Guest rabgoat Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 (edited) Friday night I took a shot at a fox,It was 80yds away side on,I placed a shot with the CZ17hmr just behind the shoulder,The fox went down then jumped up and limped away,The ammo was Winchester vmax,I reckon the round has clipped the shoulder and and broke up on impact not getting inside to do any fatal damage..I think i'll use 20grs or TNT from now on with the foxs,the 20 grs/tnt would i think go rite through the bone and still do damage inside..Obviously im not to pleased with myself ,i've went back the last two days scanning around for any signs but couldn't find anything not even any blood about.Im gonna go back for a while at the same times and hopefully it will show again maybe put the trail camera up somewhere ,on the positive i seen two hares in the same field that night,never seen any here before they seem to be making a come back,would love to see more about.. Edited June 15, 2008 by rabgoat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 run offs are`nt nice rabgoat. i hit a squirrel with fac air the other evening and i swear the pellet went clean through.the little ****** took off into the nettles.he was bleeding profusely but i could nt find him.i hit him in the chest area so i know he did`nt last long.i`ve shot quite a few squirrels but this one did`nt give up easy.not nice i always like the instant switch off.i don`t think anyone can guarantee a clean kill every time. we just do our best to ensure it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 One thing I really recommend is chambering a round as soon as you fire when you are out foxing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 Hm. we all know that plod wont sanction 17HMR for fox. We also know that many on this forum seemingly regularly kill foxes with 17HMR. My instinct is that you have unfortunatley exceeded the effective range for the ammo on a fox. It can be difficult to estimate range. Personally I wouldnt have made the shot at 80yds on a fox, but thats me. Hopefully its a lesson learned. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 It will have happened to all of us who go foxing, whether we admit it or not. These type wounds are why I often say to only take brain shots on foxes with rimfires I am not critizing you Rab, for two reasons, I imagine you feel **** enough as it is and I've been there myself with the .22lr. I'm offering advice. I think you're doing the right thing switching rounds, TNT are a bit heavier and hollow point aren't they? I don't know if you were out after rabbits and saw a fox or out after foxes but I don't reccomend rimfires for going after foxes especially. They don't have the grunt to be as forgiving as as centrefire. Don't know what else to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 Hm. we all know that plod wont sanction 17HMR for fox. We also know that many on this forum seemingly regularly kill foxes with 17HMR. My instinct is that you have unfortunatley exceeded the effective range for the ammo on a fox. It can be difficult to estimate range. Personally I wouldnt have made the shot at 80yds on a fox, but thats me. Hopefully its a lesson learned. webber Not exactly true as i have 17hmr for fox and vermin on my ticket ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rabgoat Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 I dropped a fox in the same field at around 80yds a while back,then i used 20gr ammo it dropped on the spot no problem bleeding very badly.The distance was zapped with a leupold rangefinder so im pretty confident of the distance.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rabgoat Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 It will have happened to all of us who go foxing, whether we admit it or not. These type wounds are why I often say to only take brain shots on foxes with rimfires I am not critizing you Rab, for two reasons, I imagine you feel **** enough as it is and I've been there myself with the .22lr. I'm offering advice. I think you're doing the right thing switching rounds, TNT are a bit heavier and hollow point aren't they? I don't know if you were out after rabbits and saw a fox or out after foxes but I don't reccomend rimfires for going after foxes especially. They don't have the grunt to be as forgiving as as centrefire. Don't know what else to say. I was out targeting foxs,I have killed them before with the vmax round but not at that distance,the tnt are 17gr as well with a hollw point but they do punch on through a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stiv24 Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Hm. we all know that plod wont sanction 17HMR for fox. We also know that many on this forum seemingly regularly kill foxes with 17HMR. My instinct is that you have unfortunatley exceeded the effective range for the ammo on a fox. It can be difficult to estimate range. Personally I wouldnt have made the shot at 80yds on a fox, but thats me. Hopefully its a lesson learned. webber Not exactly true as i have 17hmr for fox and vermin on my ticket ! and me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Hm. we all know that plod wont sanction 17HMR for fox. We also know that many on this forum seemingly regularly kill foxes with 17HMR. My instinct is that you have unfortunatley exceeded the effective range for the ammo on a fox. It can be difficult to estimate range. Personally I wouldnt have made the shot at 80yds on a fox, but thats me. Hopefully its a lesson learned. webber Not exactly true as i have 17hmr for fox and vermin on my ticket ! and me.... Thats interesting. Would it be possible for you to post up the precise wording of the particular statement. Useful ammo when the FEO comes to call in the future. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 (edited) Mine states - The .22 rifle with sound mod, .17 rifle with sound mod, .243 rifle with sound mod and .22, .17 and .243 ammunition shall be used for the shooting of vermin and for zeroing on ranges, or land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. The only other bit on my cert is nearly the same as above but states .243 for deer. So can I not shoot (legally) foxes with any of my rifles? or can I shoot foxes with my .22 and rats with my .243 if I want? Edited June 16, 2008 by markm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 In NI typical hmr grant is for "vermin control and sporting purposes", in addition to use on targets. I take this to include fox as I believe it does, whether under vermin control, or sporting purposes if as many believe it is labeled as a small mammal. Good to see that the hares are making a comeback. No doubt you've checked your rifle and it is shooting spot on, I've seen foxes run from big rifles even when bowled over with reasonable shots. Make sure the 20grain have the same zero as the 17 grain ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 In NI typical hmr grant is for "vermin control and sporting purposes", in addition to use on targets. I take this to include fox as I believe it does, whether under vermin control, or sporting purposes if as many believe it is labeled as a small mammal. Good to see that the hares are making a comeback. No doubt you've checked your rifle and it is shooting spot on, I've seen foxes run from big rifles even when bowled over with reasonable shots. Make sure the 20grain have the same zero as the 17 grain ones. herts have written on my mates vermin including fox and on chats with the FEO he classes foxes as vermin. Personally speaking though you say it go you just don't know how far it went. I've seen lots run after shooting with shotguns on game days that have gone up to 100 yards and then dropped stone dead. At the moment there is a lot of cover about so its difficult to find an animal that has run. However to make you feel better ask the deer boys about animals running after being shot and its a regular occurence even with a spot on shot. I've shot a few foxes with my HMR without having a runner so far but it no doubt will happen just depends if you have a dog with you how easy it is to follow up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Slightly off-topic, but interesting nevertheless, if you have deer on your ticket, you can apply for the conditions to include foxes, ground game and pest species and it will be granted automatically. It would appear also, that some police areas include fox as vermin, others don't, if in doubt, check with your HQ. http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/258211/De...for_vermin.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rabgoat Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Good to see that the hares are making a comeback. No doubt you've checked your rifle and it is shooting spot on, I've seen foxes run from big rifles even when bowled over with reasonable shots. Make sure the 20grain have the same zero as the 17 grain ones. herts have written on my mates vermin including fox and on chats with the FEO he classes foxes as vermin. Personally speaking though you say it go you just don't know how far it went. I've seen lots run after shooting with shotguns on game days that have gone up to 100 yards and then dropped stone dead. At the moment there is a lot of cover about so its difficult to find an animal that has run. However to make you feel better ask the deer boys about animals running after being shot and its a regular occurence even with a spot on shot. I've shot a few foxes with my HMR without having a runner so far but it no doubt will happen just depends if you have a dog with you how easy it is to follow up Teal,, Im really pleased to see a few hares about,taking out a few fox's will help them survive as well,I checked the rifle yesterday and it is shooting fine,zeroing yesterday i used vmax/tnt/and 20grs surprisingly out of my CZ there isn't really much difference,when i first got the gun a mate came out with me who has had rifles for a few years and he couldn't believe how well the rifle fired the different types of ammo,he has an Anschutz(I THINK) in 17hmr and mine was a lot better...al4x,,,I searched for 300yds in the direction it headed and not a sign of anything,I looked in every hole in the hedges for drops of blood,,what ammo do you use with your 17hmr ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Thats interesting. Would it be possible for you to post up the precise wording of the particular statement. Useful ammo when the FEO comes to call in the future. webber Sounds like you're under one of the forces that don't allow it buddy. It's up to the chief, and I doubt anything's going to change his mind. Mine states something like "the firearms shall be used for vermin (.22), Vermin and Fox (.17hmr), vermin, fox and CWD/Muntjac (.223), Fox and Deer (6.5x55) I can't remeber exactly, and it's in the post for adjustment right now so I can't look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Hi all mine from Kent says quote, ".17HMR rifle .17 sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting FOX & VERMIN and for zeroing on ranges,or land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot" This includes .22 and .223 calibres. The caps are as appear on the cert. D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 police are supposed to work to these guidelines? I was refused fox on my HMR only mention of fox on my ticket is on my .243 cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 police are supposed to work to these guidelines? I was refused fox on my HMR only mention of fox on my ticket is on my .243cheers KW Unfortunately this list only includes the more popular cals, and does not mention .17hmr, i think many feo's get confused between .17rem and .17hmr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) I think some FEOs are just more forgiving than others. Mine has openly stated that HMR is a poor choice for Fox, but has allowed me to use common sense and use it in areas I feel are unfit for centre fire use. I have to say that even with the problems I've had with them in the past, they seem like one of the better forces to be under. In some situations the guidelines are clearly wrong! They once told me about granting an old lady with a smallholding a .22lr for Fox. She wanted to shoot the foxes that were pinching her chickens. They decided that as she would be shooting maybe once a month out of her bedroom window at very close range, .22lr would be fine. As the guidelines are set she should have a .22 hornet or .17rem, but how silly would that be! A 70 year old woman with little firearms knowledge doesn't need to be letting a centrefire go at 4am to get the job done, so they used common sense. It's a shame more forces don't have it Edited June 18, 2008 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretman Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 my dad shoots foxes with his hmr and his .223 i am getting a hmr for foxers.all the best . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'm on federal Vmax's, have to say I doubt it got that far there is so much cover about that its very easy for them to lay low and you'll probably find it if you walk that area a bit over the next few weeks. I know on game days when obviously the fields have been cut that I've seen them run after being hit nearly out of eye sight then drop dead. last year we had one I looked for for ages finally found it from the smell a fortnight later tucked in the base of a hedge just past where I'd been looking. Its unlucky but as Tulks showed it happens to the centre fire boys as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Hm. we all know that plod wont sanction 17HMR for fox. We also know that many on this forum seemingly regularly kill foxes with 17HMR. My instinct is that you have unfortunatley exceeded the effective range for the ammo on a fox. It can be difficult to estimate range. Personally I wouldnt have made the shot at 80yds on a fox, but thats me. Hopefully its a lesson learned. webber Not exactly true as i have 17hmr for fox and vermin on my ticket ! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 police are supposed to work to these guidelines? I was refused fox on my HMR only mention of fox on my ticket is on my .243cheers KW I have the same force as kdubya and they gave me fox on my HMR a few weeks after he was refused..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rabgoat Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'm on federal Vmax's, have to say I doubt it got that far there is so much cover about that its very easy for them to lay low and you'll probably find it if you walk that area a bit over the next few weeks. I know on game days when obviously the fields have been cut that I've seen them run after being hit nearly out of eye sight then drop dead. last year we had one I looked for for ages finally found it from the smell a fortnight later tucked in the base of a hedge just past where I'd been looking. Its unlucky but as Tulks showed it happens to the centre fire boys as well I've killed three with the Federal vshok,on the fox that did a runner i used Winchester vmax and i'm wondering maybe the Winchester didn't fragment like the Federals ,cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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