Evil Elvis Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Getting a tad peeed off with the met police now. Last year they came tto the edge of one of my farms and asked if we had permision to be there. The year before 2 ***** on scramblers came after us and asked us if we had permission to be there and did we have licenses. The year before that, a member of our syndicate had a HELICOPTER yes i said HELICOPTER land in the middle of his pattern and ask to see his shotgun cert....needless to say all they got was a torrent of abuse!!! Today I was shooting with my mate tiddler and a friend called Anita, I wasnt really shooting, she has just got her first gun and after taking her clays a few times to get her eye in i was attempting to teach her to pigeon shoot. We were in the middle of about a 100 acre feild, there are 2 oak trees in the middle of it slightly down a hill, the pigeons flight line in, and once they have committed over the brow of the hill they have little chance of escape, its a great ambush site, one i have used for years. We had been there for about 2 hours and there were a few pigeons in the bag, when I happenned to glance behind me and there coming up the hill, right through the middle of the crop of beans was 2 bright yellow coppers!!! I immediately told the other 2 to lower their weapons and to cease firing, after what seemd like 10 minutes they got to the hill where we were. Guess what they asked, go on bet you cant guess? Have you got a licence for those things? yes on you? no where is it? in my car, which is about 300 acres away. Please unload your weapons we are going to need to take them from you until we verify who you are. I objected to this and offerred to directly dial my feo.( i have always been told never to relinquish your weapons to the old bill or you'll never get them back) They insisted on taking them and that we needed to accompany them back to the car park of the local nursery 4-500 yards away as thier sargeant (who is an *******,according to them!!) Insisted that we bring the guns to him while we were checked out. I tried to objest and said that we could sort it out here and now and that they were disturbing our free time but they insisted. we then got the third degree all the way back to the awaiting 6 MORE officers by the female officer " Do they die instantly?" "Does it hurt them?" "What do you do with them?" At least the half sensible male officer said that they were nice and he had heard that pigeon pie was scrummy etc We were then made to walk through a 200 yard civilian area, where parents from the nursery they were parked in were collecting thier children and looking very frightened. Anita suggested that they put the firearms into a van so that it didnt scare the kids...which they did. They then asked me to prove to them that we had permission to be there and typically the guy who runs the syndicate.....was out shooting!!! Again i offered to call my feo...again the offer was declined....we then met the sargeant who took all our details and over the radio which was on speaker checked our details, everyone in the car park heard the reply that we were legit and legal. So the sargeant turns around and says: "Im not going to arrest you this time, youre free to go"" RED Flag to BULL "youre NOT going to arrest me for what?" "For failing to produce your firearm certificate" "One, its is a shotgun certificate and 2 there is no legal obligation for me to have it on my person!!!!!" "errr, oh yes there is!!!" " Since when? I have had my cert for a number of years and last time i renewed it due to getting it soaked on a game shoot, I was told categorically by Chelmsford firearms division that I did not need to have it on my person!!!" "Well Gary, maybe the law has changed?" "My Name is BARRY and dont you think that the firearms dept would have informed us if that was the case?" "Hmmmm, well my superoir said so!!" WHICH WAS UTTER ******** AS WE HEARD EVERYTHING HE SAID TO HIM OVER THE RADIO....AND I MEAN EVERYTHING!!! I suggested that he check with a firearms officer incase they ever had to deal with a firearm incident ever again " Well sir, we cant be too careful, weve had reports of ****** shooting this land....." "YES AND WHO DO YOU THINK CALLED YOU????" I then retrieved the guns from the van and was about to leave when I asked for an escort through the civilian area as i didnt want to frighten anyone....the request was declined!!!! Allegedly the nursery had made the complaint that our shots were too loud and scaring the kids (4pm) but I shot under the same trees at the same timethe week before...with....a police officer!!!!!!!! and nothing was said. Have the laws changed? do i need to carry my cert? Im going to take a photocopy from now on and a copy of my land permission, but do i need to keep the real thing on me? I heard one of the female officer that my name flagged up as a firearms holder on the pnc check....so surely that should have been enough....and ALL of that could have been done in the feild in 30 seconds...why all the bloody drama............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 i was told the same by my feo that i didnt need to take my cert out with me as it would all come up on the pnc check ... OTT if you ask me and i wouldnt expect anything else from the flipping boys in blue ( GUNS SHOOT ASK QUESTIONS LATER BRIGADE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffygun Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Yes they can check your details via a PNC check and they can find out all the details of every shotgun or firearm you possess ... Me and a friend were out with the air rifles some weeks ago and we were attacked by a local who didn't believe we had permission to be there, there was a scuffle and we called the police. They eventually arrived and we had a chat... I explained that I never carry my actual certificate with me and I have been informed to ask for a PNC check in the event of being accosted by the police I was quite surprised when the one copper didn't know he could retrieve such info on the check the female officer did know and done the check... it took about 10mins but all the info came back and he asked which gun I had with me. Not once was I asked to show my certificate, even when another copper came the following day to take a statement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Bad luck, Baz At least it didn't turn into a real drama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Hmmmm...messed up my evening!!! I had the remmy you tried with the tactical stock etc....they seemed a little frightened of that lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Hi What a day for you!!!! I have a copy of my SGC with my BASC membership in in the pocket on my gunslip. I carry it every trip just in case !!! Regards Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 well done for keeping your head though. I hope i would have kept my cool in the same situation, but it never happens that way. I think we could do with getting David (BASC) to look into the legal side of having your SGC with you. I guess it might be different in each county, or they could go on 'homo office' guidlines. It also shows how well trained the police are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 It comes up in a PNC check Baz. This is so that if they are called to a disturbance at your house they know that you have a gun / guns. I hope you let one rip as you walked away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_zero Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Have the laws changed? do i need to carry my cert? Im going to take a photocopy from now on and a copy of my land permission, but do i need to keep the real thing on me? What a nightmare! No the law hasn't changed. You do not need to carry your certificate but the police are in their right to remove the guns and not return the guns until a current certificate is produced, if this happens the police must give you a receipt and make sure you detail the guns condition. Even PNC info will not cover the officer. I always carry my certificates if I am traveling to a shoot or crossing force boundaries. A copy of your certificate is no good, got to be an original. John Edited August 7, 2009 by Hunter_zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Okay, they are within their rights to check you and your guns out but it seems that they did nothing more than could have been achieved quietly in the field you were standing in. All a bit over the top really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Classic case of being lcoated in a more quite lawfully but with-in earshot of a sensitive place. Being a children's nursery the police are jumping to the worst case scenario and glancing back to the incident at Dunblane even though the original complaint of being too loud is of no consequence and not even a threat........ I shoot in very remote places and it never ceases to amaze me how people appear form nowwhere at what would be considered ridiculous times of the night. Ring your FEO Baz, have a chat with him and square the whole thing off as no doubt there will be something said to him at some point, or otherwise tackle it face on with the local force. You will meet a wall of 'its standard procedure' and all that but I feel that the whole incident as in many cases has been handled totally incorrectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Baz, I would call John Hopes, who manages the Essex Firearms Licensing team, and get his take on this. He is not averse to giving his uniformed colleagues the hairdryer treatment when the need arises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) . Edited August 10, 2009 by MC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whizzy Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Dont know about shotgun, but it needs a firearms trained officer to handle any firearm..... "normal" officers are not allowed to touch them . This was explained to me by both a Sergeant of police and on a range when security of firearms came up !.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) iF YOU WANT the actual facts of carrying the cert ring Shooters rights speek to Richard Law or the Welsh guy Rees, but to be on the safe side i would carry a laminated signed permision letter from the land owner & one of my sgc/fac But that wont stop them being choppers mate. Get in touch with your Firearms manager asap and squair it away personally you dont want him to get it third hand and for an opinion which could adversly affect you. This is exactly what you need the Legle cover for as this type of incident is becomeing more frequent , and remember they can revoke they dont need a reason or proof Edited August 7, 2009 by Justintime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEFTY478 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Could have been worst, Bazza. You could have been Brazilian... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksaplenty Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 I read in the local paper that the police had turned up at some bloke’s house with full firearms police helicopter etc. He phoned his solicitor who told him not to let them in unless they had a search warrant and to inform them that he would present himself at the local police station the following day at a time that was convenient for him. The result a standoff until the police gave up and went home. He then went to the police station with his shotguns; they were taken off him. He immediately put in a new application for a shotgun certificate and received it back within 2 weeks. Then went and collected his guns. "The law is an ***" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Sounds a right pain in the backside, but i always have my SGC and BASC membership in the gun bag with the cartridges. To be honest you can guarantee that this may happen again and it would just make life easier for yourself if you just slipped these in your bag when out shooting. Lets hope you dont get much more problems so you can enjoy the shooting Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Why did they turn up at his house? Why did he have to apply for another certificate? Something ain't right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 i very rarely carry my cert unless i have the 10/22 out, its dog eared enough already without getting in worse shape, plus i rarely remember to take it - **** law if its in one gun slip ill lift the other one when im going out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Have you ever wondered why this happens to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 In 24 years of shooting I have never had any issues with the police nad never had them out after me. Maybe shooting near a childrens nursery isn't such a clever idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 EE it all sounds peculiar and almost like they hadn't got anything on for the afternoon, after all were it a firearms incident why did they send two unarmed cops to come and get you out of the field knowing you had shotguns on you Had you been a ***** and let a couple fly at them they wouldn't have had a clue what to do, all you can do is accept what you're doing is legal and that they are generally pretty badly educated about guns and firearms law and just nod and smile and go along with them. Get angry and wound up and you're asking for trouble. That said I would put in a written complaint and ask for an apology and better education of their officers at the very least, as for the licence you're entirely in the right so just keep doing what you're doing, though it may be worth possibly shooting that spot on a saturday when the kids aren't there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 EE it all sounds peculiar and almost like they hadn't got anything on for the afternoon, after all were it a firearms incident why did they send two unarmed cops to come and get you out of the field knowing you had shotguns on you Had you been a ***** and let a couple fly at them they wouldn't have had a clue what to do, all you can do is accept what you're doing is legal and that they are generally pretty badly educated about guns and firearms law and just nod and smile and go along with them. Get angry and wound up and you're asking for trouble. That said I would put in a written complaint and ask for an apology and better education of their officers at the very least, as for the licence you're entirely in the right so just keep doing what you're doing, though it may be worth possibly shooting that spot on a saturday when the kids aren't there I think that is a sensible option, just avoid the area at times of use...... Its just a sensitive area and there is nothing you can do about it with obviously silly people that run it. If it is ever made mandatory with informing authorities when you shoot or if formally drawn permissions, it will be a difficult time for shooting full stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymagic1969 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Why should he not shoot there during the week ? he has permission and the licence to do so If i was you EE i would inform the Nursery that you will be shooting and then they should have no reason to call the feds. Maybe you could also inform the boys in blue that you are out shooting in that location as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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