scolopax Posted November 17 Report Share Posted November 17 Don’t know much about crypto currency. Very sceptical like many others I suppose. but this summer I was speaking to a full time loader about his clients, the type who can afford to shoot big game days very regularly through the season. As I expected most are older wealthy businessmen, but an increasing amount are much younger ‘bitcoin’ millionaires, they have made large fortunes in crypto, they are real people and there are probably more out there than we realise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted November 17 Report Share Posted November 17 The modern day paths to riches bewilder me. It seems the days of hard work being the path to wealth have been replaced by gambling on pretend money, being a Youtube "Influencer" or flashing your blurter on Only Fans. It is a very strange world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted November 17 Report Share Posted November 17 In any form of speculation/gambling the mantra has to be that you only speculate/gamble what you are prepared to lose. I invested in bitcoin in 2014 and sold in 2021, my return was very good. I considered reinvesting, but felt that the whole system was getting shaky and exposed to fraud/hacking, etc. I think its more vulnerable now than it was then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7daysinaweek Posted November 17 Author Report Share Posted November 17 10 hours ago, scolopax said: Don’t know much about crypto currency. Very sceptical like many others I suppose. but this summer I was speaking to a full time loader about his clients, the type who can afford to shoot big game days very regularly through the season. As I expected most are older wealthy businessmen, but an increasing amount are much younger ‘bitcoin’ millionaires, they have made large fortunes in crypto, they are real people and there are probably more out there than we realise. Nothing wrong with being a bit sceptical. If it peaks your interest, do some light reading around it. 3 hours ago, 39TDS said: The modern day paths to riches bewilder me. It seems the days of hard work being the path to wealth have been replaced by gambling on pretend money, being a Youtube "Influencer" or flashing your blurter on Only Fans. It is a very strange world. Depends what you define as 'hard work', as you allude to a certain degree that trying to make money from some forms of cryptocurrency is a quick path to wealth without any form of effort. For a very few individuals, they become wealthy for very little effort when buying or selling cryptocurrency. For sure, for some buys, it is pure gambling, no different to going to the betting shop and chucking money on a horse or boxing match. For other aspects of serious trading within cryptocurrency, it requires a degree of fundamental technical analysis, macro and micro global economic factors analysis, on chain cryptoghraphic analysis which has taken me literally thousands of hours over the past 10-12 years to learn and apply. No one taught me and it has been a bloody hard learning curve. How I see it, trading energy commodities is for many a form of work for many?, such as gas, oil, electricity. If not, what is the difference to my trading of Etherium cryptocurrency which is used by Visa card as part of their global financial settlement network. It is a emerging blockchain technology that like many cryptocurrencies have real world uses. No different to many stocks and shares. Bitcoin is now recognised as a distributed ledger asset that hedges to an extent against inflation. Agreeably there is lots of garbage within the crypto trading sphere, but not everything has no real world value, and I do agree as you may allude, that what does not help are stupid 'influencers' that jump onto the crypto bandwagon with less than moral narratives and 'push' a poor narrative/application certain coin, as most people make a loss and are left holding a worthless bag of garbage. In many respects, garbage cryptocurrencies have similaraties to garbage penny stocks that offer no real world value, are highly speculative, are prone to pump and dumps. I see the poorer crypto coins as the penny stock of the crypto world. Most will go to zero, however, every now and again one will give significant gains. I hold many cryptocurrencies that are effectively the fuel to run automated smart contracts for global financial instruments that are already being increasingly implemented into the global financial networks. What is increasingly changing, is that whether we like it or not, humans are getting replaced to an extent by blochain technology in some form or another. For example mrs7days is a accoutant, she has already seen a reduction in her work in certain areas due to the implementation of blockchain technology which is crypto. I put a link in below which estimates that a reduction of 50% of the work of accountants by implementation of blockchain. Worrying for us, but technology waits for no one. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21582440231222419?icid=int.sj-abstract.similar-articles.9#:~:text=Using blockchain with accounting in,of dollars for businesses globally. What I learnt was when trying to trade forex and in the stock market is that you are against extermely powerful market makers with much more effecient trading systems that you can almost never compete against, it is generally a closed market to retail. What has helped me is that within trading bitcoin and the like, is that I gained an edge by being able to access on chain data to help forecast the market to a degree that fell in my favour among many other factors. I hope this gives you a small degree of insight into what some forms of cryptocurrency are, for most people only get to hear the word 'crypto' and dismiss it to a greater extent without ever seeking any knowledge on the subject. That is fine, but thankfully, it is not all make up and silliness. When I make my billions, I will drive over in my bentley and take you out fora 5 star lunch. Or if I lose it all, it will be a fry up in the local greasy spoon, dont book a table yet. 👍 5 minutes ago, Cranfield said: In any form of speculation/gambling the mantra has to be that you only speculate/gamble what you are prepared to lose. I invested in bitcoin in 2014 and sold in 2021, my return was very good. I considered reinvesting, but felt that the whole system was getting shaky and exposed to fraud/hacking, etc. I think its more vulnerable now than it was then. There is lots of money in crypto and if you follow the space like I do, you realise just how many people are invested in it, for some it is a bit of fun putting in a small bit of money that they can afford to lose. For others it is serious trading. This cycle will print more millionaires than the 3 previous cycles, as the long term holders of bitcoin going back 10-12 years will be taking profits at around a 100k and beyond. As you allude, it is 'new money', but the old mantra rings true with all forms of investment and trading, if that if if gives you the jitters, don't trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted November 17 Report Share Posted November 17 1 hour ago, 7daysinaweek said: Nothing wrong with being a bit sceptical. If it peaks your interest, do some light reading around it. Depends what you define as 'hard work', as you allude to a certain degree that trying to make money from some forms of cryptocurrency is a quick path to wealth without any form of effort. For a very few individuals, they become wealthy for very little effort when buying or selling cryptocurrency. For sure, for some buys, it is pure gambling, no different to going to the betting shop and chucking money on a horse or boxing match. For other aspects of serious trading within cryptocurrency, it requires a degree of fundamental technical analysis, macro and micro global economic factors analysis, on chain cryptoghraphic analysis which has taken me literally thousands of hours over the past 10-12 years to learn and apply. No one taught me and it has been a bloody hard learning curve. How I see it, trading energy commodities is for many a form of work for many?, such as gas, oil, electricity. If not, what is the difference to my trading of Etherium cryptocurrency which is used by Visa card as part of their global financial settlement network. It is a emerging blockchain technology that like many cryptocurrencies have real world uses. No different to many stocks and shares. Bitcoin is now recognised as a distributed ledger asset that hedges to an extent against inflation. Agreeably there is lots of garbage within the crypto trading sphere, but not everything has no real world value, and I do agree as you may allude, that what does not help are stupid 'influencers' that jump onto the crypto bandwagon with less than moral narratives and 'push' a poor narrative/application certain coin, as most people make a loss and are left holding a worthless bag of garbage. In many respects, garbage cryptocurrencies have similaraties to garbage penny stocks that offer no real world value, are highly speculative, are prone to pump and dumps. I see the poorer crypto coins as the penny stock of the crypto world. Most will go to zero, however, every now and again one will give significant gains. I hold many cryptocurrencies that are effectively the fuel to run automated smart contracts for global financial instruments that are already being increasingly implemented into the global financial networks. What is increasingly changing, is that whether we like it or not, humans are getting replaced to an extent by blochain technology in some form or another. For example mrs7days is a accoutant, she has already seen a reduction in her work in certain areas due to the implementation of blockchain technology which is crypto. I put a link in below which estimates that a reduction of 50% of the work of accountants by implementation of blockchain. Worrying for us, but technology waits for no one. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21582440231222419?icid=int.sj-abstract.similar-articles.9#:~:text=Using blockchain with accounting in,of dollars for businesses globally. What I learnt was when trying to trade forex and in the stock market is that you are against extermely powerful market makers with much more effecient trading systems that you can almost never compete against, it is generally a closed market to retail. What has helped me is that within trading bitcoin and the like, is that I gained an edge by being able to access on chain data to help forecast the market to a degree that fell in my favour among many other factors. I hope this gives you a small degree of insight into what some forms of cryptocurrency are, for most people only get to hear the word 'crypto' and dismiss it to a greater extent without ever seeking any knowledge on the subject. That is fine, but thankfully, it is not all make up and silliness. When I make my billions, I will drive over in my bentley and take you out fora 5 star lunch. Or if I lose it all, it will be a fry up in the local greasy spoon, dont book a table yet. 👍 There is lots of money in crypto and if you follow the space like I do, you realise just how many people are invested in it, for some it is a bit of fun putting in a small bit of money that they can afford to lose. For others it is serious trading. This cycle will print more millionaires than the 3 previous cycles, as the long term holders of bitcoin going back 10-12 years will be taking profits at around a 100k and beyond. As you allude, it is 'new money', but the old mantra rings true with all forms of investment and trading, if that if if gives you the jitters, don't trade. You can , think and type , faster than I can read 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7daysinaweek Posted November 17 Author Report Share Posted November 17 15 minutes ago, mel b3 said: You can , think and type , faster than I can read 😄 I get my admin team to do it Mel. Actually that is mrs 7days, Actually, it is really me typing , you can tell by my poor grammar and spelling mistakes, was never good at stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted November 17 Report Share Posted November 17 3 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said: I get my admin team to do it Mel. Actually that is mrs 7days, Actually, it is really me typing , you can tell by my poor grammar and spelling mistakes, was never good at stuff like that. I reckon that if I got everyone I know to chip in , we'd still be slower than you 😄. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdog Posted November 17 Report Share Posted November 17 Bitcoin Maxi here 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7daysinaweek Posted November 17 Author Report Share Posted November 17 12 minutes ago, mel b3 said: I reckon that if I got everyone I know to chip in , we'd still be slower than you 😄. Surely not! 👍 7 minutes ago, zipdog said: Bitcoin Maxi here 👍 How are you doing ZD?, I remember your contributions to my Bitcoin posts back in 2017. I hope your crypto dabblings find you good and well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 On 17/11/2024 at 08:06, 39TDS said: The modern day paths to riches bewilder me. It seems the days of hard work being the path to wealth have been replaced by gambling on pretend money, being a Youtube "Influencer" or flashing your blurter on Only Fans. It is a very strange world. Yep and full on AI will complete the loop by giving the weird ones the means to really go off piste in an unfettered way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 Bitcoin is a speculative short term bouncing ball. However it is now a question of when, not if, the encryption gets cracked open. I'm sure the encryption is good for a few years yet, but bitcoin as any long term platform / transactional solution is over. When it does ‘go’ it’s going to be an interesting first domino in what will no doubt look like a global economic meltdown especially since there are now pension and investment funds taking holdings in bitcoin. The warnings are clear and visible. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 The pyramid will fall from the top down...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 12 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: The pyramid will fall from the top down...... The chatter is that bitcoin is good for at least 10 years and so work to 5. I rather hope that there will be a gradual decline in value over years as people see the end coming over the horizon and not an overnight collapse which will see 1% of global currency vaporised in a day. That won’t be pretty. Be interesting to see what happens to bitcoin price from here on in. I reckon we’ll keep seeing gold go up - people continue to ascribe value to gold, there is a finite discovered supply (which fills but two Olympic sized swimming pools) and gold can’t be cracked open, counterfeited or mass produced from thin air. Interesting times for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 Willow represents 105 qubits and its estimated between 9-15 million qubits would be required to compromise stored crypto currency. At least 10 years looks like a “safe” bet but crypto is clearly inherently risky anyhow and I don’t want any of my pension funds invested in it. It should also be considered that quantum can be used to improve encryption as well as to compromise it. Plus there are various research programs looking at post quantum cryptography algorithms being available prior to quantum, although I’m not entirely sure how that works / gets validated in advance. I must admit that when I think about quantum, crypto currency is not at the top of my concerns but from an economic perspective gold certainly looks king. I have greater concerns over the impact on compromised critical infrastructure, including nuclear. It feels to me like quantum has the potential to create a singularity along similar lines to the realisation of artificial general intelligence, but maybe I’m getting cynical in my old age. Interesting times indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 33 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Willow represents 105 qubits and its estimated between 9-15 million qubits would be required to compromise stored crypto currency. At least 10 years looks like a “safe” bet but crypto is clearly inherently risky anyhow and I don’t want any of my pension funds invested in it. It should also be considered that quantum can be used to improve encryption as well as to compromise it. Plus there are various research programs looking at post quantum cryptography algorithms being available prior to quantum, although I’m not entirely sure how that works / gets validated in advance. I must admit that when I think about quantum, crypto currency is not at the top of my concerns but from an economic perspective gold certainly looks king. I have greater concerns over the impact on compromised critical infrastructure, including nuclear. It feels to me like quantum has the potential to create a singularity along similar lines to the realisation of artificial general intelligence, but maybe I’m getting cynical in my old age. Interesting times indeed. Agreed on all accounts. My expectation is that drone tech and AI will drive encryption (both to crack and protect), and 5 years appears about right to me and if I’m wrong it’s 10 years. Worrying when how quickly the last 10 years flew by for me 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 1 hour ago, Mungler said: ... Worrying when how quickly the last 10 years flew by for me 😆 Sign of age, Andrew, sign of age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 43 minutes ago, amateur said: Sign of age, Andrew, sign of age You know it 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted December 10 Report Share Posted December 10 3 hours ago, Mungler said: Agreed on all accounts. My expectation is that drone tech and AI will drive encryption (both to crack and protect), and 5 years appears about right to me and if I’m wrong it’s 10 years. Worrying when how quickly the last 10 years flew by for me 😆 I think AES256 is relatively safe for now but actually thinking about it, AI might reduce the number of quantum compute qubits required to crack it. Personally, I hope to be retired prior to real AI and Quantum Compute breakthroughs. I’ve had to get involved in some Generative AI at work (hands off but still involved) but I don’t really consider that to be proper AI. I might just be able to get out in time 🤞 And yeah, it’s scary how quickly 10 years passes when you reach middle age 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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