oldypigeonpopper Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 5 minutes ago, Penelope said: There are lots of empty or half empty buildings. The trains on the commute into London are empty on Mondays and Fridays. Hello, That is what i thought , They must cost a fortune to heat and light yet no one working ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 (edited) Hello, On today news, Energy Bills going up in October 8% ?? , Moving to Spain looks more inviting 🤔 Would i miss old Blighty 😀 Edited August 19 by oldypigeonpopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 2 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, On today news, Energy Bills going up in October 8% ?? , Moving to Spain looks more inviting 🤔 Would i miss old Blighty 😀 To be fair - they energy suppliers have all been warning it would rise by around 10% for the coming winter due to international demand in a tight market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: To be fair - they energy suppliers have all been warning it would rise by around 10% for the coming winter due to international demand in a tight market. What a crying shame we don't have our own huge resources instead of relying on foreign imports that cost a fortune! Oh hang on! We must have the most useless / expensive energy policy in the world due to the total imbeciles in Govt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 6 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, That is what i thought , They must cost a fortune to heat and light yet no one working ?? Next stop for the boaties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 7 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said: What a crying shame we don't have our own huge resources instead of relying on foreign imports that cost a fortune! Oh hang on! We must have the most useless / expensive energy policy in the world due to the total imbeciles in Govt. We are sitting on top of a thousand years worth of coal and it's free. All we have to do is dig it out No money leaves the country, jobs for those doing the digging and the transportation. What's not to like about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 Net zero is a perplexing con seemingly only sold to Europe. No one would have voted in referendum to make themselves poorer or pay more for their energy whilst the developing world throw up coal fired power stations hand over fist. And our nuclear industry has died following the Green Party in Germany making it so unpopular. I can make little sense of the world these days - of the many problems we face, most are self induced and the rest are easily fixed if we ignore know nothing politicians who are so utterly influenced and captivated by the idealistic left and noisy minorities (that applies to energy as well as immigration). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 30 minutes ago, Vince Green said: We are sitting on top of a thousand years worth of coal and it's free. All we have to do is dig it out No money leaves the country, jobs for those doing the digging and the transportation. What's not to like about it? We don't need the pollution. We have free wind all around relatively pollution free, we have shed loads (😁) of solar and wave energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 Just now, oowee said: We don't need the pollution. We have free wind all around relatively pollution free, we have shed loads (😁) of solar and wave energy. Coal can be burnt cleanly if its done properly and not using 1950s powerstations. The process gets a lot more heat out of the coal as well and the exhaust heat can be used to heat houses, greenhouses or whatever. We are stupidly kneeling at the altar of Net Zero when nobody else in the world is and it's costing us a lot of money unnecessarily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 5 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Coal can be burnt cleanly if its done properly and not using 1950s powerstations. The process gets a lot more heat out of the coal as well and the exhaust heat can be used to heat houses, greenhouses or whatever. We are stupidly kneeling at the altar of Net Zero when nobody else in the world is and it's costing us a lot of money unnecessarily Green energy is already cheaper, it's a lot cleaner, and its abundant we just have to harness it. As individuals move towards self generation and storage and decarbonize the grid, we will create a distributed energy model. This will significantly reduce the energy bill, and significantly increasing the availability of energy for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 Tidal and nuclear are the only viable long term options - lots of studies on what happens when the sun stops shining (which is more often than not in this country) and when the wind stops blowing - they fire up the power stations of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 Just now, oowee said: Green energy is already cheaper, it's a lot cleaner, and its abundant we just have to harness it. As individuals move towards self generation and storage and decarbonize the grid, we will create a distributed energy model. This will significantly reduce the energy bill, and significantly increasing the availability of energy for all. Sorry but I don't actually believe that green energy will ever provide more than a small percentage of our needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 1 minute ago, Vince Green said: Sorry but I don't actually believe that green energy will ever provide more than a small percentage of our needs. It's already providing more than 40% of UK energy. If all new houses have solar or a battery it will half energy bills. If you have the cash, now you can have free energy now and get a return of 12% on your investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 1 hour ago, Mungler said: Tidal and nuclear are the only viable long term options - lots of studies on what happens when the sun stops shining (which is more often than not in this country) and when the wind stops blowing - they fire up the power stations of course. My view too, except that tidal involves rather more infrastructure than local mini nuclear sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 2 hours ago, oowee said: Green energy is already cheaper, it's a lot cleaner, and its abundant we just have to harness it. As individuals move towards self generation and storage and decarbonize the grid, we will create a distributed energy model. This will significantly reduce the energy bill, and significantly increasing the availability of energy for all. It's a bargain, my bills have tripled since 2020 and in @ 15 years time it all needs replacing who is paying for that, oh yes us. How green is the manufacture of the replacements? For someone who appears to have held a well paid job in the Uncivil Service you appear to be totally detached from reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 4 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said: It's a bargain, my bills have tripled since 2020 and in @ 15 years time it all needs replacing who is paying for that, oh yes us. How green is the manufacture of the replacements? For someone who appears to have held a well paid job in the Uncivil Service you appear to be totally detached from reality. Unfortunately you are confused. The price you pay is related to the value of the product (wholesale market price, what energy can be sold to the market for) not the cost of production. The wholesale price of green is pushed by the price of fossil (particularly with the Russian supply side issue). The situation exacerbated by our dependence on gas. If we only had fossil fuels your bills would be far higher. The more green the lower the cost will become green energy wind and solar is the cheapest energy out there. Wind will get even cheaper now the Tories are out, as they blocked cheaper energy production. Many consumers not only do not pay for energy but get paid to balance the grid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoli 12 guage Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 i've had a 4Kw PV system on my roof since 2013 and this year the amount generated is (on average) 30% down on previous years. could this be due to this summer and early year being a washout. only found out about a month since that they're putting a solar farm on some farmland about a mile from my house. this country,in general,isn't really a prime example of good sunny weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 9 hours ago, amateur said: My view too, except that tidal involves rather more infrastructure than local mini nuclear sites. Not forgetting the massive habitat descruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 12 hours ago, Vince Green said: We are sitting on top of a thousand years worth of coal and it's free. All we have to do is dig it out No money leaves the country, jobs for those doing the digging and the transportation. What's not to like about it? Mouth wash needed Vince, rinse away your common sense it's unsettling for some? Those in charge don't give a flying fig. They gave it all away knowing mostly no impact on themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 (edited) 5 hours ago, oowee said: Unfortunately you are confused. The price you pay is related to the value of the product (wholesale market price, what energy can be sold to the market for) not the cost of production. The wholesale price of green is pushed by the price of fossil (particularly with the Russian supply side issue). The situation exacerbated by our dependence on gas. If we only had fossil fuels your bills would be far higher. The more green the lower the cost will become green energy wind and solar is the cheapest energy out there. Wind will get even cheaper now the Tories are out, as they blocked cheaper energy production. Many consumers not only do not pay for energy but get paid to balance the grid. No confusion on my part thanks. Green energy subsidies are driving everybody's bills sky high. Who pays for all the Solar Panel and Turbines to be replaced every 20 years and how much will it add to our bills. What emissions occur from their manufacture and how are they recycled? The price of Gas has come back down since 2020 and is 1/4 of the price of electric. We have the most expensive electricity in Europe by a country mile due to the insanity of Net Zero and very soon will have Net Zero Manufacturing Industry left in the UK because of it. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1174560/average-monthly-gas-prices-uk/ Edited August 20 by Weihrauch17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 1 hour ago, Weihrauch17 said: No confusion on my part thanks. Green energy subsidies are driving everybody's bills sky high. Who pays for all the Solar Panel and Turbines to be replaced every 20 years and how much will it add to our bills. What emissions occur from their manufacture and how are they recycled? The price of Gas has come back down since 2020 and is 1/4 of the price of electric. We have the most expensive electricity in Europe by a country mile due to the insanity of Net Zero and very soon will have Net Zero Manufacturing Industry left in the UK because of it. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1174560/average-monthly-gas-prices-uk/ Renewable energy is cheaper now than gas was before the rise in prices. Whole life energy costs are also far cheaper than any other form of generation. This may help you understand the situation better. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/why-is-cheap-renewable-electricity-so-expensive/#:~:text=Electricity is increasingly generated from,of electricity from various sources. I use only green tarrifs and rather than have an energy bill for next year, expect to be paid around £800 by Octopus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 Some interesting numbers here. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6556027d046ed400148b99fe/electricity-generation-costs-2023.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 8 hours ago, Zoli 12 guage said: i've had a 4Kw PV system on my roof since 2013 and this year the amount generated is (on average) 30% down on previous years. Short circuit on a panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 (edited) 8 hours ago, Zoli 12 guage said: i've had a 4Kw PV system on my roof since 2013 and this year the amount generated is (on average) 30% down on previous years. could this be due to this summer and early year being a washout. only found out about a month since that they're putting a solar farm on some farmland about a mile from my house. this country,in general,isn't really a prime example of good sunny weather. They (at least some panels) are VERY dependent on the light level. I repaired a small panel (for charging electric fence batteries) and on anything other than a really 'full' sun, they output was way way down. I had access to meters and suitable resistive loads to do some reasonably accurate measurements. Whilst it is technically correct that they 'work' in slightly overcast conditions, this panel did near what it was claimed to do in really full direct sun at around midday, but even a very slight haze dropped it by 50% and a bright (but overcast) day had it running at only around 15% of the claimed output. In a 7 day period, it actually only really charged the battery on days with full sun around midday - and then only for a few hours. I'm guessing that this year we have had less really clear sunny days by quite a bit. Certainly that has been my perception. I note (looking through the report in Raja Clavata's post above and IF I understand it correctly), that solar has a load factor (i.e. the proportion of the time it will give it's rated output) of around 11% Edited August 20 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 6 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said: No confusion on my part thanks. Green energy subsidies are driving everybody's bills sky high. Who pays for all the Solar Panel and Turbines to be replaced every 20 years and how much will it add to our bills. What emissions occur from their manufacture and how are they recycled? The price of Gas has come back down since 2020 and is 1/4 of the price of electric. We have the most expensive electricity in Europe by a country mile due to the insanity of Net Zero and very soon will have Net Zero Manufacturing Industry left in the UK because of it. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1174560/average-monthly-gas-prices-uk/ I don't understand the situation either, other than knowing when total control of energy was given away to their mates we were totally stuffed? Just like control of everything else, gone? We are bovine transported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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