Milage 'clocking' more prevalent than previously thought

[Vince Green]

I have been reading on a motor trades forum that the practice of clocking the milage on cars is much more common that previously thought.

part of the problem is that the plug in software to do it is so readily available.

the other side of the problem is that so many makes of car allow the milage to be altered by this software without any sort of security firewall to prevent tampering.

Once a car is three years old it goes into the MOT database and milage is recorded. So tampering with the milage after this point becomes difficult.

However, three years is also the usual lease period so many cars are leased out from new  for three years with a contract milage of 30,000 miles. They highlight the "amazing coincidence " that so many of these cars are returned with milage just under 30,000 miles . Read into that what you will.

 

[clangerman]

43 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

 

Once a car is three years old it goes into the MOT database and milage is recorded. So tampering with the milage after this point becomes difficult.

 

 

the data base is useless if you knock back most of the mileage just before a cars mot your only certainty of mileage now is condition and that takes a mechanic able to look farther than a new gearstick gator or peddle rubbers 

[Wymondley]

It's been rife for years, and the technology exists to completely eliminate it, it's just the manufactures have no inclination to use it.

17 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Once a car is three years old it goes into the MOT database and milage is recorded. So tampering with the milage after this point becomes difficult.

Not really, think of vehicles used for mini cab/private hire/delivery's, some of these are registered to one owner and "rented" to multiple drivers and run 24/7 they clock up a huge mileage.

You only have to wind the mileage back prior to each MOT to make it appear the vehicle is only covering average or less than average mileage each year.

At the end of five years you have a one owner 50,000ml vehicle with a supposedly verifiable mileage history that's actually done 500,000ml.

That obviously has a significant impact on the vehicles value.

[Gordon R]

Wymondley - correct.

[Vince Green]

10 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Wymondley - correct.

Apparently it is so easy to do on some cars that it can be done in a few minutes.  Simply by plugged in a laptop with the appropriate software and over writing the existing milage with a lower figure.

The question is why the manufacturers don't make the milage field impossible to overwrite?

The answer allegedly is because they use the facility to wipe out delivery milage and demo milage. I don't know how true that is?

[Mungler]

Most car mileages end up anchored to annual MoTs but also computer servicing records particularly held at main dealers for the period to the 1st MoT. If you buy a new car you are sucked into the main dealer history for the first 3 years come what may. 

I am also aware that within cars there are other mileage recording mechanisms. I have seen a few instances involving Ferraris and Lambos where mileages are often tricked to retain value and warranty cover. Turns out, in most hypercars there’s a form of distance recording in the gearbox and elsewhere in the car’s infrastructure. 

The nirvana on a second hand car buying is one owner and full service history, and you buy the seller not the car ie rock up to Mr & Mrs retired in their £1m house with a gravel drive and Bob’s your uncle.

The last car I bought (an i3) was a few weeks ago and off a nice 4’ 10” Jewish lady in her 80’s - the car came with a full set of orthopaedic cushions and 3 different types of charging cable (each at a couple of hundred quid a go). Do I think she raced it or clocked it? No. And if she was in the trade, the cushions and cables would have gone along with anything else not bolted down that could be ebayed.

But if you look at buying an A8, S class, E class, Toyota Prius, Ionic etc off a certain type from a certain post code then I’d lay money that the car is chauffeured / mini cabbed, that the mileage has had a haircut and the history stamped up from a dealer stamp bought off eBay 😆

Indeed, I wouldn’t even bother looking at any car being sold with an 0208 phone number attached to it. 

[JohnfromUK]

My present car (Toyota) was 2 years old when I bought it.  I can access the full service history (at Toyota dealerships) 'on-line' - and it supports the mileage (which was actually on the high side for a 2 year old car). 

The Toyota 'connectivity' is quite intrusive (many would find it over intrusive) as it logs every journey.  It doesn't greatly bother me, but I can see many finding that the lack of privacy is unacceptable.   I suspect it can be turned off, but not sure how you know that it isn't still going on in the background - and that all you have turned off is your ability to 'see it'?

[ph5172]

I recall the saying used to be along the lines of avoid Birmingham and Bradford cars!

 

I was watching the usual channels featuring a guy who hires out supercars. 
he has tracker inbuilt that monitors all telemetry based bits. In part to avoid clocking and to check if people are track day ing the car. 
he was saying supercar clocking is a massive issue 

[Vince Green]

50 minutes ago, ph5172 said:

I recall the saying used to be along the lines of avoid Birmingham and Bradford cars!

 

I was watching the usual channels featuring a guy who hires out supercars. 
he has tracker inbuilt that monitors all telemetry based bits. In part to avoid clocking and to check if people are track day ing the car. 
he was saying supercar clocking is a massive issue 

The flip side of that though where cars like Ferraris and Lambos are concerned is that a lot of them genuinely only do Sunday milage.  Harley motorcycles are the same. 

[Mungler]

12 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The flip side of that though where cars like Ferraris and Lambos are concerned is that a lot of them genuinely only do Sunday milage.  Harley motorcycles are the same. 

It’s an interesting one. 

Bloke down the road from me has a newish Ferrari - he got it last year and I’ll reckon he’ll move it on by end of 2026 at the latest.

It’s under a cover for 10 months of a year and in summer gets driven at weekends only because he commutes by train to London during the week. Factor in 2 weeks family summer holiday, that car can only get used on maybe 20 days in any year, maximum. On the maths with insurance, repairs, storage costs etc they are nothing but a pretty money pit. Also factor in, when we were 17 we were in a circle of lads, all driving, all young and always out. Where are you going to drive to and who are you going to drive with in your 50’s? What Ferrari / Harley ownership actually is and what it looks like in your mind are two very different things.

Following on, people tend to have these cars for a year a go before they wake up - meaning a 5 year old Ferrari can have 5+ owners. Change in ownership, car location and servicing garage are all windows of opportunity to monkey with the mileage. Factor in that there are key mileage markers with these cars where the engine needs a rebuild or it’s time for belts and a clutch - all £10k min a pop, that’s when the clocks get wound back and the car moved on. 

I learnt my lesson with Harley ownership - being overtaken by a lorry in the pouring rain on the A130 and it was ‘what the f am I doing on this piece of garbage?’. And it was gone within the week.

Ive always fancied a Ferrari for the noise and the trouser twitch but my inner accountant has always stopped me in the nick of time.

[London Best]

Not that I could afford one, but my thoughts with those sort of cars are always, “where would I put three labradors and two dead deer in that thing?”

[Vince Green]

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

It’s an interesting one. 

Bloke down the road from me has a newish Ferrari - he got it last year and I’ll reckon he’ll move it on by end of 2026 at the latest.

It’s under a cover for 10 months of a year and in summer gets driven at weekends only because he commutes by train to London during the week. Factor in 2 weeks family summer holiday, that car can only get used on maybe 20 days in any year, maximum. On the maths with insurance, repairs, storage costs etc they are nothing but a pretty money pit. Also factor in, when we were 17 we were in a circle of lads, all driving, all young and always out. Where are you going to drive to and who are you going to drive with in your 50’s? What Ferrari / Harley ownership actually is and what it looks like in your mind are two very different things.

Following on, people tend to have these cars for a year a go before they wake up - meaning a 5 year old Ferrari can have 5+ owners. Change in ownership, car location and servicing garage are all windows of opportunity to monkey with the mileage. Factor in that there are key mileage markers with these cars where the engine needs a rebuild or it’s time for belts and a clutch - all £10k min a pop, that’s when the clocks get wound back and the car moved on. 

I learnt my lesson with Harley ownership - being overtaken by a lorry in the pouring rain on the A130 and it was ‘what the f am I doing on this piece of garbage?’. And it was gone within the week.

Ive always fancied a Ferrari for the noise and the trouser twitch but my inner accountant has always stopped me in the nick of time.

I found that with my Mercedes SL55 AMG. Most of the time I would use my company van to go places and the car was reserved for special occasions which became fewer and fewer

[jall25]

58 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I found that with my Mercedes SL55 AMG. Most of the time I would use my company van to go places and the car was reserved for special occasions which became fewer and fewer

Me too - always had nice cars - M3 /4 - RS4,6 - Nissan Gtr - etc etc - packed in work last year and the car did not move for months on end

Sold it - now run about in a 20 year old disco every day - and love it !

Keep getting the itch for a caterham / westfield again for track use - but then i realise i have no time really to use it