Notting hill carnival

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, old man said:

That covers all but the ones determined to murder others for another reason?

HATE, MONEY, TURF, DRUGS, the list will be endless.

[old man]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I just posted what ChatGPT had to "say", I'm not endorsing all of it but it it's even obvious to a dumb LLM that it's a complex issue.

You seem to be advocating two tier policing.

Are you referring to religious/ideological motivations?

Referring to all possible motivations, seen and unseen.

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

I've looked at that twice now and it just reads like a long list of excuses with no solutions. 

If young black lads/men are stabbing each other, I couldn't care less about the cultural side of things, I carried a Swiss army type knife for years, right through school, I didn't stab anyone. 

It's nothing to do with mental health or a lack of opportunities,  they are carrying knives because others are carrying,  and anyone carrying is doing so because they know there's very chance the police will stop them, because if they do get stopped they'll shout Racism.

There are football and Rugby clubs everywhere all across the country, plus many other sports, Judo for instanceis cheap as chips to get involved with, anyone can be involved with sport.

If there are stabbings happening regularly in an area then the police need to be able and stop and search people in that area, if they happen to be mostly black lads then so be it, if it was happening where I live and the majority of kids getting searched were white then so be it, I'd rather that than the behavior just be ignored. 

 

While I agree, making excuses for serious criminals is not acceptable, I haven't seen anyone on here advocate that. But on the other hand, over simplification of highly complex issues will only add fuel to the fire and solve nothing. 

[Mungler]

On 29/08/2024 at 07:04, 12gauge82 said:

Is it? 

So explain why foreign nationals commit more crime than native Germans? 

You have just fallen into the trap. 

How does culture provide any excuse for breaking national law? National law trumps ‘culture’ whatever that is.

Follow the law or don’t?

 

 

16 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I'm with you on this.

BTW, here's what OpenAi has to "say" on the topic:

Addressing the issue of why young Black males are often associated with knife crime involves understanding a complex interplay of social, economic, cultural, and environmental factors. It's important to approach this topic with sensitivity, as it involves not just statistics, but the lived experiences of individuals and communities. The factors contributing to involvement in knife crime are not specific to race, but they can disproportionately affect certain groups due to broader systemic issues. Here are some key factors:

1. Socioeconomic Factors

• Poverty and Inequality: Many young people involved in knife crime come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. Poverty can lead to limited access to education, employment opportunities, and recreational activities, which can increase the likelihood of engaging in criminal behavior.
• Unemployment: High levels of unemployment among young people, particularly in certain urban areas, can lead to feelings of frustration, hopelessness, and a lack of purpose, which can contribute to involvement in criminal activities as a way to gain status or income.

2. Social Environment

• Exposure to Violence: Growing up in environments where violence is normalized, or where there is a lack of positive role models, can influence young people to carry weapons for protection or as a way of asserting power.
• Peer Pressure and Gang Culture: Knife crime is often associated with gang activity. Young people may carry knives to fit in with peers, protect themselves, or gain respect within a group. Gangs can offer a sense of belonging and identity, particularly in the absence of other supportive structures.
• Fear and Protection: In areas with high crime rates, young people may carry knives out of fear for their safety, believing that it is necessary to protect themselves from threats.

3. Institutional Factors

• Educational Disparities: Disengagement from the education system can lead to young people becoming involved in criminal activities. Schools in disadvantaged areas often face challenges such as underfunding, overcrowded classrooms, and a lack of support services, which can contribute to higher dropout rates.
• Discrimination and Marginalization: Systemic racism and discrimination can lead to the marginalization of young Black males, affecting their opportunities and interactions with institutions such as schools, law enforcement, and the job market. This can create a sense of alienation and frustration, contributing to antisocial behavior.

4. Cultural and Media Influences

• Representation in Media: Media often disproportionately highlights crimes involving young Black males, which can perpetuate stereotypes and stigmatize the entire community. This can also influence how young people see themselves and their place in society.
• Cultural Norms: In some subcultures, carrying a knife might be seen as a symbol of strength, survival, or masculinity. This can be reinforced by music, social media, and other forms of cultural expression that glorify violence or depict it as a legitimate response to challenges.

5. Lack of Support Services

• Mental Health and Counseling: Limited access to mental health services and counseling can leave young people without the necessary support to cope with trauma, stress, or other issues, increasing the likelihood of resorting to violence.
• Youth Programs: A lack of positive outlets for energy and creativity, such as sports, arts, or community programs, can lead to boredom and negative behaviors. Youth programs that offer mentorship, skills training, and constructive activities can help divert young people away from crime.

6. Policing and Criminal Justice

• Stop and Search Policies: Some policing strategies, such as stop and search, disproportionately target young Black males, which can lead to mistrust of law enforcement and further entrenchment in criminal behavior. If young people feel unfairly targeted, they may be more likely to resist or rebel against authorities.
• Criminal Justice System: Disparities in how the criminal justice system treats young Black males compared to other groups can exacerbate feelings of injustice and contribute to a cycle of crime and incarceration.

Conclusion

While these factors can contribute to why some young Black males are involved in knife crime, it's crucial to recognize that the issue is not inherent to race but rather a result of broader societal challenges that disproportionately impact certain communities. Solutions should focus on addressing the root causes, such as improving educational opportunities, providing economic support, fostering positive social environments, and addressing systemic inequalities, rather than stigmatizing or stereotyping entire groups.

Is this the same AI that programmed by lefties that gave us black Nazis?

Please ask AI why the Ugandan Indians / Chinese managed not to habitually break the law and become so successful.

 

Edited August 30 by Mungler

[Mungler]

11 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

While I agree, making excuses for serious criminals is not acceptable, I haven't seen anyone on here advocate that. But on the other hand, over simplification of highly complex issues will only add fuel to the fire and solve nothing. 

But it is that simplification that provides the solution. Follow national law. No excuses - just don’t break the law. It works in other countries - Singapore top of that list. Indeed there is an expectation in that country that if you break a law you will be detected and dealt with. Such low expectation of detection and punishment is where we are now.

Edit

I always love the reply to zero tolerance shop lifting. Everyone rolls out the starving family stealing bread. 

There is a self service co-op opposite where I work. Out of our office windows and when in the store we see shop lifting every day (no joke). Security sprinting out the door every day. I just have witnessed 50 incidences of shop lifting and we all know the prolific thieves by sight. I can absolutely assure you there is not a single starving family shoplifting out of that store. My eyes tell me everything I need to know and I don’t deny the truth of what my eyes see and tell me (little bit of 1984 in there for the literary fans).

.
 

Edited August 30 by Mungler

[12gauge82]

35 minutes ago, Mungler said:

You have just fallen into the trap. 

How does culture provide any excuse for breaking national law? National law trumps ‘culture’ whatever that is.

Follow the law or don’t?

 

 

 

Um, I don't think I have, I never suggested it did, I did however ask you a question which you haven't answered yet. 

31 minutes ago, Mungler said:

But it is that simplification that provides the solution. Follow national law. No excuses - just don’t break the law. It works in other countries - Singapore top of that list. Indeed there is an expectation in that country that if you break a law you will be detected and dealt with. Such low expectation of detection and punishment is where we are now.

Edit

I always love the reply to zero tolerance shop lifting. Everyone rolls out the starving family stealing bread. 

There is a self service co-op opposite where I work. Out of our office windows and when in the store we see shop lifting every day (no joke). Security sprinting out the door every day. I just have witnessed 50 incidences of shop lifting and we all know the prolific thieves by sight. I can absolutely assure you there is not a single starving family shoplifting out of that store. My eyes tell me everything I need to know and I don’t deny the truth of what my eyes see and tell me (little bit of 1984 in there for the literary fans).

.
 

Oh look, my reply you quoted says making excuses for serious criminals is not acceptable, so I'm not sure what your first 'trap' was all about 🤔. 

Your preaching to the choir, I agree, our police service is a laughing stock with the wrong priorities and serious criminals should be stepped on. 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Is this the same AI that programmed by lefties that gave us black Nazis?

Please ask AI why the Ugandan Indians / Chinese managed not to habitually break the law and become so successful.

 

I agree the LLM behind the AI is centre left, and appreciate that makes it look far left from your radical right perspective.

All LLMs are biased and have a tendency to hallucinate, the point of my posting it was to show that even a dumb LLM “knows” it’s a complex issue.

Not familiar with the black Nazi case but not surprised. 

I don’t need to ask the AI why the displaced Ugandan Indians are successful, not all of them left East Africa and those that stayed typically run a significant portion of commerce in Nairobi for example. They are typically of Gujurati or Sikh heritage and by virtual of having moved to EA demonstrate an entrepreneurial spirit. Additionally, amongst other things, they are typically well educated, possess a strong work ethic and leveraged strong community support from friends and relatives already here. Despite their displacement, they were typically affluent in their lives in EA and I’m sure highly motivated to be successful here too.

I don’t see the direct link to not habitually breaking the law, are you suggesting there is no individual or organised crime associated with Indians of Ugandan origin or Chinese migrants?

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, It is very simple, No Crime No Time , but that seems to be no deterrent in the UK now

[12gauge82]

19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I agree the LLM behind the AI is centre left, and appreciate that makes it look far left from your radical right perspective.

All LLMs are biased and have a tendency to hallucinate, the point of my posting it was to show that even a dumb LLM “knows” it’s a complex issue.

Not familiar with the black Nazi case but not surprised. 

I don’t need to ask the AI why the displaced Ugandan Indians are successful, not all of them left East Africa and those that stayed typically run a significant portion of commerce in Nairobi for example. They are typically of Gujurati or Sikh heritage and by virtual of having moved to EA demonstrate an entrepreneurial spirit. Additionally, amongst other things, they are typically well educated, possess a strong work ethic and leveraged strong community support from friends and relatives already here. Despite their displacement, they were typically affluent in their lives in EA and I’m sure highly motivated to be successful here too.

I don’t see the direct link to not habitually breaking the law, are you suggesting there is no individual or organised crime associated with Indians of Ugandan origin or Chinese migrants?

Good reply. 

Mungler, your posts are usually very well put together, but your proving rajas point with this debate. I genuinely don't know what your getting at? 

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Mungler, your posts are usually very well put together, but your proving rajas point with this debate. I genuinely don't know what your getting at? 

My take on the AI generated 'explanation' 

Its not their fault they carry and use knives.
The environment they live in/created, is to blame, and the culture they CHOOSE to embrace and foster, means they HAVE to carry weapons AND be willing to use them.
Peer pressure ? The gang they CHOOSE to be part of , MAKES them carry weapons and FORCES them to use them for the slightest provocation.
The 'Law of the jungle' is paramount, only the strongest will survive in the concrete ghetto (they have created)

Listen to most rap, grime or drill 'music' the clarion call of gang culture, it glorifies the use of weapons, 'alpha' hierarchy, and encourages the use of weapons to maim and indeed kill anyone that would challenge your authority, misogyny is strongly encouraged.
The police are your enemy.
Education is optional, and being part of the 'system' is probably best avoided.
Gainful employment is for losers, p*****s, a criminal enterprise that elevates you to wealth is far more preferable. 'Get rich or die tryin' is the mantra.

In summary, its clear that not every single black male born into 'rough' areas goes down this route, many make successful careers, father children and actually support them, crime is obviously NOT the only option.
Its also not just about race, all of the options are available to any creed or colour, its ALWAYS about culture, parenting, and above all, education.

Breaking the cycle of crime should start from the earliest age possible, blaming where you are born is the worst cop out imaginable, taking responsibility for your OWN actions rather than blaming societal factors should be the most important thing a child learns.

[Penelope]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

My take on the AI generated 'explanation' 

Its not their fault they carry and use knives.
The environment they live in/created, is to blame, and the culture they CHOOSE to embrace and foster, means they HAVE to carry weapons AND be willing to use them.
Peer pressure ? The gang they CHOOSE to be part of , MAKES them carry weapons and FORCES them to use them for the slightest provocation.
The 'Law of the jungle' is paramount, only the strongest will survive in the concrete ghetto (they have created)

Listen to most rap, grime or drill 'music' the clarion call of gang culture, it glorifies the use of weapons, 'alpha' hierarchy, and encourages the use of weapons to maim and indeed kill anyone that would challenge your authority, misogyny is strongly encouraged.
The police are your enemy.
Education is optional, and being part of the 'system' is probably best avoided.
Gainful employment is for losers, p*****s, a criminal enterprise that elevates you to wealth is far more preferable. 'Get rich or die tryin' is the mantra.

In summary, its clear that not every single black male born into 'rough' areas goes down this route, many make successful careers, father children and actually support them, crime is obviously NOT the only option.
Its also not just about race, all of the options are available to any creed or colour, its ALWAYS about culture, parenting, and above all, education.

Breaking the cycle of crime should start from the earliest age possible, blaming where you are born is the worst cop out imaginable, taking responsibility for your OWN actions rather than blaming societal factors should be the most important thing a child learns.

Close the thread, as the above nails it.

[Mungler]

4 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Good reply. 

Mungler, your posts are usually very well put together, but your proving rajas point with this debate. I genuinely don't know what your getting at? 

Raja has actually made my point for me.

Work ethic, love of education and familial ties - would that be their ‘culture’?

Statistics will show who or what carries out a disproportionate amount of crime or ends up disproportionately incarcerated. Those stats can then also be applied in a like for like comparison for other groups, ages, ethnicities etc.

Telling that the stats are available but won’t be released by the government. I wonder why? Probably for the best for the sake of multiculturalism.

Back to stop and search. Applying the statistics it’s absolutely the right thing to do and it’s notable the trajectory of knife crime since it was abandoned. Indeed, if young black men are more likely to stab, be stabbed and or end up in prison then there’s no point in stopping my mum to see if she has a bladed weapon on her.

And the AI answer is another reason why we should not let computers do all our thinking for us. Indeed voluntarily disengaging our own eyes and ears for a programmed answer - yeah what could possibly go wrong?

I can’t get over what a load of old nonsense / wafer thin excuses that that computer generated ’answer’ was. 

 

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

My take on the AI generated 'explanation' 

Its not their fault they carry and use knives.
The environment they live in/created, is to blame, and the culture they CHOOSE to embrace and foster, means they HAVE to carry weapons AND be willing to use them.
Peer pressure ? The gang they CHOOSE to be part of , MAKES them carry weapons and FORCES them to use them for the slightest provocation.
The 'Law of the jungle' is paramount, only the strongest will survive in the concrete ghetto (they have created)

Listen to most rap, grime or drill 'music' the clarion call of gang culture, it glorifies the use of weapons, 'alpha' hierarchy, and encourages the use of weapons to maim and indeed kill anyone that would challenge your authority, misogyny is strongly encouraged.
The police are your enemy.
Education is optional, and being part of the 'system' is probably best avoided.
Gainful employment is for losers, p*****s, a criminal enterprise that elevates you to wealth is far more preferable. 'Get rich or die tryin' is the mantra.

In summary, its clear that not every single black male born into 'rough' areas goes down this route, many make successful careers, father children and actually support them, crime is obviously NOT the only option.
Its also not just about race, all of the options are available to any creed or colour, its ALWAYS about culture, parenting, and above all, education.

Breaking the cycle of crime should start from the earliest age possible, blaming where you are born is the worst cop out imaginable, taking responsibility for your OWN actions rather than blaming societal factors should be the most important thing a child learns.

Good post.

I still think it’s not enough pool tables in yoof clubs though 😆

Edited August 30 by Mungler

[Rewulf]

45 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I still think it’s not enough pool tables in yoof clubs though

Not enough pool CUES, theyve all been turned into weapons.

If only there were enough youth clubs, so that young testosterone fuelled young men could congregate round them to practice their fighting skills ?
Thats the usual reason they get shut down, nothing to do with funding.

The other word I struggle with, is 'disenfranchised' like they are somehow OWED a direction, or its societies responsibility to keep them on the straight and narrow ?
While there is some guidance necessary to give people outlets to combat boredom and promote education, its always down to individuals personal responsibility on what to do with their lives.
The problem is these days, it always seems to be societies fault when they end up in jail, or becoming non contributing citizens, never their own for the poor decisions THEY have made.
The other end of the spectrum is that when someone does well in life, they never say, 'society/public services made me successful' its always down to their own individual hard work and dedication ?

[Mungler]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Not enough pool CUES, theyve all been turned into weapons.

If only there were enough youth clubs, so that young testosterone fuelled young men could congregate round them to practice their fighting skills ?
Thats the usual reason they get shut down, nothing to do with funding.

The other word I struggle with, is 'disenfranchised' like they are somehow OWED a direction, or its societies responsibility to keep them on the straight and narrow ?
While there is some guidance necessary to give people outlets to combat boredom and promote education, its always down to individuals personal responsibility on what to do with their lives.
The problem is these days, it always seems to be societies fault when they end up in jail, or becoming non contributing citizens, never their own for the poor decisions THEY have made.
The other end of the spectrum is that when someone does well in life, they never say, 'society/public services made me successful' its always down to their own individual hard work and dedication ?

Another good post.

My job has shown me that anyone can make money. Indeed of my top 10 clients there’s not an A level amongst them.

Ive told my kids they can be anything in life but lazy. 

[Raja Clavata]

7 hours ago, Rewulf said:

My take on the AI generated 'explanation' 

Its not their fault they carry and use knives.
The environment they live in/created, is to blame, and the culture they CHOOSE to embrace and foster, means they HAVE to carry weapons AND be willing to use them.
Peer pressure ? The gang they CHOOSE to be part of , MAKES them carry weapons and FORCES them to use them for the slightest provocation.
The 'Law of the jungle' is paramount, only the strongest will survive in the concrete ghetto (they have created)

Listen to most rap, grime or drill 'music' the clarion call of gang culture, it glorifies the use of weapons, 'alpha' hierarchy, and encourages the use of weapons to maim and indeed kill anyone that would challenge your authority, misogyny is strongly encouraged.
The police are your enemy.
Education is optional, and being part of the 'system' is probably best avoided.
Gainful employment is for losers, p*****s, a criminal enterprise that elevates you to wealth is far more preferable. 'Get rich or die tryin' is the mantra.

In summary, its clear that not every single black male born into 'rough' areas goes down this route, many make successful careers, father children and actually support them, crime is obviously NOT the only option.
Its also not just about race, all of the options are available to any creed or colour, its ALWAYS about culture, parenting, and above all, education.

Breaking the cycle of crime should start from the earliest age possible, blaming where you are born is the worst cop out imaginable, taking responsibility for your OWN actions rather than blaming societal factors should be the most important thing a child learns.

In my opinion, this is a prejudiced take on the AI generated text.

 

6 hours ago, Mungler said:

Raja has actually made my point for me.

Work ethic, love of education and familial ties - would that be their ‘culture’?

Statistics will show who or what carries out a disproportionate amount of crime or ends up disproportionately incarcerated. Those stats can then also be applied in a like for like comparison for other groups, ages, ethnicities etc.

Telling that the stats are available but won’t be released by the government. I wonder why? Probably for the best for the sake of multiculturalism.

Back to stop and search. Applying the statistics it’s absolutely the right thing to do and it’s notable the trajectory of knife crime since it was abandoned. Indeed, if young black men are more likely to stab, be stabbed and or end up in prison then there’s no point in stopping my mum to see if she has a bladed weapon on her.

And the AI answer is another reason why we should not let computers do all our thinking for us. Indeed voluntarily disengaging our own eyes and ears for a programmed answer - yeah what could possibly go wrong?

I can’t get over what a load of old nonsense / wafer thin excuses that that computer generated ’answer’ was. 

 

Good post.

I still think it’s not enough pool tables in yoof clubs though 😆

Again, I believe your prejudices lead to you interpreting the AI response as excuses.

No idea why you’re both banging on about youth clubs and pool tables either.

[12gauge82]

Mungler or Rewulf, if its not culture, upbringing and life experience that has led to certain demographics being over represented in crime, please explain the reason for it, I can't fathom any other sensible reason? 

[Zoli 12 guage]

23 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Mungler or Rewulf, if its not culture, upbringing and life experience that has led to certain demographics being over represented in crime, please explain the reason for it, I can't fathom any other sensible reason? 

every western country with a percentage population that are not of the demographic of that country (namely African/Asian and in the US Hispanic) ARE OVERLY REPRESENTED IN THE PRISON POPULATIONS,FACT!

Edited August 30 by Zoli 12 guage

[12gauge82]

17 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

every western country with a percentage population that are not of the demographic of that country (namely African/Asian and in the US Hispanic) ARE OVERLY REPRESENTED IN THE PRISON POPULATIONS,FACT!

I didn't say they weren't, what's your point? 

All those you have mentioned are also disproportionately poor. 

[Zoli 12 guage]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I didn't say they weren't, what's your point? 

All those you have mentioned are also disproportionately poor. 

my point is purely mathematical and as explained👍

they are also disproportionately members of gangs but does being "poor" absolve them of engaging in criminal activity and therefore being banged up🤔

 

[Yellow Bear]

13 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

disproportionately poor

Why - if they are prepared to work'

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

if its not culture, upbringing and life experience that has led to certain demographics being over represented in crime

That's not what I implied.

8 hours ago, Rewulf said:

crime is obviously NOT the only option.
Its also not just about race, all of the options are available to any creed or colour, its ALWAYS about culture, parenting, and above all, education

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

In my opinion, this is a prejudiced take on the AI generated text

I disagree,  the AI seeks to excuse poor personal behaviour , and blame it on a prejudiced society.

It removes personal responsibility, and shifts it away from the individual.

Everyone has choices in life.

Some make poor ones, and they're not all from the wrong side of town, or from minorities. 

[12gauge82]

58 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

my point is purely mathematical and as explained👍

they are also disproportionately members of gangs but does being "poor" absolve them of engaging in criminal activity and therefore being banged up🤔

 

If you read my previous posts I've made it very clear the answer is no. However, just blaming people without looking at root causes does very little to solve issues and is dangerous as it risks tarring everyone from certain groups with the same brush, which causes anger and resentment, which adds to further unwarranted blame and around and around it goes. 

56 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Why - if they are prepared to work'

You can't turn years of degradation around overnight and ignores the factors that have led to it. 

[12gauge82]

30 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

That's not what I implied.

 

 

Fair enough, it was mainly aimed at Mungler, who said I'd fallen into his trap. Seemed to deny culture exists and has failed so far to answer my question. I'm genuinely quite confused what his point is, as to be fair to him his posts are usually very well put together, but I think he's fallen short on this one (no offence intended). 

[Mungler]

Not sure what your question is.

If your question is why? Then my answer is ‘why’ is not important and is the wrong end of the telescope. Part of the lefty hand wringing culture is to focus to heavily on ‘why’. Why leads down the path of searching for and generating excuses. All we need to know is that not every group that starts from rock bottom perpetually ends up in the toilet.

My observation is family cohesion. And yes it’s a very old fashioned view these days, but as far as I can tell the best start anyone can have is with a mum and a dad who stick it out together and make sure their kids stick to and go as far as possible in the free education systems provided by this country and live within the law. Not that complicated. 

If ‘culture’ requires our acknowledging or respecting (for example) a bloke fathering 10 kids by 10 different women and not being a present parent to any or a male dominated environment where any female outside of a particular religious denomination counts for less than zero, then we all reap what that sows.

 

 

 

[12gauge82]

40 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Not sure what your question is.

If your question is why? Then my answer is ‘why’ is not important and is the wrong end of the telescope. Part of the lefty hand wringing culture is to focus to heavily on ‘why’. Why leads down the path of searching for and generating excuses. All we need to know is that not every group that starts from rock bottom perpetually ends up in the toilet.

My observation is family cohesion. And yes it’s a very old fashioned view these days, but as far as I can tell the best start anyone can have is with a mum and a dad who stick it out together and make sure their kids stick to and go as far as possible in the free education systems provided by this country and live within the law. Not that complicated. 

If ‘culture’ requires our acknowledging or respecting (for example) a bloke fathering 10 kids by 10 different women and not being a present parent to any or a male dominated environment where any female outside of a particular religious denomination counts for less than zero, then we all reap what that sows.

 

 

 

Without the why, we can't get to the solution, unless you want to simply point the finger of blame of course. 

And fatherless homes happen for a reason also, but again, ignoring the why, ignores the solution. 

Ignorance is bliss as they say?