so uk 7) and 32gm no6 pigeon special for game and pigeons etc and find them a reliable cartridge. I used to use Lyalvale Express till about 2018 but ended up having quite a few misshaped/crimped plus misfires and a couple of squib loads. Hopefully the fiocchi's don't got the same way. 

Going by what we are seeing, it looks like they are going that exact way!