Notting hill carnival

[Gordon R]

Quote

YES THERE IS, BUT I'D SAY LESS SO AS THE CRIMES AROUND MUCH OF THAT OFFENDING HAS BEEN AROUND FAR LONGER IN MOST CASES AND IS THEREFORE ALREADY BETTER UNDERSTOOD. ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION THOUGH. 

Absolute rubbish in upper case - the last refuge of the bankrupt argument.

I am all ears as to how we could understand, at an early stage, why mindless morons carry knives. Once we have grasped that they want to look hard and wound or kill someone, what next?

 

[Mungler]

18 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I'd not seen the article, but he's spot on, while people in ivory towers say the police can't do this or that, someone will sue and scream racism,  more people die from stabbings, but let's not target anyone to be searched, just let the violence continue. 

It is an incredible article which mirrors pretty much everything the sane on here have said and observed; acknowledging the truth of the problem and the stats, targeting race, age, gender and post code and with unfettered stop and search top of the ‘to do’ list. Pffft but what does he know eh? He’s probably got no experience or understanding of the subject matter or the complex and cultural issues and it’s not like the alternatives implemented over the last 6 years haven’t been a roaring success…

I wish I’d found the whole of the article sooner - it would have saved me a whole load of typing and a few some embarrassment 😉
.

Edited September 4 by Mungler

[12gauge82]

16 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Absolute rubbish in upper case - the last refuge of the bankrupt argument.

I am all ears as to how we could understand, at an early stage, why mindless morons carry knives. Once we have grasped that they want to look hard and wound or kill someone, what next?

 

Its in uppercase to highlight it from your text as I've answered your questions in the same quote box. 

[Gordon R]

It's still rubbish. It is meaningless.

 

[12gauge82]

17 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It is an incredible article which mirrors pretty much everything the sane on here have said and observed; acknowledging the truth of the problem and the stats, targeting race, age, gender and post code and with unfettered stop and search top of the ‘to do’ list. Pffft but what does he know eh? He’s probably got no experience or understanding of the subject matter or the complex and cultural issues and it’s not like the alternatives implemented over the last 6 years haven’t been a roaring success…

I wish I’d found the whole of the article sooner - it would have saved me a whole load of typing and a few some embarrassment 😉
.

I think the embarrassment is yours, you've asserted incorrect 'fact' several times, which has been highlighted. 

1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

It's still rubbish. It is meaningless.

 

Not at all. 

Go on then, why are black people disproportionately represented in knife crime since me saying its a complex issue is rubbish? 

[Gordon R]

You can't answer simple questions, but demand answers. You live in a very strange world. Others have spelt out the problem, but there are a small number of people - you included - who want to understand why they do it. I don't care why, I just want them locked away. 

Anyone, of any race, creed or colour, who carries a knife and will use it has no place in society.

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Go on then, why are black people disproportionately represented in knife crime since me saying its a complex issue is rubbish? 

Sorry for the hijack, but I would say it's because they commit more knife crime 😜 

Here's a good example, moped robbers, police not allowed to chase them or contact just in case they hurt them, so they always got away, moped crime snowballed. 

Someone with testicles said, why don't we smash the little darlings off their stolen mopeds ?

The lefties spluttered into their oat milk lattes, and cried racism, inhumane, how could you put these kids at risk of injury? They only do it because they're poor...

But amazingly the police got the go ahead , and moped thieves went flying... and as if by magic, moped crime virtually disappeared.

Sometimes it takes a firm hand, and maybe it might save some lives.

 

[12gauge82]

9 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

You can't answer simple questions, but demand answers. You live in a very strange world. Others have spelt out the problem, but there are a small number of people - you included - who want to understand why they do it. I don't care why, I just want them locked away. 

Anyone, of any race, creed or colour, who carries a knife and will use it has no place in society.

I think we've exhausted our limited debate. I enjoy different views, but find with some people, it always ends in insults. 

[12gauge82]

10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Sorry for the hijack, but I would say it's because they commit more knife crime 😜 

 

Yes very good 😂

[old man]

14 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Yes you do seem to have a personality clash going on there 

The thing is there are some things we can agree on, and others, well, not... But its pointless letting it get personal.

When someone makes the decision to stab an individual, there is always the risk that it can be fatal, sometimes that fatality can be intentional, but THEY made the decision to carry that weapon and use it, I dont really care how complex the underlying cause was, I dont care how poor they are, or they never knew their father, they might come from a tough estate, but nobody MADE them do it, they made a conscious decision to do it.

So yes, Ill deny the excuse, I grew up on a tough estate, I ran with gangs, but I never carried a knife, and I never stabbed anyone.

You are quite correct IMO and should be made to pay a severe price legally.

I used to be interested in things like the "age of responsibility" for child offences but gave up years ago.

No matter what is written in law doesn't seem to apply to children or adults now by the time various "excuses" have been applied most aquire "saintly status" at court time?

[old man]

15 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Can you remind me what my argument was again?

Agreed, no issues with any of that.

Nah, my main problem was with Mungler:

• Denying the complexities of the underlying causes and passing them off as excuses
• Accusing anyone not agreeing with him of being wet, left, hand wringer, various other...
• Accusing anyone not agreeing with him, who he also considers a Remainer, as being a deluded individual with flawed views of themself as having superior knowledge
• Exhibiting the exact same air of superiority in his postings
• Being a white middle class middle aged professional thinking (knowing for a fact) they've got all the answers 
• Seemingly being OK with two tier policing on knife crime but not on squashing recent civil unrest
• Selective sampling of examples to reinforce his point
• Selective/out of context/misquoting which just reinforces the banality of his arguments
• Referring to the royal (PW) we 
• Stating that "black was non-white the last time I checked" - that was the one that clinched it for me. 

There's probably more but I'm getting bored again already 😛 

My primary argument relevant to the topic is that the issue needs to be tackled holistically with stop and search as a part of a wider approach covering the underlying causes and proportional consequences of being found in breach of the rules. Confiscating weapons with no punishment is next to pointless in my opinion.

In the wider context I do also share some of 12gauge82's concerns.

Regarding ID cards, I'm 100% in favour of them. I'm also highly biased towards taking the majority of cash out of the economy too as I think it would collapse certain elements of crime, result in fairer taxation whilst boosting treasury funds and also be a great way of addressing our loosely regulated job market which is seen as one of the key attractions to illegal immigrants trying to get to the UK. 

Sadly, Igor and Chang could be banging them out in 24 hours?

I still don't want one thanks.

[old man]

9 hours ago, Gordon R said:

You can't answer simple questions, but demand answers. You live in a very strange world. Others have spelt out the problem, but there are a small number of people - you included - who want to understand why they do it. I don't care why, I just want them locked away. 

Anyone, of any race, creed or colour, who carries a knife and will use it has no place in society.

That goes for me too but with a slight alteration, it's all about the use of not the possession.

I've carried a knife for over 60 years and have never felt the need to harm anyone with it.

It irks me that my freedom to carry my knife may be removed because numerous little pieces of excrement seem to have no control over their actions.

I too want them removed from society.

To seek the reasons for their actions might be like trying to pin the tail on a non existent donkey but they should know for absolute certainty what unpleasantness will happen if they go off piste?

Edited September 5 by old man

[TIGHTCHOKE]

At last some form of agreement, STOP them carrying the knives with extensive searching and greater penalties.

 

Who cares what the reasons are, "they" are NOT conducting themselves correctly within society.

 

All of you who constantly defend them are WRONG.

[old man]

Maybe the National Curriculum needs altering from the age of 6?

The first lesson of the day being "Do not stab anyone" You won't enjoy the consequences? This can't be left to parenting?

[Penelope]

16 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Really! that's your interpretation of the whole reason of why, and how do you know that? 

Because I see with my own eyes.

[Mungler]

51 minutes ago, Penelope said:

Because I see with my own eyes.

 

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

 

11 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think the embarrassment is yours, you've asserted incorrect 'fact' several times, which has been highlighted. 

 

Really? Apart from some tangential dancing on the head of a pin about what happens if you don’t cough your details to a copper - what have I said that’s incorrect.

 

In other news, New York has similar problems which are easily identifiable by a target demographic.

It looks like they haven’t got on top of the complex and cultural issues 😆 What they need is bean bags, brain storming, mind mapping, focus groups, community leaders and more yoof clubs. Or they could of course just get the coppers to get on and do their jobs without all the hand wringing hand cuffs.

The pendulum is going to come swinging back hard. I think I’ll need two black Hugo Boss suits.

 

Edited September 5 by Mungler

[Raja Clavata]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/trevor-phillips-knife-how-to-stop-it/

 

[Zoli 12 guage]

different country,but i see the *** 14 year old that killed 4 at a Georgia school yesterday is to be tried as an adult.

i believe that Georgia still has the DP and if he dodges that i dare bet he does at least 50-60 yrs👍

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

Lesson one from the play book or the greatest feat of prophesy, ever, depending on your viewpoint.

[Penelope]

6 hours ago, Mungler said:

 

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

 

 

Really? Apart from some tangential dancing on the head of a pin about what happens if you don’t cough your details to a copper - what have I said that’s incorrect.

 

In other news, New York has similar problems which are easily identifiable by a target demographic.

It looks like they haven’t got on top of the complex and cultural issues 😆 What they need is bean bags, brain storming, mind mapping, focus groups, community leaders and more yoof clubs. Or they could of course just get the coppers to get on and do their jobs without all the hand wringing hand cuffs.

The pendulum is going to come swinging back hard. I think I’ll need two black Hugo Boss suits.

 

Isn't that the same chap that declared NYC a sanctuary city?

Edited September 5 by Penelope

[Mungler]

And this is where reality catches up with liberal hand wringing 

[islandgun]

Or......  have shops where the punter buys the product and pays tax on their legal high. resulting in a lot of stoned people making love not war. The money would be taken from the organised gangs thus negating the need to carry swords to protect their livelihood, 

[Rewulf]

51 minutes ago, Mungler said:

And this is where reality catches up with liberal hand wringing 

Absolutely 

[12gauge82]

54 minutes ago, Mungler said:

And this is where reality catches up with liberal hand wringing 

Well I'm glad you've got to the bottom of it all, I'm sure you'll have it all sorted by Tuesday 😁

[B686]

2 hours ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

different country,but i see the *** 14 year old that killed 4 at a Georgia school yesterday is to be tried as an adult.

i believe that Georgia still has the DP and if he dodges that i dare bet he does at least 50-60 yrs👍

‘This country should have those sort of sentences. See something in tv where 5 lads age between 17 and 21 knocked a lad off his bike got out and chased him down the road got him stabbed him about 18 or 19 times, obviously killed him they got between 14 and 18 or 20 years between them. They behave themselves inside the oldest one would just be in his very early 40’s when they get out pricks have still got the best part of their lives to live. In court one said they were out to **** someone up . All had names like Abdul , Mohammed and such like.