HeadShotHoncho Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 I think that the antis are getting on everyones nerves but everytime we break the law we give them the equivalent of a truck full of ammo (by the way i think we need to get some ammo ourselves cos i've been hearing reports of anti's slashing tyres but we need proof to put in the papers cos we are getting a raw deal on this) . Everytime they get hold of the slightest bit of ammo they dig their teeth in and use it for months. If all the pigeon shot were hitting the field then i don't have a problem but loose feeding a field is not in the general license and not right, this was also done by a shooting magazine that are meant to be well informed on the law, ambassadors of shooting and helpful. I use gun mart to warn me of any updates to the law but god, on't anyone take any tips from Sporting Gun on legislation or law. Kill the ones that are on the field feeding, don't loose feed and don't take pics and put them in a mag cos magazines are not exclusive to shooters and like this forum is open. If Sporting Gun keep on doing that then they will become a gold mine of ammo for the anti's Carry on shooting but listen to FM! HSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I don't put that many pictures on here compared to the amount of days I go out and shoot something however most of the time I will do a write up after a days ferreting and there will be dead things visible in there. These posts are generally well recieved. At the end of the day the way I see it is I have nothing at all to hide about what I get up to legally and I'm not really that bothered if I annoy a few bunny huggers along the way. Although one could argue that my pictures could turn people against ferreting, if they are on a hunting forum looking at my posts then the chances are they are already rabidly anti or pro-hunt anyway. If people don't like it, fine. However I'm not stopping for anyone and am proud of what I do. You see a fair bit of hunting on TV these days including ferreting and if this is acceptable to show then I don't see why some pictures of some boys and girls enjoying a days ferreting should be frowned apon. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 "We have a simple choice under the present EU and UK law. Have a general licence with its restrictions or put wood pigeons on the game\wildfowl list and have a closed season for them. Under EU law we cant go back to the old free for all system for pest species. However there may be room for tweaking the EU rules on pest species a little. " Yet another reason to come out of the EU then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Yet another reason to come out of the EU then. Definitely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 In no way would my friends and relations consider me to be politically correct, pretty much the opposite in truth. But, I do throughly agree with Fisherman Mike's comments. The anti mob must really love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cushat Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Just read this thread and FM's comments really got me thinking. I've always disliked seeing large bags in magazines as I don't think the image of a couple of scruffy ***ed pigeon shooters fully clad in camo (and I include myself firmly in this description!), holding shotguns and standing behind 200 pigeons does us any favours with the public. It is unfortunately seen by some as dressing up and "playing armies" and by others as excessive slaughter. However, what I particularly hate is seeing photos of large heaps of pigeons/game which haven't been laid out and haven't been shown any respect. But what I really started thinking about was the fact I've posted photos on this website before. I've always enjoyed reading descriptions and looking at photos of others days out on here, so have posted descriptions and photos myself. But is this being hypocritical? Is posting images on a forum any different publishing them in magazines? I guess I've always seen this forum as being less accessible to the general public than large publications like Sporting Gun or Shooting Times but I think the opposite is probably the case. Just about everyone has access to the internet and this site is easily found with a quick Google (first hit for "Pigeon Shooting"). Yes, you've got to go looking to find the place, but then you've got to go looking to get hold of a copy of Sporting Gun. Off to muse over where I stand on this one - I don't see anything wrong with sharing photos/experiences amongst like minded individuals, but I'm not keen on portraying the wrong image to the general public. Is it possible to do one without the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Off to muse over where I stand on this one - I don't see anything wrong with sharing photos/experiences amongst like minded individuals, but I'm not keen on portraying the wrong image to the general public. Is it possible to do one without the other? The photo and video sections of our forum locked to non members , so should not be seen by the genral public, as it is in magazines etc which can easily be picked up in any news agent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cushat Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 The photo and video sections of our forum locked to non members , so should not be seen by the genral public, as it is in magazines etc which can easily be picked up in any news agent I never knew that! Problem solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skb 557 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Hi i totaly agree with FM and it seems like most do and i would love to live my life by only shoot what you need to eat, but i also know alot of folks would loose their permission if they treid this approch and i have a personal oppinion on wether you should break your own morals for some thing you enjoy,, Very soon i start a collage course on game and wildlife management and when its done i hope to move out of the **** hole i live in and would love to start keepering some were and im aware if i do make it as a game keeper id have to do things i didnt agree with and this makes me wonder if game mamagement is for me,, but i am aware of the diferance between doing your job and protecting some familys livelyhood and repaceing your penis with shootind 100s of birds just for fun it is these folk who give our sport the bad reputation its got and it really is unjust as nearly every one ive met in regards to shooting sports has been a wonderfull person with far more respect for wildlife than any idiot who buys there rubbish meat from the super crime markets i met one bloke who told me that he alone shooys over 1000 rabbits a year and has never eventryed to eat a single one,, i walked away then and there as i dont have my fac as yet and didnt want to geperdise it by doing some thing i have no right to do but to top it of i was takeing my wheelchair bound mum around one of these super crime markets''and yes i do like the cookes and the cheese solection '' but i hate myself for it.. Anyway ive strayed so far from my point that i cant rember it so ill leave it here in the hope ive said something usefull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatingisbest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Hi i totaly agree with FM and it seems like most do and i would love to live my life by only shoot what you need to eat, but i also know alot of folks would loose their permission if they treid this approch and i have a personal oppinion on wether you should break your own morals for some thing you enjoy,, Very soon i start a collage course on game and wildlife management and when its done i hope to move out of the **** hole i live in and would love to start keepering some were and im aware if i do make it as a game keeper id have to do things i didnt agree with and this makes me wonder if game mamagement is for me,, but i am aware of the diferance between doing your job and protecting some familys livelyhood and repaceing your penis with shootind 100s of birds just for fun it is these folk who give our sport the bad reputation its got and it really is unjust as nearly every one ive met in regards to shooting sports has been a wonderfull person with far more respect for wildlife than any idiot who buys there rubbish meat from the super crime markets i met one bloke who told me that he alone shooys over 1000 rabbits a year and has never eventryed to eat a single one,, i walked away then and there as i dont have my fac as yet and didnt want to geperdise it by doing some thing i have no right to do but to top it of i was takeing my wheelchair bound mum around one of these super crime markets''and yes i do like the cookes and the cheese solection '' but i hate myself for it.. Anyway ive strayed so far from my point that i cant rember it so ill leave it here in the hope ive said something usefull From just that i can tell that you dont know much about gamekeeping. If you do become a gamekeeper and you only shoot/trap vermin for your own stomach, you are not going to last long as a keeper i can tell you that for nothing, and at the end of the day shooting 100's of birds for sport (and to take them to gamedealers) is the entire point in a job as a gamekeeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjw Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 please dont give the anti,s more ammunition by saying that pigeon shooting is a sport it is not a sport its CROP PROTECTION/VERMIN CONTROL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatingisbest Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 please dont give the anti,s more ammunition by saying that pigeon shooting is a sport it is not a sport its CROP PROTECTION/VERMIN CONTROL When i say "100's of BIRDS" i mean pheasant/partridge/grouse not pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 This may seem stretching it a bit far.... but i recall the EU gives member states 2 areas for autonomy. They are national security and food. If an agricultural pest threatens food can't the UK government operate within UK law separate to and EU law but also compliant with what is known as subsidiarity? Or am I out of date on this one and one of our great leaders signed this away our rights of subsidiarity? Malk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) I also agree that photo's of large bags are a bad idea, i personally enjoy my shooting but when it came to the fox hounds to be honest i was glad to see it go, i am by no means up to speed on every fox hound thing but i did think the video footage of hounds tearing the foxes to bits was unnessacary and did no favours, i believe if you are going to shoot something the most important bit is a clean kill with no suffering, and i hate to see pictures of foxes/Rabbits shot anywhere but the head as i believe this is a sure fire instantaneous kill. Just my t'pence.... Edited April 4, 2008 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 ........hounds tearing the foxes to bits was unnessacary and did no favours,.........most important bit is a clean kill with no suffering............Just my t'pence.... The hounds tearing the fox apart were doing what comes naturally to a DEAD fox, as the lead hound(s) will kill almost instantaneously. Lets face facts no-one who shoots on a regular basis ever kills 100% instantaneously. My 2p`s too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) Gixer1 , While i have little time for the people who fox hunt mainly due to their attutde to other countryside people I must say it is probably the quickest way to kill a fox. Once the hounds catch it its dead in seconds. You do not get wounded foxes getting away with the hunt , indeed you often used to get foxes that have been wounded or hit by cars caught by the hounds. You can never say that with shooting. None of us is a perfect shot and while we strive to be as humain as possible , a small percentage of the birds\animals we hit will go away wounded even with the best of shots. Next time you have a big day at the pigeons work your dog araound the surrounding hedgerows and woods and you will be surprised how many birds you will pick up. Edited April 4, 2008 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 As I said I am no expert, but if I had a choice of being shot or torn apart by a pack of hounds I know what i'd choose, I understand what you mean when you say it is dead in seconds but it does seem a tad brutal, I also understand the point about "very few people get 100% kill all the time with shots" but I certainly am very particular in choosing shots that I am confident I can make cleanly and I always keep a bead/sight on my target after firing to ensure I know what state the target is in, I have recently bought a new .22LR and I spent a day and 150 rounds firing at various paper/wood targets in various conditions to ensure I was aware of A) how accurate I was with the rifle and what effect the rifle was doing to the targets at various ranges, and with all live quarry I have shot at I can happily say it has been straight kill, I am of the opinion that even if i do not see any movement from the target I always fire a second shot to ensure the target is properly dispatched. I realise the hounds reaction is a natural one, but anyone who has watched a Lion taking down antelope will tell you it is 90% of the time not an "instataneous" kill, as usually it is a "tug of war" between the predatory animal or a throat bite to suffocate which can take minutes. On the other hand anyone who has seen a head shot fox with a .243/.22 supersonic would find it hard to argue the speed and effect of this method of kill, my personal opinion with live quarry is you should always strive to achieve a "head shot" not plug away at whatever part you can... Another part of field craft in my opinion is to have a good understanding of the anatomy of the animal you intend to shoot (as with Deer stalking up here in Scotland where you must pass an exam) it makes a big difference to the way you shoot if you know exactly when to shoot at. A lot of people on this very forum claim "1" groupings with a rifle at 100 yards" yet post the pictures of there bags only to show a large number of gut/rump shot rabbits or foxes....if you are capable of a 1"grouping with your rifle why not take the headshot? Horse and hound hunting is something I find will never be agreeable to me due to a)the attitude I also find some members of the equestrian community have and the snobbery that seems to surround it. Regards, Garry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country Boy Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 I wonder how many pigeons shot at, fly on giving the impression the shooter has missed completely, but in fact have been pricked. Hundreds I assume, some may continue to fly miles then die in flight, others will make it a mile or two to a tree then drop dead or die very slowly. Woodpigeons can be difficult targets and some shooters will never achieve either the ability or experience to make a clean kill. This said on the assumption that NOT everyone can lay bricks. Skill with a gun comes naturally to only a small proportion of people and learning any skill is a lengthy process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Gixer1, Have you ever ridden to the hunt? NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Gixer1, Have you ever ridden to the hunt? NTTF Or seen a fox with it,s jaw blown off because it moved it,s head at the time of the shot? The chest of a fox is a larger target with more vital organs than the head...you,ve still got a lot to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 A lot to learn? your opinion and you are entitled to it but (I guess you're limited knowledge of my experience you may come to a vague conclusion a lot of persons on here assume that experience is based on the amount of posts on a web forum )....there is nothing unacceptable with a headshot for a fox...and as for it moving it's head..I usually wait for a static target that has settled, and by the time you hear the noise the round has usually hit the target with a 243 so unlikely the fox will move it's head that fast between pulling the trigger and impact...so you may have a thing or too to learn yourself in my opinion. and have I ridden to a hunt? nope....until you can show me where the keys to a horse go I won't be using one for transport! Garry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 How about followed the Hunt on foot or by car? NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 (edited) A lot to learn? your opinion and you are entitled to it but (I guess you're limited knowledge of my experience you may come to a vague conclusion a lot of persons on here assume that experience is based on the amount of posts on a web forum )....there is nothing unacceptable with a headshot for a fox...and as for it moving it's head..I usually wait for a static target that has settled, and by the time you hear the noise the round has usually hit the target with a 243 so unlikely the fox will move it's head that fast between pulling the trigger and impact...so you may have a thing or too to learn yourself in my opinion. and have I ridden to a hunt? nope....until you can show me where the keys to a horse go I won't be using one for transport! Garry. "On the other hand anyone who has seen a head shot fox with a .243/.22 supersonic would find it hard to argue the speed and effect of this method of kill, my personal opinion with live quarry is you should always strive to achieve a "head shot" not plug away at whatever part you can..." Maybe you can explain to us mere mortals exactly what a 243/22 supersonic round is? And if you can guarantee a head shot on a fox at 300 yards, then I think everyone on this forum can learn something from you. I have to agree with grashopper, you have a lot to learn. Edited April 7, 2008 by bob300w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 (edited) 243 OR a .22......and if you were to go onto you tube you will find numerous clips of people getting a 2" group at 300yards with various calibers. And at what point in any post did I say "I can guarantee a head shot at 300 yards" I select my shots on my own abilities. Garry. Edited April 7, 2008 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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