viking Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 he sounds like a trigger-happy cruel scumbag to me...if he did that to one of my dogs I would shove a red hot poker where the sun dont shine! one shot would have the done job...if he really had to shoot at all... but to break legs, then more than one shot is just cruel...dont let him get away with it...probably got a small you-know-what as well! to kill someones dog for a few chickens or sheep is sick...they are just livestock...just food..dogs are a companion and should be given a bit more respect than just to be treated as foxes etc. i have bantams and chickens if i caught a dog killing them theres no way on this earth i would shoot it even if it killed em all. dont know you but feel sorry for you i got black lab dont know what i would do if someone shot him loose it probley. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Have a read of this, it may help. webber Gundogs Code of Practice Home > Magazines > Codes of Practice > Gundogs Code of Practice The BASC strongly recommends that anyone who goes shooting should be accompanied by a trained and competent gundog. Using a well trained gundog ensures that everything possible has been done for the humane recovery of the quarry and shows a responsible attitude. Furthermore, the ownership and delight in working a well trained gundog is an enjoyable pastime in itself. Some basic points of the law In Scotland and Northern Ireland those using their dogs for picking up fallen game require a game licence (the game licence in England and Wales was abolished in August 2007). All dogs (including gundogs) must, in public places, wear a collar marked with the owner's name and address except where the dog is being used for sporting purposes at the time. Dogs must be kept on a lead when on a designated road except where the dog is being used for sporting purposes at the time. It is an offence to have any dog dangerously out of control in a public place. Gundogs must not be sent to retrieve game that has fallen beyond a shoot boundary without the prior consent of the adjoining landowner. To do so constitutes civil trespass. Owners and handlers of dogs commit an offence if their dogs worry livestock on agricultural land. Owners and handlers of dogs similarly commit an offence if their dogs are not under close control in a sheep enclosure (even if not worrying the sheep) except where the dog is being used for sporting purposes at the time. The control of dogs Dogs not under the close control of their owners on agri-cultural land may be shot by the landowner or occupier (or his servant) if they are, or have been worrying livestock, and there is no other reasonable means of ending or preventing the worrying. If a dog kills or injures livestock, the keeper (owner or person in possession) is liable for damages to the livestock owner. Dogs at home Ensure that a new puppy is vaccinated to protect it against distemper, hepatitis, parvo virus, leptospirosis and tetanus. Ensure that your dog receives an annual booster for parvo virus and leptospirosis and every other year for distemper, hepatitis, and tetanus. Ensure that your dog is wormed regularly (as recommended by medication) to control roundworms and tapeworms. This is particularly important if young children are around. Ensure that an infestation of lice, fleas, ticks or ear mites is treated promptly. Remember to treat bedding, carpets and furniture used by the dog at the same time. Provide your dog with living quarters that are warm, dry and draught free. Ensure that your dog has clean drinking water available at all times. Feed good quality food appropriate to the dog's age and work regime. Dogs in the car Never leave your dog unattended in a car unless absolutely unavoidable. If you have to do so, leave the dog for the minimum time, park in the shade and ensure adequate ventilation. Never leave a dog unattended in a car on a hot or sunny day. Even with the windows open a car can quickly become an oven. Always carry water and a bowl in the car when transporting your dog. Dogs in the field Always treat game with respect Be confident your dog is under your control before you take him out in the field. An untrained dog is a nuisance and a danger to livestock, other dogs and people. Ensure that your dog will be welcome before taking him to a shoot to which you have been invited. Never take a bitch in season (oestrus) onto a shoot where there will be other dogs. Ensure that your dog is under control when not working, and particularly near roads and around cars. Remove your dog's collar before going into the field to prevent the dog from being caught up on fences, branches etc. Be aware of the whereabouts of your dog and those of others when walking up cover. Be aware of your dog's whereabouts when loading and closing guns, particularly in confined spaces such as a pigeon or duck hide. Check with the keeper where you may pick up and do not let your dog disturb ground which is still to be shot. When sending your dog for a retrieve, ensure that the Guns are aware of his presence. If in doubt do not send your dog until shooting has ceased. Particular care should be taken in poor light conditions such as when flighting at dusk. Never tie a dog to yourself or your equipment. Use a proper dog anchor if necessary. Dogs on the foreshore Try to make your dog comfortable - make sure he has a dry seat. Send your dog to retrieve birds as they are shot. Dogging the tide line will often recover lost birds. At the end of a shoot Check your dog for thorns and cuts and treat them promptly. Carry a first aid kit for your dog in the car and in the field. Ensure your dog has access to water. Dry your dog off before leaving him in the car or driving home. Training Make sure that training sessions are enjoyable for both you and your dog. Formal training will not begin until a puppy is several months old but good manners can be taught from the beginning. Gundog training and obedience classes at local clubs can help you and your dog. The BASC also run a nationwide programme of training days. Mixing with other dogs will help steady and 'socialise' a young dog. Insurance Consider insuring your dog against veterinary fees, accident and illness, accidental death, loss by theft or straying, recovery and legal costs and third party liability. Competitive cover is available through the BASC 'Dog Insurance Scheme'. Consider marking your dog with a tattoo or implanted chip to help recovery if lost or stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Sorry but I seem to be a bit confused here, how did the dogs get out if you locked them in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I am so sorry about the loss of your dog. The gundog code of practice sums it up, I am affriad it looks like, on the evidence presented so far, the land owner was within his rights. There could be an issue with him using the 22.250 I agree, but as the police are already ware of what happened I guess they are not going ot take it further. By all means call our gamekeeping team who are best placed to advise any further, call and ask for Tom or Sarah in gamekeeping - if you can't get hold of them then call me my direct line is 01244 573021. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronster Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 SOME PEOPLE ARE BORN ******** probably had a bad day.....i'm sure on that size of land he could have controlled a small dog and his livestock if he wanted too......in my opinion he took the easy route...THINK I'D HAVE A LITTLE WORD WITH HIM ONE DARK NIGHT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinker Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 why bother with basc go to your firearms dept if they think he is reckless with a firearm he is going to lose his ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 with all due respect mate it is up to you to see your dogs are kept secure. How can you be so heartless. The guy has a dog which has had it's legs broken and been shot with a rifle. I would be straight on the phone to BASC and my solicitor. He can't shoot a dog with his rifle, unless he has it on his ticket. You should also remember that animals have rights too. He could be done for cruelty easily. Make sure you get loads of photos as evidence is key here. Ring the firearms department and tell them, they'll check about the ticket permissions and they can easily pop round and revoke it. Also ring his FEO, it will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 ......the dog could have had it's leg/legs broke AFTER it was dead, you know kind of a "BOOT, dirty so and so, kill my chickens and chase my cows" It dosent matter what size of field it was in, a safe shot with a 22-250 is a safe shot and a dangerous shot with any caliber is a dangerous shot. The fact's are, 1.It would not have been shot if it was in it's kennel. 2.Dead is dead, you cannot bring it back. 3.Farmers/landowners have a right to kill dogs that are worrying livestock.Rightly or wrongly, this is the law. 4.Those who have replyed advokating "a dark night" retrobution are worse than the man who shot the dog. Sorry for the loss of your dog, but improving the security of your kennel(padlock maby?) would be advisable. I know from personal experience that a dog getting shot is hard to take, but again if you or your dog is in the wrong then take it you must!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 How can you be so heartless. The guy has a dog which has had it's legs broken and been shot with a rifle. I would be straight on the phone to BASC and my solicitor. He can't shoot a dog with his rifle, unless he has it on his ticket. You should also remember that animals have rights too. He could be done for cruelty easily. Make sure you get loads of photos as evidence is key here. Ring the firearms department and tell them, they'll check about the ticket permissions and they can easily pop round and revoke it. Also ring his FEO, it will help. what does with all due respect mean mate? heartless? i told the chap i was sorry for his loss did n`t i?being a dog owner myself in the middle of sheep country i know it is my responsibility ti keep my hound locked up.i know for a fact if my farmer neighbour catches it in the field he will let the air out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 He can't shoot a dog with his rifle, unless he has it on his ticket. You should also remember that animals have rights too. Rubbish, do you think any FEO will put dog down on the persons ticket, mine says I may use it to protect other animals. As for the second part, people who own animals also have a responsibility to ensure, as far as reasonably practical, they do not get out and kill someones livestock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigger1 Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 thanx for the replies im not gonna follow the dark night approach im not gonna get into trouble for the sake of some scumbag. as to breaking the legs after she was shot, has anyone ever shot a rabbit or pigeon then started beating the holy **** out of it saying... "damn rabbit, pigeon etc eating all my crops" highly doubtful there is no evidence to support his claim.. plus we have 2 horses that we keep in the field behind our house and the dogs have never shown any interest in chasing them they are more interested in playing amongst themselves?? i,ve spoken to a police officer and he said if you can prove her legs were broken before he shot her then he was breaking the law!! i know its not the point but its not even his livlyhood!! he's a builder. also i wandered if i own a flower nursery and his cows got out and come in would i be allowed to go and break all the cows legs then start shooting then because they trampled o few pansies? regards leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigger1 Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 to replt to dangerzones comment about THE LAW.. a safe shot is a safe shot and a dangerous one is a dangerous one but if i stood on the side of a road and shot a gun into a safe backstop this is a safe shot but still illegal as i wasnt the required distance from a public highway.. safe but illegal!! plus the law is that you can kill a dog if worrying livestock if you have the correct licence and there is no other means of containing it which would be fairly easy on 3/4 of an acre i think.. regards leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 ......the dog could have had it's leg/legs broke AFTER it was dead, you know kind of a "BOOT, dirty so and so, kill my chickens and chase my cows" It dosent matter what size of field it was in, a safe shot with a 22-250 is a safe shot and a dangerous shot with any caliber is a dangerous shot. The fact's are, 1.It would not have been shot if it was in it's kennel. 2.Dead is dead, you cannot bring it back. 3.Farmers/landowners have a right to kill dogs that are worrying livestock.Rightly or wrongly, this is the law. 4.Those who have replyed advokating "a dark night" retrobution are worse than the man who shot the dog. Sorry for the loss of your dog, but improving the security of your kennel(padlock maby?) would be advisable. I know from personal experience that a dog getting shot is hard to take, but again if you or your dog is in the wrong then take it you must!!! I cannot imagine how it must feel to be in your position, but seeking retribution is not necessarily the way to go. Have to say I agree with the above post. Especially points 1 & 4 My tickets says something to the effect of: 'Any guns on this ticket can be used to protect crops and livestock' and I don't even have a farm. So I would imagine that he has something similar. Not to mention that he took the body to the police station, which in my mind shows he is trying to act within the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk101 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I'm not really the trouble seeking type, but 2 be honest, my kids and my DOG r my life, so hurt any of them 4 any reason rightly or wrongly, i will lose it big time!! Sorry 2 all that don't advocate this, but that is just me, i am law abidding in every other way bar them points. oh i guess i better add the wife & family that guy could have let off a couple of shots in the air, tried 2 scare the dog off anything but shoot it! he could even have called the police and the give the bill to the dog owner 4 what ever damage has been done, that's what we have insurance 4! anyway like i said i know what i would have done!!!!!! my heartfelt sympathys to u my friend. regards turk101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snozzer Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I am absolutely shocked that so many people want him to go crying to BASC. BASC is hardly going to win friends and influence people if it takes farmers/smallholders/landowners to task or court for shooting dogs that are causing problems with stock. Next time you are asking for permission and show your BASC insurance imagine the reaction from Farmer Parmer as he laughs at you and says no way that bunch didn't help old Fred in the farm up the road when he shot a dog worrying sheep but took the dogs owners side The fact remains, dog causing a nuisance to stock, shoot first and ask questions later. Once a stock worrier always a stock worrier, if you don't do it today you will only have more dead animals to cope with before you finally do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 ".......my DOG r my life, so hurt any of them 4 any reason rightly or wrongly, i will lose it big time!!" Get a grip, just as well you live in Essex and not in the country!??! I love my dogs as much as any man, but if they worry livestock i'll shoot them myself( as I have done before) for I will have only myself to blame for letting them do so. Dogs are NOT human, they are many things that a human cannot be, but not human. They follow instinct not law. "as to breaking the legs after she was shot, has anyone ever shot a rabbit or pigeon then started beating the holy **** out of it saying... "damn rabbit, pigeon etc eating all my crops" highly doubtful there is no evidence to support his claim.." The point I was trying to make is, there is no evidence they were broken while still alive. "plus we have 2 horses that we keep in the field behind our house and the dogs have never shown any interest in chasing them they are more interested in playing amongst themselves??" Horses are different to most other livestock in that generaly they wont run from dogs on sight (especaly ones they are used to) triggering the chase instinct that is in most dogs. When you have a pack situation i.e. 2+ dogs they get excited and start to kill, once they do it once quite often the only way to stop them doing it again is to put them down. At the end of the day, you must take some of the responsability for the loss of your dog, like it or not you are responsable for it's actions, in this case chaseing and killing livestock while out on their own because you neglected to secure them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippy18 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Get a grip, just as well you live in Essex and not in the country!??! I love my dogs as much as any man, but if they worry livestock i'll shoot them myself( as I have done before) for I will have only myself to blame for letting them do so. Dogs are NOT human, they are many things that a human cannot be, but not human. They follow instinct not law. And i bet your your dogs are happy to be with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Never had one complain yet!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippy18 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Never had one complain yet!!! They would nt you would have shot them. Edited January 25, 2009 by chippy18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk101 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 not quite sure what this is supposed to mean! "Get a grip, just as well you live in Essex and not in the country!??! " but i agree with chippy18. Never had one complain yet!!! They would nt you would have shot them. god help u if u have children, u sound like such a loving chap!!!! regards turk101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Like I said, dogs are not human....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippy18 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Like I said, dogs are not human....... Maybe just as well. Perhaps i treat my dogs wrong, but i don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Rubbish, do you think any FEO will put dog down on the persons ticket, mine says I may use it to protect other animals. Henry while you may have the condition on your FAC that allows you to shoot any animal causing distress to other animals or persons, not every county has that condition, For instance here in West Yorkshire you don't get that condition on your license so if you want to shoot a sheep worrying dog, you must use a shotgun, or be in breach of the conditions of your FAC, so it would be reasonable to assume other counties while have the same conditions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 god help u if u have children, u sound like such a loving chap!!!! Sorry im with dangerzone , as for the above comment what if your dog was on the loose and a car swerved to miss it mounted the pavement where children were playing Worrying livestock can be just as heartbreaking for a farmer as its his liverlyhood ,maybe not as exteme but you get the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippy18 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Sorry im with dangerzone , as for the above comment what if your dog was on the loose and a car swerved to miss it mounted the pavement where children were playing Worrying livestock can be just as heartbreaking for a farmer as its his liverlyhood ,maybe not as exteme but you get the point I agree that a dog worrying livestock can be distressing for the farmer, but dogs and cars swerving is as you say taking it to the extreme. You would nt expect to shoot a dog that had legged it in front of a car. I agree with the livestock worrying law but the point that he is trying to make is he does not believe his dog was worrying. Unless i had seen my dogs worrying livestock i would dispute it, unless there was undeniable evidence, which he has not been shown. Maybe i am a irresponsible dog owner but i for one would not shoot my own dogs. I would if shown that they were at fault deal with it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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