al4x Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 If he's upsetting the neighbours then it doesn't help with keeping the permission etc Farmers don't tend to like upsetting people as it comes back to bite you. Much like this case they put up with it one week then the next obviously still didn't like it so called the plod. Ok he could talk to the nursery or inform the police he's going out but in my experience if they've taken it up with plod and they won't do anything then the next person they'll give agro to is the landowner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeymagic1969 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Point taken Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Being a children's nursery the police are jumping to the worst case scenario and glancing back to the incident at Dunblane even though the original complaint of being too loud is of no consequence and not even a threat........ That may be true, but why did then then drag them back to the nursery car park to question them. That must have really upset the mums kids and staff. This is exactly what the antis are looking for. Cant you see the head lines." Three armed suspects detained by police at local nursery. ". You could have been the queen, the lord cheif justice and the home secratery and you would come out looking bad from that one. Elvis have you upset some one ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Elvis have you upset some one ?? Only constantly!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whizzy Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Think best to inform them before going, by phone preferably with name taken. Dont want to turn up at nursery, they dont usually welcome visitors. Inform the police naming the person you spoke to. Only have to do it untill they get used to you being there. If they then call the police, they are wasting police time. If they complain the the land owner ok, But chances are they won't. . They have shown their commitment to protecting the children. Dont give up the permission so easy... You are not threatening the nursery in any way, vermin control is a part of life ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 That handling of the matter is utter rubbish. Anyway just in case some of the josworths do come and question me next time I am out with my gun or travelling tot he clay range I always have my certificate on me. I would love to see the police officer's face next week, I am taking the gun in a slip and cycling to the clay range: about 10 miles. If I get stopped, which I probbaly will I will have the certificate on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 That handling of the matter is utter rubbish. Anyway just in case some of the josworths do come and question me next time I am out with my gun or travelling tot he clay range I always have my certificate on me. I would love to see the police officer's face next week, I am taking the gun in a slip and cycling to the clay range: about 10 miles. If I get stopped, which I probbaly will I will have the certificate on me. I sincerely hope you are more sensible than your posts suggests, You sound about 10 with your " I would love to see the look on the police officers face" why on earth should you get questioned when driving to the clay ground? I have transported guns all over the country and normally have a gun in my car most days but I have never been stopped. (well not for carrying guns anyway) My certificate is always with me as it would save all this aggro. The situation would have been diffused straight away if Baz had his certificate and permission on him. This is what pockets are for. You carry enough gear when pigeon shooting, your documents are hardly likely to cause an inconvenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 I have had a very similar scenario whilst out shooting pigeon with "hawkeye" chopper two armed response and an unarmed beat bobby ( he was the *** of the three) ended up amicably, although the opening gambit was a bit rude but a shout of OK from the chopper saying its just a couple of blokes pigeon shooting calmed things down a bit , but he still starts ranting why did you not phone in and tell us etc and the armed lads will want to see your guns etc (they didn't) he was politely told the legalities and asked JUST what is the problem etc? we were then asked our names and addresses then a minute later OK lads sorry to have bothered you no need to check your guns all is in order oh can I have a lift back to my car, as the other lads picked a few pigeon to take away? and all because some *** of a woman out walking a dog (TRESSPASSING AT THAT) reports in that we are scaring her dog she then it seems put in a complaint to the council who visited the farm re a potential noise nuisance the result of which the official was told **** off sort the daft tart for trespassing I will have the pigeon controlled like it or not, we have shot there many many times since with no bother whatsoever BUT at this farm we always now ring the police control room first. all in all I have been stopped 4 times by police whilst out shooting even had them waiting at the end of a farm track at 3 am! always ended up with a pleasant chat, one once said " I wondered who the lucky **** was who shot here" and no never once had my license asked for or checked or told PUT THE GUN DOWN. cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 "I sincerely hope you are more sensible than your posts suggests, You sound about 10 with your " I would love to see the look on the police officers face" why on earth should you get questioned when driving to the clay ground? I have transported guns all over the country and normally have a gun in my car most days but I have never been stopped. (well not for carrying guns anyway)" It was in connection to the: cycling to the range bit. Next week I am CYCLING top the range, not driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 bloody hell Kdubya do I take it from that you haven't been harrased or victimised by the police or even been given a quiet kicking when no one was looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think that is a sensible option, just avoid the area at times of use...... Its just a sensitive area and there is nothing you can do about it with obviously silly people that run it. If it is ever made mandatory with informing authorities when you shoot or if formally drawn permissions, it will be a difficult time for shooting full stop. BASC ARE BACKING THIS SCEEM PHONE BEFORE YOU GO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 I too had a similar quite worrying experience while out with my shotty a couple of months ago and the police that turned up didn't have a clue what they were doing! Sorry if this is a bit drawn out but to understand you need to know the full details. I had not long arrived at the farm (Where I have full written permission) and spoke to the farmer to check on where liovestock etc: were and then phoned the local police station to let them know that I was going to be shooting there (Something I ALWAYS do to "cover my back"). I had only been out for about ten minutes and not even seen a rabbit (Which is what I was after) when I saw a police car driving along the old disused road that "disects" this particular permission. Five minutes later I saw the same police car driving up the farm driveway (Which is over a quarter of a mile long) so I decided to return to the farm in case there was a problem of some sort. I got to the farm house at the same time as the police and they imediately called me over by name (So they evidently knew and had checked that I had registered the fact that I was out rabbit shooting on that farm). I hasten to add that by this time I had already unloaded my gun and left it "broken" to show it was safe. They told me that I had been reported for "Firing my shotgun on ***** Old Road. To that I relied"That's interesting as I haven't even fired a shot yet!" At that time the farmer and his wife came out to see what the problem was and to confirm that I had full permission to shoot anywhere on their land. With this one of the officers (A young "bolshy" one) started getting awkward and said that he would have to confliscate my gun until the matter was resolved. With that I saw red as I had done nothing wrong and was not prepared to hand my shotty over without good reason! I asked them why they had not even asked to check my SGC, or to chech if the gun I had with me was in fact the gun registered on my certificate, or have a look at the gun to see if it had been fired! They asked to see my SGC but did not have a clue as to where it was marked as to what gun I had registered to me and, even when I pointed this out to them they did not know where to look on the gun for the serial number until I showed them. By this time both the farmer and his wife were getting a little annoyed with the police and they explained that there had been a similar incident a few weeks earlier with a friend who I share the permission with. Anyway, back to this incident! I then asked when I was surposed to have been firing my gun on the road and was told that it was about 10 to 15 minutes before they had turned up. This I said was total rubbish as I was talking to the farmer at that time and had not even got my gun out of it's slip by then and, bieng as I had not fired a shot that day maybe they should check if the shotgun had been fired. This made sence to them (eventually) but unfortunately they did not even have a clue as to how they should go about this i.e. by looking down the barrels as I clean my shotty as soon as I get home after every outing. Eventually they had to accept that I had not even fired the gun so the report was false and left me and the farmer in peace. We have had a further incident on the same farm where my friend was reported for threatening a lady (The same "lady" who had just reported me) with his rifle! He had been out shooting foxes on the lamp and the lady walked straight in to the field and started shouting the usual "Cruel bas***ds for shooting poor inocent little foxes etc". and when told that she was trespassing and should leave the land she gave out even more verbal abuse before leaving. I have to add that my mate knew she was there well before she showed herself and had already unloaded his rifle and put it in it's slip which he carries in his ruchsack. The outcome was that this involved yet another visit by the police to my mates home and to the farmer (at midnight would you believe) to look into and investigate the situation. The outcome was that the farmer, my mate and I asked for a meeting with the police to get something done about this lady (Who feeds the foxes and is VERY ANTI) as we were worried that if this sort of thing carried on we might lose the permission. After the meeting the police visited the "lady" and told her that we were acting completely within the law and warned her, in no uncetraian terms, that any more of her behaviour would lead to her being charged with wasting police time and that she should not under any circumstances enter that farmers land again (Except on a public footpath that crosses the land) without good reason or there would aslo be a charge of trespassing thrown if for good measure. Fortunately we have had no further problems with the lady, but who knows, time will tell. I have only given details of this incident (Me being accused of firing my shotgun on a public highway) to highlight how some of the police just don't have a clue when dealing with firearm offences. I have to add that I do have the highest regard for the police, especially where shotgung and firearms are concerned, it's just a shame that SOME of them do not have a clue as to how to go about investigating this type of complaint. Just as a footnote, I was pulled up on a spot check a week of so later by would you believe the same "bolshy" young officer while I had my shotty and a 22-250 in the 4X4 with me - He decided to be extremely polite about things and didn't even want to check my SGC, my FAC or the shotty or rifle and ammunition even when I told him that I was carrying firearms and ammunition in the car with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Im a bit gobsmacked and also annoyed in the way the rozzers treated EE.I achknowledge that gun crime does exist,but the chances of the taliban or local yardies having a training camp in the middle of a cereal crop field near civilisation is kinda remote so why did the Police insist on being so heavy handed? Also,if they had reports of gunfire-why wasnt experienced officers sent to the scene who would have known that a simple pnc check could have smoothed everything out in minutes? If the school teacher was frightened of gunshot then thats their fault for not accepting perfectly legal rural pusuits.That fear will only be passed onto the children in her care which isnt the smartest thing to do when guns are already portrayed in a negative 'gangster' way in the media and films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 It has to do with disarming the populace and making them feel that guns are evil and nothing good will come from them. It is not the right way to go about it. 100 years ago hunting was so normal that a man with a gun in his hands by a school wouldn't have even batted an eyelid, now however it is a risky business to hunt near places which are too close to civilisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksaplenty Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Whose fault is it?: Is it the nursery? No, they were doing their job. They heard shooting near by so quite rightly informed the police. Is it the police? No, If the police get a call from the public informing them that someone is out with a gun they have to attend. Is it the officers? They sound like they could have handled it a lot bit better. It is symptomatic of the gap that is forming between the urban-trained police and the 'real world' of the countryside. Is it the pigeon shooters? No. They have every right to be out shooting These incidents are never really going to be resolved in our favour. We live on a crowded island! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 It has to do with disarming the populace and making them feel that guns are evil and nothing good will come from them. It is not the right way to go about it. 100 years ago hunting was so normal that a man with a gun in his hands by a school wouldn't have even batted an eyelid, now however it is a risky business to hunt near places which are too close to civilisation. You are right. I remember as a kid being with a friend at his grandparents house who lived in a nearby village and you thought nothing of seeing someone walking past the house with a shotgun over one shoulder and half dozen rabbits tied with string off the other.Fast forward 30 years and you just couldnt do that because the village is now inhabited by people who have little knowledge of rural life.I know the world is changing and sometimes for the worst,but surely common sense isnt going extinct too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Thanks for all the constructive comments!! I would of had my firearms cert with me,...**** law, i took it out and took it to work with me to an interview, its one of the forms of id accepted, as my passport is away being renewed. I had my permision card with me, but it says the name of the shooting club on it but it doesnt have the land or the owners details, which we are correcting today!!! The rules are, if we are shooting at night that we ring in and create an incident number and close it as we leave the land, which i do religiously! The farm is in 2 halves, I rarely shoot the side with the nursery in it, but the pigeons are on the beans big time which is the first year theyve planted beans on that side. Ive been over there regulalry and no-one has said a word. Obviously i dont want to **** the farmer off and risk the permission, i doubt it would come to that as I have decimated the rabbits and squirrels over the last 4 years so much so that its hard to find a squirrel and the rabbits are hugley reduced especially since i got my fac. I am going to visit the nursery, non cammoed up and ask if i can have thier number and let them know if I am shooting there.I suspect there are new owners as Ive been shooting there for 4 years without a problem. We have had issues with ****** and issues with poachers and never once have they responded.................. The funny thing is they took our guns but never searched us to see if we had any more, the 2 officers that sheepishly asked for the guns had no vests on, however 4 out of 6 of the others had vests on!!!! And yes the normal plod know nothing about firearms....but one of them HAD a sidearm on his belt....surely he should have known? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 That just shocks me that even officers with weapons on them do not know the correct procedure to carry out when approaching armed suspects. Surely a name check which would have shown you have a shotgun and a firearm would have sufficed. I got stopped this summer at Heathrow when going on holiday by armed officers since I looks a lot like a suspect they were chasing, but once I told them my name and they checked with on the computer they could clearly see I had a shotgun licence and everything was ok. After another 5 minutes talking they left me alone, that is how every stop should be carried out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyIrl Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 My fo told me to keep my firearms licence in the car with me as it would be the handiest place. Its an piece of paper over here(not sure what yours are like in the UK). There bringing in a new thing now where it will be a credit card thing. Would be handy to keep in the wallet. Iv been stopped at random checkpoints with the gun (in a sleeve) and cartridges in the back seat(usually gun in boot), where the cop just said off for a bit of shooting? and let me off without checking anything . I keep it in the glovebox but have never been asked for it. Iv even had cop cars pass me while iv been puttin the gun back in the car and none of them stop. Its seems to be a bit less hassle with gaurds around here. This story is completely mad. Think its a case of police showing their 'power'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonk Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 You should raise a formal complaint EE. As the officers called in, it is possible for them to check which officers were present and who should require extra tuition regarding firearms and the law. The sergeant should have know better than to allow his unarmed officers to approach armed "suspects" without back up (the armed officer was clearly nearby), the area that was chosen to use to carry out simple checks was unsatisfactory (to say the least) and the armed officer is at fault for not taking control of the situation when it started getting silly. You have every right to be aggrieved and the superintendant needs to know what a complete mess these officers made of a simple PNC check, at least two of which should have made much more informed decisions as one is a sergeant and one carries a firearm all day every day for a job! The whole thing is quite worrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Just spoke to John Hopes who told me that I was technically wrong: If a police officer asks to see your certificate then until you produce it then they have the rights to confiscate your guns until such time that you produce your up to date cert. Ooooooooooooooooops!!! But the officers there clearly didnt know that fact either.................... He advised me to take a photocopy on the shoots with me though also stated that this is not 100% acceptable it may get you out of trouble. and to carry your permision slips at all times. But I suggested calling in to the police whenever i shoot there, he said it was a good idea but may not stop you getting visits and he thought that the idea to contact the nursery each time is also a good idea. My feo has retired and its only the second time i have spoken to John ....what a pleasant helpful chap with a wicked sense of humour lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 You are right. I remember as a kid being with a friend at his grandparents house who lived in a nearby village and you thought nothing of seeing someone walking past the house with a shotgun over one shoulder and half dozen rabbits tied with string off the other.Fast forward 30 years and you just couldnt do that because the village is now inhabited by people who have little knowledge of rural life.I know the world is changing and sometimes for the worst,but surely common sense isnt going extinct too. i still do that tbh, tho i keep the gun in a slip and put the rabbits in a carrier bag if im walking through town what i dont understand is how the police over here have stopped our car 3 or 4 times in the last year (at band parades, etc) and have never commented on the guns, even though they were in plain view! it happened again last week, i was in full dpms and had the synthetic mossberg sitting betwen my knees on the passenger seat, the cop just directed us around a roundabout that was blocked do a a festival. if the psni can be like that after all the troubles weve had whats wrong with english cops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 "if the psni can be like that after all the troubles weve had whats wrong with english cops? " British cops sometimes panick a lot compared to other cops, but I would say by the sound of things the most over reacting cops must be the Americans. I mean there, failure to show your licence at a traffic stop can result in you getting dragged form your car at gun point and made to bite the concrete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Baz, I popped over there last week to walk off the effects of the injections from a couple of fillings (my dentist is situated just the over side of the main road up from the station). Happened to have the Urika with me and emptied it close by where you were, nearer the houses by the stream than the nursery though. Heard a few police sirens shortly afterwards and assumed one of them was for me, none about as I crossed the stream but there were quite a few adults and kids about; most of whom with shocked faces. I just wished them all good day and carried on walking back to the motor. It's definitely better coming in from the side I usually do, it's Essex Police on that side and Met where you usually come from No coincidence that is my favoured side; and I live in the Met area... Also the attitude between the residents on each side is very different. All that said, point of entry was unlikely to have had any affect on what you experienced, at least it was just a minor inconvenience rather than a significant incident. The location of that nursery is a bit of a tricky one. Can see it from both sides - as others have already said. My 6 year old loves guns and shooting, been with me the last few clay shoots, but I am quite sure he would be most distressed if he heard a shottie going off whilst sat in his class-room at school. (Actually given his school's location it would be of concern to most but I'm sure you get my point). Given the circumstances I think you handled it pretty well mate. I do think it's high time some signs went up around the borders as the pedestrian "traffic", "frolicking" and people on motorcycles is getting ridiculous and should be cause for concern. Was out with Zeus on Tuesday (without a gun) and came across three youths in the woods with a motorcrosser and some dodgy smokes. Told them they shouldn't be there and they were spoiling my (paid for) sport - their retort was that their mate (the older guy with the monkey bike) has permission from the farmer and he's said it's OK for them to be there). With that mickey mouse membership card what kind of authority to move them on do I have? not a lot ... did suggest they were messing ********* and asked them to take their litter home. They were back on the bike racing up and the down the woods before I got out of the field... Raja edit: typo made it sound like I was encouraging them to be litter bugs Edited August 7, 2009 by Raja Clavata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 and to carry your permision slips at all times. since when has it been mandatory to have written permission, its NOT a legal requirement at all 90% of the farms I shoot on and there's more than a few! I only have the farmers nod and telephone number cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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