oowee Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 19 minutes ago, button said: Ok, so your business is making a loss, how does it pay you back? How does it pay dividends as these can’t be declared if it’s not making profit? The following year after making a loss it returns to profit to pay debt. This might simply be deferring income from year one to year two. In year two profit is reduced as debts are re paid again reducing tax on the company. The problem comes when the company owner wants a loan against assets with no income but even with this there are ways around, particularly with private banking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 3 minutes ago, oowee said: The following year after making a loss it returns to profit to pay debt. This might simply be deferring income from year one to year two. In year two profit is reduced as debts are re paid again reducing tax on the company. The problem comes when the company owner wants a loan against assets with no income but even with this there are ways around, particularly with private banking. So you are now making a profit and getting your money back, are you charging interest on said loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 41 minutes ago, button said: So you are now making a profit and getting your money back, are you charging interest on said loan? Yes, director “loans” are allowed to charge interest. https://www.pricebailey.co.uk/blog/directors-loan-interest-reduce-tax-bill/ As are “loans” from one company to another, with one company based in an off shore tax haven which pays no / tiny amounts of tax, whilst the company “based in the UK” makes a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 56 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Yes, director “loans” are allowed to charge interest. https://www.pricebailey.co.uk/blog/directors-loan-interest-reduce-tax-bill/ As are “loans” from one company to another, with one company based in an off shore tax haven which pays no / tiny amounts of tax, whilst the company “based in the UK” makes a loss. Glad you confirmed that so that interest now becomes taxable, so where is the dodge? You lent money, which you paid tax on to start with, which you are repaid with interest, which you are now taxed on? Company based in off shore tax haven? Seriously it’s a possibility, do you know many doing it? I have been in the game for 30 years and I have rarely come across structures like this, I really would not believe everything you read and hear as the ones doing the telling tend to have very creative minds and tend to be experts in most subjects, or so they think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted November 18 Report Share Posted November 18 48 minutes ago, button said: Glad you confirmed that so that interest now becomes taxable, so where is the dodge? You lent money, which you paid tax on to start with, which you are repaid with interest, which you are now taxed on? Company based in off shore tax haven? Seriously it’s a possibility, do you know many doing it? I have been in the game for 30 years and I have rarely come across structures like this, I really would not believe everything you read and hear as the ones doing the telling tend to have very creative minds and tend to be experts in most subjects, or so they think We’re not talking about small companies with a handful of employees. That’s who should be able to give and charge interest on director loans. Who they’re aimed at. I’m talking about the types of people named in the Panama papers. Or this: https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/offshore-companies-with-uk-property-not-stating-beneficial-owners Its exactly those types of people who’ve got inheritance tax added to farms… because they were using it not as intended to fiddle massive amounts of land / income out from inheritance tax. The everyday man who inherits a house from a deceased relative may end up paying it, but a millionaire who buys up a sporting estate is exempt. What game have you been in for 30 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nublue 22 Posted November 18 Author Report Share Posted November 18 What's the red note worth in monopoly?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: We’re not talking about small companies with a handful of employees. That’s who should be able to give and charge interest on director loans. Who they’re aimed at. I’m talking about the types of people named in the Panama papers. Or this: https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/30/offshore-companies-with-uk-property-not-stating-beneficial-owners Its exactly those types of people who’ve got inheritance tax added to farms… because they were using it not as intended to fiddle massive amounts of land / income out from inheritance tax. The everyday man who inherits a house from a deceased relative may end up paying it, but a millionaire who buys up a sporting estate is exempt. What game have you been in for 30 years? You previously talked about the self employed buying a pick up as a "work vehicle" which btw you will be glad to hear they have now closed that loophole for companies and the BIK is going to significantly increase, so is the target of your dissatisfaction small business owners or millionaires? As for somebody buying a sporting estate very few would buy it in their own name so if it was bought via a company that would not have been subject to IHT anyhow Just make sure next time your out on your permission you tell the landowner your delighted he will have to pay IHT and it's a disgrace they have got away with it for so long Jealousy and envy are not qualities that I find endearing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 7 minutes ago, button said: You previously talked about the self employed buying a pick up as a "work vehicle" which btw you will be glad to hear they have now closed that loophole for companies and the BIK is going to significantly increase, so is the target of your dissatisfaction small business owners or millionaires? As for somebody buying a sporting estate very few would buy it in their own name so if it was bought via a company that would not have been subject to IHT anyhow Just make sure next time your out on your permission you tell the landowner your delighted he will have to pay IHT and it's a disgrace they have got away with it for so long Jealousy and envy are not qualities that I find endearing The farmer on my permission is a tenant farmer, the land is owned by a family who don’t farm it themselves and just own several farms in the area. My old permission / shoot I used to go was bought up by Dyson and he kicked all the shoots off. He wanted somewhere to put his billions without IHT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 People are still not getting it. There should be NO such thing as a death tax (IHT).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 4 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: People are still not getting it. There should be NO such thing as a death tax (IHT).... /\. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 9 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: My old permission / shoot I used to go was bought up by Dyson and he kicked all the shoots off. He wanted somewhere to put his billions without IHT. I have a friend who runs a shoot on land owned by Dyson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 1 hour ago, London Best said: I have a friend who runs a shoot on land owned by Dyson. Well he 100% kicked the shoot off that I used to go beating on. Syndicate shoot with 2 lads stuck loads of work into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 10 hours ago, Newbie to this said: People are still not getting it. There should be NO such thing as a death tax (IHT).... Why? The last thing we want is an ever increasing gap between rich and poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 3 minutes ago, oowee said: Why? The last thing we want is an ever increasing gap between rich and poor. If the riches that are accrued by one's labour are removed upon death, then there is less incentive to become richer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 3 minutes ago, amateur said: If the riches that are accrued by one's labour are removed upon death, then there is less incentive to become richer. They are not being removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 4 minutes ago, oowee said: They are not being removed. If they’re taken away from you as a compulsory tax, isnt that ‘removed’? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 7 minutes ago, oowee said: They are not being removed. Ah, of course, they are just being redistributed by our all benevolent civil servants to the feckless. Silly me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 1 minute ago, Scully said: If they’re taken away from you as a compulsory tax, isnt that ‘removed’? Whats 'they're' taken away? Riches? 🙂 IHT is drawing back some from the richest back to the state. Most believe money makes money. A fair society recognises that wealth of a few is built on the back of many. IHT is perhaps a way to ameliorate the worst excesses. 1 minute ago, amateur said: Ah, of course, they are just being redistributed by our all benevolent civil servants to the feckless. Silly me. What are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 1 hour ago, London Best said: I have a friend who runs a shoot on land owned by Dyson. How he is investing money into land we will know several people who shoot , or have shot on My Dyson's land . A bit of useless information , when he was very young he didn't have a great deal of cash , he was paid for to go to the Gresham boarding school at Holt in Norfolk and he never forgot the good service he got from the school, last November he donated £35 million , yes £35 million pounds to create a new prep school and to restore Holt hall , now that is a good donation . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 1 minute ago, oowee said: Whats 'they're' taken away? Riches? 🙂 IHT is drawing back some from the richest back to the state. Most believe money makes money. A fair society recognises that wealth of a few is built on the back of many. IHT is perhaps a way to ameliorate the worst excesses. What are? I cant decide if you are been serious or not and just on the wind up I work hard, pay alot of tax, spend some and save some and want to make sure our children are secure, but it appears for you that's not enough you then want to tax me for been sensible? Who decides if my wealth is excessive? If you are been serious you might get called to join Kier's top team, it appears your views align with his, just rename it Green Eyed Monster tax 4 minutes ago, marsh man said: How he is investing money into land we will know several people who shoot , or have shot on My Dyson's land . A bit of useless information , when he was very young he didn't have a great deal of cash , he was paid for to go to the Gresham boarding school at Holt in Norfolk and he never forgot the good service he got from the school, last November he donated £35 million , yes £35 million pounds to create a new prep school and to restore Holt hall , now that is a good donation . MM Dont spoil the image that the rich do no good in society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 4 minutes ago, oowee said: Whats 'they're' taken away? Riches? Money or wealth if you prefer, accumulated through profit ( like any other good business ) which in turn is accumulated as a result of good working practice and then invested back into that business ( just like any other good business ) but then ‘removed’ as a compulsory tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 1 minute ago, button said: I work hard, pay alot of tax, spend some and save some and want to make sure our children are secure, but it appears for you that's not enough you then want to tax me for been sensible? Who decides if my wealth is excessive? It's good to try and look after your offspring. There are ways to do that now and there will be going forward. Just now, Scully said: Money or wealth if you prefer, accumulated through profit ( like any other good business ) which in turn is accumulated as a result of good working practice and then invested back into that business ( just like any other good business ) but then ‘removed’ as a compulsory tax. No one is suggesting it is removed. The proposal is for a portion to be paid in tax. If the money is in the business rather than the ownership of individuals there will be no tax to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 You should not have to jump through loads of hoops and pay large sums to lawyers and accountants to be able to do the simple thing and leave some security to your family when you die. And whatever you do, there is always the risk that Gov't will move the goalposts wrecking your plans. People have saved in pension funds - which form some of the working capital for British Industry - encouraged by the Gov't leaving the fund outside the deceased's 'Estate'. Not a 'loophole', but how the tax rules were set up - to help provide funds for British Industry and encourage people to save for their old age and family security. People planned to use that to pay tax due and support their family - but that has been changed ruining carefully made plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Something I haven't got to worry about is paying a load of inheritance tax , something I can never understand is ,you work all your life to end up with a decent standard of living , you achieve this and yet a lot of people are still intent to go out of there way to make even more money , where do they get there incentive from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 3 minutes ago, marsh man said: and yet a lot of people are still intent to go out of there way to make even more money , where do they get there incentive from ? I guess some are never satisfied? Maybe it's 'greed'? To me, you are taxed when you earn money (Income, NI, CGT), you are taxed when you spend money (VAT, Excise duty, and various other taxes on things we buy and services we use. You should be free having paid tax to GIVE it free of charge to whoever you wish. If they spend it, they will pay the taxes due. I shouldn't have to pay any more Inheritance Tax (I did pay a modest amount when my father died, because I inherited his bungalow) because I have no other potential inheritance. However, I would like to be able to give my house and any remaining savings etc to my family (nieces and nephews) when I die, but that will be subject to a lot of tax, which will probably mean the house has to be sold. It is not what I want, but I suspect it will be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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