fieldwanderer Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 I've had my .22/250 for 3-4 years now and found very early on that I could have done with a .243 really as the farmer wants some roe thinning out. When the .22/250 had just been granted, I asked to change to .243 but was met with the old story about DSC 1, mentors etc and decided to leave it alone. The conditions are fox and aolq and it's an open cert. I've had firearms since I was 18 and nearly 34 now. So, it's renewal time and I've asked for a .260rem as my barrel's seen better days but I've a feeling it's not going to be straight forward so I'm considering joining the basc. Do you think it'll help and, if they get involved, am I likely to have a harder time with the firearms people from then on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 If you can prove a valid use for the caliber why do you foresee any problems? Just apply for what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Really can't see the problem here, just apply for the rifle you need so long as you have land and good reason there should be no bother. Many people including myself were issued a deer legal calibre with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted November 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Just because of the reaction last time and previous threads on here saying similar. I have applied, just wondering if I should be covering myself because of the above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Hi Are you a member of any organisation? The only problem you may have if your not could be getting the relevant insurance Other than that crack on and see what they say All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 You should belong to one of the shooting organisations. Both for your sake and for the sake of out sport. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted November 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) I'm with the nsra and bds so yes I'm insured but its having an organisation behind me for this particular "problem" (should it arise) that I'm interested in at the moment Edited November 25, 2016 by fieldwanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 .260 Rem is absolutely delicious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted November 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 That's partly why I went for it (partly because I can rebarrel for it). Fingers crossed they let me have it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 That's partly why I went for it (partly because I can rebarrel for it). Fingers crossed they let me have it I presume you'll reload? What rifle are you rebarrelling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted November 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Yeah already loading my own for the. 22/250 It's a sako 75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Yeah already loading my own for the. 22/250 It's a sako 75 You have a marriage made in heaven with that rifle and caliber. Who's doing the work for you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Personally I wouldn't join any organisation unless you feel the need, and certainly not for the reasons you've given. If you have good reason then just go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted November 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) I've gotta get it granted first dougy but I'll go with dave folwell again if he's still on the go Edited November 25, 2016 by fieldwanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Personally I wouldn't join any organisation unless you feel the need, and certainly not for the reasons you've given. If you have good reason then just go for it. When I had the same issue originally the woman I spoke to at BASC told me I should do the DSC course. It's only £500 odd and they just so happened to run it 🙄 I told the Police there isn't any requirement and they sent it back with deer added on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 When I had the same issue originally the woman I spoke to at BASC told me I should do the DSC course. It's only £500 odd and they just so happened to run it I told the Police there isn't any requirement and they sent it back with deer added on! Good for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 I've had my .22/250 for 3-4 years now and found very early on that I could have done with a .243 really as the farmer wants some roe thinning out. When the .22/250 had just been granted, I asked to change to .243 but was met with the old story about DSC 1, mentors etc and decided to leave it alone. The conditions are fox and aolq and it's an open cert. I've had firearms since I was 18 and nearly 34 now. So, it's renewal time and I've asked for a .260rem as my barrel's seen better days but I've a feeling it's not going to be straight forward so I'm considering joining the basc. Do you think it'll help and, if they get involved, am I likely to have a harder time with the firearms people from then on? Stop being so subservient. The criteria for grant is safety, reason, place to use it and security. Now as You have a weapon most of the above have already been covered. safety, reason and security. So the only thing to consider is reason and place to use it that has deer on it and that isn't totally necessary because you could go on a paid stalk. This bussiness about mentors is a load of nonsense and so is the dsc1. (What qualifications do mentors have, who is issuing these qualifications and who has the responsibility for the actions of both the mentor and the shooter in the event of a problem?) If You have had a 22-250 for x years then it is just as potentially dangerous as a 243 or whatever. Any org can do no more than you can. They have no power that you don't. If the FeO comes out with this rubbish take it up with the head of the firearms department and give them some gyp over it. Again it is just a case of make it up as they go along. Best foot forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted November 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 You've got a point fortune, I think maybe I should be doing a lot of reading up so I've got the facts ready to quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 At the weekend I was on a friend's shoot and a lady who was shooting said that recently she had renewed her certificate and plod had wanted her to pay for the doctors report. She had paid for it because she thought that she had to. So where are the all powerful orgs that are supposed to be standing up for shooters rights that this sort of thing goes on without challenge. No doubt they are off somewhere in a meeting in nice hotel having a nice dinner after driving there in a nice new car provided by the membership to discuss what they might give their views to a meeting with others about what might be discussed at some point in the future. I spend the org money in my local gun shop and if it ever came to it at solicitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 When I had the same issue originally the woman I spoke to at BASC told me I should do the DSC course. It's only £500 odd and they just so happened to run it I told the Police there isn't any requirement and they sent it back with deer added on! This is the only answer You have experience why the change in view on whether you are safe? HO guidance No restricions on adding species where good reason already exists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted November 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2016 Can anyone point me at the relevant, up to date documents please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushandpull Posted November 27, 2016 Report Share Posted November 27, 2016 Just to make a couple of factual points - there are many "suppliers" of DSC 1 training, including BASC. None of these courses will cost anything like £500. If you know your stuff you can just do the assessment at a very low cost. When dealing with plod over firearms issues it is sometimes easier to jump through the hoops to get the result you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted November 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2016 Agreed, and I did a lot of revision for the dsc1 at the time but have yet to go for it. But I do dislike the thought of jumping through their expensive hoops when there's not a good reason to ask me to do so and no legal requirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted November 27, 2016 Report Share Posted November 27, 2016 Just to make a couple of factual points - there are many "suppliers" of DSC 1 training, including BASC. None of these courses will cost anything like £500. If you know your stuff you can just do the assessment at a very low cost. When dealing with plod over firearms issues it is sometimes easier to jump through the hoops to get the result you want. So 4 days off 3 nights accomadation transport costs and course fees are less than £ 500 ? Agreed there are a lot of providers and one would hope basc would be one of the best 🤐 However one should be careful jumping through hoops that you have no legal reason to you are merely feeding cash into the providers pocket Show good reason and crack on All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted November 27, 2016 Report Share Posted November 27, 2016 Can anyone point me at the relevant, up to date documents please? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-law-guidance-to-the-police-2012 10.47 Every effort must be made to limit the number of additional conditions imposed on a firearm certificate and ensure that they are not contradictory. Care should be taken, however, to ensure that all ‘good reasons’ for which a firearm is possessed are allowed for, for instance stalking and target shooting. 10.48 There is no requirement to establish ‘good reason’ for additional conditions or the addition of quarry species to an existing condition where ‘good reason’ already exists for the possession of a firearm in the first instance (See chapter 13). Firearms should be conditioned to provide flexibility with quarry shooting by allowing all lawful quarry (see Appendix 3). 13.7 With the exception of the limits set by the Deer Acts (for more information, see chapter 14) and similar legislation, the suggested calibres for different quarry species are intended as examples of the typical range of calibres used rather than prescriptive limits. In most cases there will be a range of broadly similar commercial calibres suitable for different quarry (see paragraph 13.8 for definition of this term for the purposes of this guidance). (I.e. get a ******* .243 for foxes! then get deer added if they are being ***** about it) 13.17 The table at the end of this chapter provides guidance on whether, for the purposes of establishing “good reason”, a particular calibre is suitable for shooting certain quarry. It should be noted that the list of calibres is not exhaustive but will serve as a useful guide. Quarry Shooting Note that the absence of a calibre in the table below should not preclude it being considered by the Police. The purpose of this table is as a guide to establish initial “good reason”. .243 for fox? - (Yes for .243 & 6mm/.244) (see also paragraph 13.25) Fox 13.25 Although not set out in legislation, common rifle cartridges considered suitable for the shooting of foxes range from .17 Remington, and .22 Hornet to .22 -250 and .220 Swift, though there is a wide range of suitable similar calibres commercially available. In windy areas, where heavier bullets aid accurate shooting, or if applicants wish to use one rifle for shooting both deer and foxes, they may choose a rifle in 6mm (.243/.244) or 6.5mm (.264) calibre. .22 Rimfires are generally considered as having insufficient muzzle energy to be used against foxes in most circumstances. However, these could be suitable for use at short range by experienced persons, and may be permitted in certain situations such as around farm buildings or paddocks. It is for the operator to ensure that the quarry species are shot at the appropriate range with the appropriate ammunition to achieve a humane kill. Combination shotgun/rifles should have the rifled barrel in a similar calibre. Expanding ammunition should be authorised for shooting foxes. Those involved in shooting foxes will normally be authorised to possess up to 250 rounds, but consideration should be given to each shooter’s individual circumstances, particularly where re-loaders are acquiring missiles. See also paragraph 13.9 on allowing the applicant flexibility to reasonably shoot other species on named land. 13.26 It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles. Experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is transferable between quarry species tell them to stop dicking around foxes require humane shooting too, you don't need DSC1 (it teaches you precisely **** all about humane shooting that you dont already know anyway) You dont need a mentor as you already have a centrefire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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