BASC (renewing FAC)

[steve_b_wales]

BASC are now recommending SHOOT CERT to get your GP Pro Forma. Priced at £75+VAT.

Anyone used them?

[eggy74]

Yep, I used them a little over a year ago as i didnt trust my G.P. 

the service from Shootcert was first rate, giving advice and emailing me updates along the way. 

once they had the paperwork from my G.P. they did their bit and got it to the police in two days. 

They also keep it all on file for three months or so afterwards in case you need other copies. after that they have to wipe it for data protection  

[Weihrauch17]

35 minutes ago, eggy74 said:

Yep, I used them a little over a year ago as i didnt trust my G.P. 

the service from Shootcert was first rate, giving advice and emailing me updates along the way. 

once they had the paperwork from my G.P. they did their bit and got it to the police in two days. 

They also keep it all on file for three months or so afterwards in case you need other copies. after that they have to wipe it for data protection  

The completed form should go to you not the Police?

[Red carp]

BASC were also recommending when the GP Pro Forma was first introduced not to bother with it just send your renewal in without it 🙄

[scarecrow243]

all the G.P. forms that are filled are sent to the firearms department they should not be returned to you   its in case you alter the report

[Conor O'Gorman]

36 minutes ago, Red carp said:

BASC were also recommending when the GP Pro Forma was first introduced not to bother with it just send your renewal in without it 🙄

I don't think that is quite right. My memory is that during the initial roll-out of the 2016 Home Office firearms licensing guidance the process was that you were granted your certificate and the GP was then informed and asked to add a medical marker to their system and they had 21 days to state if there was any issue with their medical records vs your medical declaration form. That battle around GPs charging for checking records and placing the medical marker was relatively short-lived because the guidance was then revised and GP involvement was required before the grant of certificate and not afterwards.

[Weihrauch17]

54 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

all the G.P. forms that are filled are sent to the firearms department they should not be returned to you   its in case you alter the report

 You are correct, I didn't realise it went to the applicant and the Police.  The application says they want the full pack including the Medical Certificate.

Edited Tuesday at 21:05 by Weihrauch17

[Minky]

3 hours ago, steve_b_wales said:

BASC are now recommending SHOOT CERT to get your GP Pro Forma. Priced at £75+VAT.

Anyone used them?

So . A bloke that I was speaking with the other day said that he'd paid£25 for his doc ticket.  I think that I paid about £50 last time.  SO  who is the cheapest. Certainly not £75 + VAT.  I  can't get my head around how some stranger who has never met me or spoken to me can write out any sort of medical  report as to whether I am medically fit to have a firearm or shotgun cert.  Again it is basic that just jumped on the bandwagon to make a quick buck out of shooters and not pushing back this nonsense.   Just another hoop to jump through. 

Edit. The last time we had an feo visit our club he did mention 2 different outfits that did doc certs but I can't remember who they were.   Again just companies making money out of the situation.  When my cert was done I was sent a copy and another one was sent direct to the firearms depth.  The copy that I had looked like the person who had filled no scribbled on it was just tick tick tick between other patients .  I'd  never even been seen by the person who was supposed to have signed it.  I think that my medical practice has about 10 doctors and I only know about 2 of them.

Edited Tuesday at 21:28 by Minky

[Weihrauch17]

3 hours ago, steve_b_wales said:

BASC are now recommending SHOOT CERT to get your GP Pro Forma. Priced at £75+VAT.

Anyone used them?

On Commision no doubt!

[Red carp]

I renewed late 2024 & my doctor changed me £40 👍

[Scully]

31 minutes ago, Minky said:

So . A bloke that I was speaking with the other day said that he'd paid£25 for his doc ticket.  I think that I paid about £50 last time.  SO  who is the cheapest. Certainly not £75 + VAT.  I  can't get my head around how some stranger who has never met me or spoken to me can write out any sort of medical  report as to whether I am medically fit to have a firearm or shotgun cert.  Again it is basic that just jumped on the bandwagon to make a quick buck out of shooters and not pushing back this nonsense.   Just another hoop to jump through. 

Edit. The last time we had an feo visit our club he did mention 2 different outfits that did doc certs but I can't remember who they were.   Again just companies making money out of the situation.  When my cert was done I was sent a copy and another one was sent direct to the firearms depth.  The copy that I had looked like the person who had filled no scribbled on it was just tick tick tick between other patients .  I'd  never even been seen by the person who was supposed to have signed it.  I think that my medical practice has about 10 doctors and I only know about 2 of them.

A GP doesn’t sign anything to state you are ‘medically fit’. Firstly they aren’t qualified, and secondly all they are doing is stating that there is nothing in your medical history which renders you unsuitable to own firearms, nor differs from anything you may have or may not have declared on your application. 

[steve_b_wales]

5 years ago, when I was applying to renew my FAC/Shotgun certificates, my GP stated that 'she wants nothing to do with firearms', so I was put in touch with a GP via BASC. I sent him my medical records and the Pro Forma form. He signed it and sent it back to me together with the medical records. It was then forwarded to the police with my application form. The GP charged me £25 instead of the £50 that he originally quoted. 

Edited Wednesday at 02:05 by steve_b_wales

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I don't think that is quite right

BASC absolutely did tell people renewing ect not to bother with the pro forma, then rapidly backtracked when they realised this didn't work.

It caused chaos for some.

[Red carp]

8 hours ago, steve_b_wales said:

5 years ago, when I was applying to renew my FAC/Shotgun certificates, my GP stated that 'she wants nothing to do with firearms', so I was put in touch with a GP via BASC. I sent him my medical records and the Pro Forma form. He signed it and sent it back to me together with the medical records. It was then forwarded to the police with my application form. The GP charged me £25 instead of the £50 that he originally quoted. 

If you’re doctor will not have anything to do with firearms your hands are tied just go with BASC recommendation 

[rbrowning2]

They used to charge £50 and did BASC members not get a discount? so now £75 plus VAT wait until the certificate fees are £400 or more the GP reports will also increase a lot.   Try your own GP first.

[steve_b_wales]

7 hours ago, Red carp said:

If you’re doctor will not have anything to do with firearms your hands are tied just go with BASC recommendation 

That's what I'm doing, and have just completed the online details for Shoot Cert (£90) 

Edited Wednesday at 14:22 by steve_b_wales

[eggy74]

13 hours ago, Minky said:

So . A bloke that I was speaking with the other day said that he'd paid£25 for his doc ticket.  I think that I paid about £50 last time.  SO  who is the cheapest. Certainly not £75 + VAT.  I  can't get my head around how some stranger who has never met me or spoken to me can write out any sort of medical  report as to whether I am medically fit to have a firearm or shotgun cert.  Again it is basic that just jumped on the bandwagon to make a quick buck out of shooters and not pushing back this nonsense.   Just another hoop to jump through. 

Edit. The last time we had an feo visit our club he did mention 2 different outfits that did doc certs but I can't remember who they were.   Again just companies making money out of the situation.  When my cert was done I was sent a copy and another one was sent direct to the firearms depth.  The copy that I had looked like the person who had filled no scribbled on it was just tick tick tick between other patients .  I'd  never even been seen by the person who was supposed to have signed it.  I think that my medical practice has about 10 doctors and I only know about 2 of them.

My Dr wanted £185 

[Conor O'Gorman]

12 hours ago, Rewulf said:

BASC absolutely did tell people renewing ect not to bother with the pro forma, then rapidly backtracked when they realised this didn't work.

It caused chaos for some.

Below are the BASC updates from June 2016 and again in September 2016. And things kept changing thereafter as regards GP involvement in firearms licensing when police forces brought in their own procedures outwith the guidance in 2018 onwards I think, and then the guidance was updated. The situation continues to develop.

June 2016 - BASC says don’t pay medical fee

BASC has said that those applying for and renewing shotgun or firearm certificates should not pay any fee demanded by their general practitioner for conforming to the guidance issued by the government.

Under the guidance the general practitioner is required to check the applicant’s medical record and inform the licensing authority of any medical facts that may be relevant to the grant or renewal of a certificate. Doctors are not required to give an opinion on the suitability of the applicant for a certificate. Doctors should also place an encoded reminder on their patients’ medical records. A fee only becomes justified if the licensing authority require further medical involvement beyond the initial response. 

The government, police, shooting organisations and medical representatives from the BMA, Royal College of General Practitioners and General Medical Council agreed this system in a Home Office working group which produced the guidance on medical involvement in firearms licensing. BASC is disappointed that some doctors are now demanding payment for a matter that affects public safety and in opposition to the agreement reached by the BMA.

BASC advises applicants to refuse to pay any fee demanded. Should the doctor refuse to participate without money, the guidance states that after 21 days, if there is no response from the doctor, it will be assumed that there are no medical issues.

Paul Dale, BASC Firearms Officer said: “ After all the work that the representatives of all interests put into the agreement on medical involvement I am deeply disappointed that some doctors see the process as yet another chance to make money. Public safety should mean more to them than a fee.”

Peter Glenser, Chairman of BASC and a barrister practising in firearms law said: “The whole thrust of developing law on firearms guidance is that it is not an optional extra. That applies to doctors as much as the police. Applicants for certificates should refuse to comply.”

September 2016 - Update provides clarity on GP fees

Doctors should not claim payment for initial contact by police over shotgun or firearms applications 

New procedures have been introduced for how police and GPs in England and Wales share information about people who apply for shotgun or firearms licences.

With immediate effect, the police will contact an applicant’s doctor to request medical information as soon as an application is received, rather than once a certificate has been issued.

BASC is continuing to advise members not to pay fees requested by GPs for responding to this initial police contact. Police will no longer send GPs a form to complete and return about an applicant's medical history.

Such fees should only become payable by the applicant if police subsequently request further medical information as a result of the applicant declaring a relevant medical condition, or if the GP indicates they have concerns relating to a relevant medical condition.

Paul Dale, a member of BASC’s firearms team who has led on this issue for the association, said: “These are welcome changes and should improve the service being offered to applicants.

“GPs now have clear guidance that if they do not respond to the initial police letter within 21 days it will be assumed they have no relevant information and therefore the application will be granted.”

 

 

[mellors]

39 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Below are the BASC updates from June 2016 and again in September 2016. And things kept changing thereafter as regards GP involvement in firearms licensing when police forces brought in their own procedures outwith the guidance in 2018 onwards I think, and then the guidance was updated. The situation continues to develop.

June 2016 - BASC says don’t pay medical fee

BASC has said that those applying for and renewing shotgun or firearm certificates should not pay any fee demanded by their general practitioner for conforming to the guidance issued by the government.

Under the guidance the general practitioner is required to check the applicant’s medical record and inform the licensing authority of any medical facts that may be relevant to the grant or renewal of a certificate. Doctors are not required to give an opinion on the suitability of the applicant for a certificate. Doctors should also place an encoded reminder on their patients’ medical records. A fee only becomes justified if the licensing authority require further medical involvement beyond the initial response. 

The government, police, shooting organisations and medical representatives from the BMA, Royal College of General Practitioners and General Medical Council agreed this system in a Home Office working group which produced the guidance on medical involvement in firearms licensing. BASC is disappointed that some doctors are now demanding payment for a matter that affects public safety and in opposition to the agreement reached by the BMA.

BASC advises applicants to refuse to pay any fee demanded. Should the doctor refuse to participate without money, the guidance states that after 21 days, if there is no response from the doctor, it will be assumed that there are no medical issues.

Paul Dale, BASC Firearms Officer said: “ After all the work that the representatives of all interests put into the agreement on medical involvement I am deeply disappointed that some doctors see the process as yet another chance to make money. Public safety should mean more to them than a fee.”

Peter Glenser, Chairman of BASC and a barrister practising in firearms law said: “The whole thrust of developing law on firearms guidance is that it is not an optional extra. That applies to doctors as much as the police. Applicants for certificates should refuse to comply.”

September 2016 - Update provides clarity on GP fees

Doctors should not claim payment for initial contact by police over shotgun or firearms applications 

New procedures have been introduced for how police and GPs in England and Wales share information about people who apply for shotgun or firearms licences.

With immediate effect, the police will contact an applicant’s doctor to request medical information as soon as an application is received, rather than once a certificate has been issued.

BASC is continuing to advise members not to pay fees requested by GPs for responding to this initial police contact. Police will no longer send GPs a form to complete and return about an applicant's medical history.

Such fees should only become payable by the applicant if police subsequently request further medical information as a result of the applicant declaring a relevant medical condition, or if the GP indicates they have concerns relating to a relevant medical condition.

Paul Dale, a member of BASC’s firearms team who has led on this issue for the association, said: “These are welcome changes and should improve the service being offered to applicants.

“GPs now have clear guidance that if they do not respond to the initial police letter within 21 days it will be assumed they have no relevant information and therefore the application will be granted.”

 

 

So what your saying they send us the medical form now with renewal application form instead, WE then take it to our doctor he says x amount of ££ to fill it in. 

Do we say no and inform firearms we're not paying it unless further information is required. 

Somehow i don't think that will end well. 

Why are you promoting shoot cert if its not required in the first instance.

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:36 by mellors
Extra info

[Conor O'Gorman]

29 minutes ago, mellors said:

So what your saying they send us the medical form now with renewal application form instead, WE then take it to our doctor he says x amount of ££ to fill it in. 

Do we say no and inform firearms we're not paying it unless further information is required. 

Somehow i don't think that will end well. 

Why are you promoting shoot cert if its not required in the first instance.

 

Those extracts are from 2016 with ref to comments by Red carp and Rewulf. The situation is much changed nine years later.

[mellors]

29 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Those extracts are from 2016 with ref to comments by Red carp and Rewulf. The situation is much changed nine years later.

I appreciate that but the situation changing doesn't alter the requirements. 

Other than drs want money and its pushed on to us to pay up or no certificate. 

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

10 minutes ago, mellors said:

I appreciate that but the situation changing doesn't alter the requirements. 

Other than drs want money and its pushed on to us to pay up or no certificate. 

 

Yes, that was a time when there was no expectation of a GP fee, and most GPs now charge a fee and an increasing number refuse to take part - that is where the likes of Shoot Cert come in to help out where either your GP won't take part or wants to charge an exorbitant fee.

https://www.shootcert.co.uk/

 

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Below are the BASC updates from June 2016 and again in September 2016. And things kept changing thereafter as regards GP involvement in firearms licensing when police forces brought in their own procedures outwith the guidance in 2018 onwards I think, and then the guidance was updated. The situation continues to develop.

June 2016 - BASC says don’t pay medical fee

BASC has said that those applying for and renewing shotgun or firearm certificates should not pay any fee demanded by their general practitioner for conforming to the guidance issued by the government.

Under the guidance the general practitioner is required to check the applicant’s medical record and inform the licensing authority of any medical facts that may be relevant to the grant or renewal of a certificate. Doctors are not required to give an opinion on the suitability of the applicant for a certificate. Doctors should also place an encoded reminder on their patients’ medical records. A fee only becomes justified if the licensing authority require further medical involvement beyond the initial response. 

The government, police, shooting organisations and medical representatives from the BMA, Royal College of General Practitioners and General Medical Council agreed this system in a Home Office working group which produced the guidance on medical involvement in firearms licensing. BASC is disappointed that some doctors are now demanding payment for a matter that affects public safety and in opposition to the agreement reached by the BMA.

BASC advises applicants to refuse to pay any fee demanded. Should the doctor refuse to participate without money, the guidance states that after 21 days, if there is no response from the doctor, it will be assumed that there are no medical issues.

Paul Dale, BASC Firearms Officer said: “ After all the work that the representatives of all interests put into the agreement on medical involvement I am deeply disappointed that some doctors see the process as yet another chance to make money. Public safety should mean more to them than a fee.”

Peter Glenser, Chairman of BASC and a barrister practising in firearms law said: “The whole thrust of developing law on firearms guidance is that it is not an optional extra. That applies to doctors as much as the police. Applicants for certificates should refuse to comply.”

September 2016 - Update provides clarity on GP fees

Doctors should not claim payment for initial contact by police over shotgun or firearms applications 

New procedures have been introduced for how police and GPs in England and Wales share information about people who apply for shotgun or firearms licences.

With immediate effect, the police will contact an applicant’s doctor to request medical information as soon as an application is received, rather than once a certificate has been issued.

BASC is continuing to advise members not to pay fees requested by GPs for responding to this initial police contact. Police will no longer send GPs a form to complete and return about an applicant's medical history.

Such fees should only become payable by the applicant if police subsequently request further medical information as a result of the applicant declaring a relevant medical condition, or if the GP indicates they have concerns relating to a relevant medical condition.

Paul Dale, a member of BASC’s firearms team who has led on this issue for the association, said: “These are welcome changes and should improve the service being offered to applicants.

“GPs now have clear guidance that if they do not respond to the initial police letter within 21 days it will be assumed they have no relevant information and therefore the application will be granted.”

 

 

Thank you for your honesty and clarity Conor, it certainly doesnt negate what I said does it ?

If you somehow believe it does, I would point out that NOT paying for the pro forma (if payment is requested) meant that your grant/renewal did not continue.
This meant that some licence holders did not receive their renewals on time, the result was the 'chaos' that I mentioned.

Do you concede that the BASC advice to not participate with the pro forma system was not good advice ?

The steadily falling numbers of licence holders since 2016 is testament to the effect of the pro forma system, and the incoming licence fee increases will further diminish the number, along with the future lead ban.
Shooting, and private firearm ownership in the UK is under attack from many sides, I would rather ALL shooting orgs get their collective heads together and form a strategy to fight this, rather than remain apathetic, and not complain that this is some kind of paranoid delusion.

[Minky]

 

this should never have developed into this situation.  The last time I renewed my co terminus cert the Feo that came out to visit me was quite clear about the situation.  He said to me that they send out the renewal notice 12 weeks before the actual renewal date.  He then said that I had to get it in to them 8 weeks in advance.  IF I DIDN'T DO THIS THEN THERE WAS A SITUATION WHERE I DIDN'T SHOW THE NEED FOR A CERT.!!! The next thing that he said was that if this condition wasn't adhered to then there was a high probability that my cert wouldn't be issued until.??? whenever and that I would be in illegal position of weapons and that I would have to lodge them with an RFD which would cost a lot.  Until they got round to issuing the relevant certs.  That's Kent police for you.

Edit.  If things go on the way that they have there won't be any shooters at all.  Holts auctions have about 5000 guns going through the auctions a MONTH.!!  mostly being exported to the states.  Only the week before Christmas I bought the AyA #4 from a person who clears weapons.  He said that he has just had 800 weapons dropped off with him to CHOP UP.  The value of guns has fallen through the floor because of the declining use of guns.  anyone only has to look at how many guns there are for sale on here against even an enquiry.  The asking price that people promote is ridiculous in relation to what the sale value is.  we've been sold down the river.  Lambs to the slaughter.

Edited Wednesday at 15:26 by Minky

[Rim Fire]

A medical certificate is now a mandatory requirement for all shotgun or firearms applications, whether this is for a first-time grant or a renewal.

 

Certificate renewals - Firearms - BASC

BASC

https://basc.org.uk › Firearms