David BASC Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Dear All, I know this is going to sound like teaching grandma to suck eggs…but here is a true story. BASC member calls for our advice, he has not got a shotgun cert yet but is applying, and can we help. Problem, one of the people living in his house has a criminal record and is known to the police – what can he do? We contact the FLO who says yep I know the guy, I know of the issues, if the member can find somewhere else for his cabinet to be housed, other than his home, then that will get around the problem. Job done, or so we thought. Member comes back on today, the police are taking him to court- he failed to disclose the fact he wad a prison sentence himself! Why did he not mention it on the form? It was 30 years ago so he figured it was ‘spent’ Moral of the story, fill in the form properly, disclose everything, do not try to hide anything. This guy will now, at the very least, get a nasty fine, he could go down for it, and he has certainly blown his chances of getting a SGC Can't give too many more details to be honest as the court case is yet to be heard. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) now to me this is nonsense and the police should have found out about his prison sentence during his background check prior to granting the certificate. To me this highlights a serious flaw in their system. Obviously if it did come out during the check then not exercising common sense and just telling him it should have been mentioned is a waste of public money bringing a court case. Edited April 16, 2009 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) It is down to the person applying for the licence to disclose all convictions spent or not, this is all part of the application process for several reasons. It is clearly pointed out in the application guidance notes. He didn`t get the licence issued his convictions were picked up in the checks but he tried to trick the system intentionally or not. Edited April 16, 2009 by CZ550Kevlar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 If he's supposed to put it on the form then it should've been on the form. From reading previous threads on the same topic I keep wondering, who do they think they're kidding? That the police won't find out about a previous conviction, yeah, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I know crazy isnt it. Chances are if he had done it properly he would now have his SGC and all would be well with the world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 When my FEO did my first visit he had a copy of my police record with him. Even down to parking tickets, in the time when parking tickets weren't issued by money grabbing council officials. Why try to hide it, after all the one organisation who should know about your criminal record is the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 When my FEO did my first visit he had a copy of my police record with him. Even down to parking tickets, in the time when parking tickets weren't issued by money grabbing council officials. Why try to hide it, after all the one organisation who should know about your criminal record is the police. exactly thats why this seems excessive if he believed after 30 years he didn't need to mention it, surely the better course of action would be the FEO to just explain it was any offence ever, of course if they believe he deliberately tried to gain a ticket knowing he had to disclose its a different matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 In answering question 14 You are not entitled to withhold information about any offence. This includes motoring offences, convictions in places outside Great Britain, and (by virtue of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975) convictions which are spent under the 1974 Act. Both a conditional discharge and an absolute discharge count as convictions for this purpose. That is what the form says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 a mate of mine got 3 months jail in 1972 for fighting he put this down on his application and was granted a SGC ,the feo said that if he had not put this down on his application he would not of got his SGC and would of been liable to be prosecuted . So it pays to be truthful (sometimes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 yep in the small print on the back, I'm not defending him at all just think there must be a bit more to it than an in theory honest mistake about an offence 30 years ago, after all if you've a slightly dodgy motoring record and are say 50 that could entail far more details than you could fit in the tiny box and run into additional pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berettaman Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 But just how far back do they want you to go ,surely when a period of time like that mentioned has past its a case of water under the bridge so to speak ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Maybe the moral of this story is not to get arrested and sent to prison in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 But just how far back do they want you to go ,surely when a period of time like that mentioned has past its a case of water under the bridge so to speak ? The wording says "any offence" so i geuss you go back to the first time. However far back it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pair away Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 if you contact the police and ask for a list of your convictions ( you have to pay for this ) they will print them out for you so there is no problems remembering dates etc even if it was 30 years ago , this would have saved him time and a world of trouble . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 When my FEO did my first visit he had a copy of my police record with him. Even down to parking tickets, in the time when parking tickets weren't issued by money grabbing council officials. Why try to hide it, after all the one organisation who should know about your criminal record is the police. dare we ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter De La Mare Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Can I ask at what point the missing information was picked up and what the charge that he is answering now is? Was the missing info discovered during the checking procedure after he's submitted the form, or at some point after he'd been granted it? Would there be any reason to do further background checks after a SGC had been granted? I had many motoring convictions from Guernsey dating back around 15 years to the last one that I gave a blanket answer to, rather than list them all out, as it would have taken months (not literally) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 dare we ask They used to call him Mad Jack "The Hat" McCavie. The scourge of the East End. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scifiden Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 When i put in for my FAC i got a criminal record information form from the local plod shop, filled it in & returned it to plod shop with £10. Couple of weeks later my 3 page record came back & sent it in with my FAC application. Worth the £10 as there were one or two things i'd had forgotten about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 3 pages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignoel Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 i never put any down instead i wrote check police records for details and they did and was granted sgc and fac .after appeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scifiden Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 3 pages? :o What can i say, not a good boy in my early years but kept my nose clean for the last 20 or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 How much did the appeal set you back if you don't mind me asking Noel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignoel Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 nothing as i won my case else it was going to cost in the redion of £1300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 They used to call him Mad Jack "The Hat" McCavie. The scourge of the East End. I bet it wasnt for stopping traffic with his hadsom looks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Before i filled my SGC app out i read all I could, everything i found related to being honest and not witholding anything. When i completed the form i declared EVERYTHING, the only thing that was missing from the details of where the cab would be located etc was a structural engineers report Are they going to be bothered about an SP50 (Speeding on a motorway) 6 years ago... i really doubt it, i also made a disclosure on the medical section which again is years ago... it's caused a 2.5 month wait so far due to my GP practice causing the delay by losing a letter etc but at the end of they day hopefully i'll get an SGC. I can't remember the exact verbiage but just above where you sign says something along the lines of "I certify that all details are correct, failure to do so can result in crimial proceedings" Jon. Edited April 16, 2009 by JonD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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