adam1 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Having gained more permission I'm tempted to apply for my FAC, I have one permission that has a flood bank providing a perfect backstop, the bank is around 15 meters beyond the boundry of my permission but I am led to belive that is not any problem. The other permission is over 100 acres ( set amongst hundreds of acres on which I dont have permission) but is totally flat and open and to be totally honest I dont know how this type of land would be shot over, I realise elevation would help but thats not really practical. There are no public rights of way on the land. The main quarry would be rabbit hare and crow, I would be applying for .22Lr and 17HMR, the HMR would be for use on the open land, how do you deal with this sort of land? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Having gained more permission I'm tempted to apply for my FAC, I have one permission that has a flood bank providing a perfect backstop, the bank is around 15 meters beyond the boundry of my permission but I am led to belive that is not any problem. The other permission is over 100 acres ( set amongst hundreds of acres on which I dont have permission) but is totally flat and open and to be totally honest I dont know how this type of land would be shot over, I realise elevation would help but thats not really practical. There are no public rights of way on the land. The main quarry would be rabbit hare and crow, I would be applying for .22Lr and 17HMR, the HMR would be for use on the open land, how do you deal with this sort of land? Wrong!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy1403 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Wrong!!! whats the point in just saying wrong.the guy is asking questions if your not going to give him the correct answer don`t reply to him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Adam, the point that Dekers is so politely trying to make is that it would be illegal to allow any shot to leave the boundary of your permission. So even if it it were a mountain range 15m from your permissions boundary you could not use it. You might be able to get FAC Airgun otherwise you will probably need to find a way to get to an elevated position. It will do you no harm to contact your local FEO and ask prior to your application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 whats the point in just saying wrong.the guy is asking questions if your not going to give him the correct answer don`t reply to him Sorry chap I thought that was quite self explanitory....... and I was just off out to a shoot as well....... and I'm not sure the point you are trying to make. My answer is correct, what he was led to believe is wrong! He cannot rely on ANYTHING outside the boundary he has permission to shoot on as he has no permission to use it and absolutely no control over it. The owner may decide to knock down the bank at any time or sell tickets for open air picnics on it. ATB!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam1 Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I dont know how to word this without sounding like i'm being cocky just trust me thats not my intension but with the potential range of travel of the humble 22lr round being over a mile let alone that of larger calibres how do people in lets say Linconshire, East Anglia, Norfolk and those type of totally flat areas go on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I dont know how to word this without sounding like i'm being cocky just trust me thats not my intension but with the potential range of travel of the humble 22lr round being over a mile let alone that of larger calibres how do people in lets say Linconshire, East Anglia, Norfolk and those type of totally flat areas go on? Using high seats or elevated positions I guess. My permission is very flat, with little or no backstops, there is a sizable thread on backstops if you search the topics I have started, I was in the same type of position as you. My FEO acknowledged my land was very flat but the visibilty was very good, horses for courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I dont know how to word this without sounding like i'm being cocky just trust me thats not my intension but with the potential range of travel of the humble 22lr round being over a mile let alone that of larger calibres how do people in lets say Linconshire, East Anglia, Norfolk and those type of totally flat areas go on? Hi, If you're talking sub-sonic, it's about half that which may ease your situation somewhat. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) I dont know how to word this without sounding like i'm being cocky just trust me thats not my intension but with the potential range of travel of the humble 22lr round being over a mile let alone that of larger calibres how do people in lets say Linconshire, East Anglia, Norfolk and those type of totally flat areas go on? It's not quite as flat as you think (these counties) plus we use man made backstops ie the big straw bales i think they are called hestons somebody might correct me on that as long as they are not being used for animal feed. Edited January 20, 2010 by jasons gold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 A lot of guys use shooting trucks. You shoot off of the roof so it's kind of a mobile high seat. A lot of the ground I shoot over is flat and if I want to shoot the areas that don't offer a natural stop I stand on the back of the pickup and rest on the cab roof. It gives you a good enough angle to shoot out to reasonable ranges. I also help matters a bit by shooting fast calibres. I use my .17 Ackley Hornet on flat ground as the bullets tend to break up a lot more reliably than they do from a .22lr. The HMR is good in these situations too. When I had mine I can count on one hand how many ricochets I had, they were very rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 A lot of guys use shooting trucks. You shoot off of the roof so it's kind of a mobile high seat. A lot of the ground I shoot over is flat and if I want to shoot the areas that don't offer a natural stop I stand on the back of the pickup and rest on the cab roof. It gives you a good enough angle to shoot out to reasonable ranges. I also help matters a bit by shooting fast calibres. I use my .17 Ackley Hornet on flat ground as the bullets tend to break up a lot more reliably than they do from a .22lr. The HMR is good in these situations too. When I had mine I can count on one hand how many ricochets I had, they were very rare. oh dear time to put the kettle on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 why its true, if you're shooting from an elevated position so straight onto soil the HMR is very unlikely to ricochet and by the nature of flat open ground you have a good view behind where you're shooting. 17 grain bullet once its hit the ground doesn't travel far and doesn't in one piece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Unless you're shooting upwards, it's not going to be a huge problem. If you're shooting prone, the muzzle is about 15" max from the ground, so within 250 yards the bullet will hit ground. And that's if you're shooting perfectly flat, which you won't be as a rabbit isn't 15 inches tall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Unless you're shooting upwards, it's not going to be a huge problem. If you're shooting prone, the muzzle is about 15" max from the ground, so within 250 yards the bullet will hit ground. And that's if you're shooting perfectly flat, which you won't be as a rabbit isn't 15 inches tall! And where does the bullet go after it hits the ground? as it will only skip off at that low angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 On hard baked mud I expect, but of grassy ground it goes straight in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 On hard baked mud I expect, but of grassy ground it goes straight in. Believe me it doesn't, I had a 7.62 round skip off the range floor and still go through the target and get scored. This was all watched by a spotter through a scope. The greater the angle the less chance there is of a richochet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Believe me it doesn't, I had a 7.62 round skip off the range floor and still go through the target and get scored. This was all watched by a spotter through a scope. The greater the angle the less chance there is of a richochet. Just out of interest I assume it keyholed the paper? The key thing I like about the HMR and my Ackley in these situations is the extreme light weight of the bullet. It's so delicate it's not likely to come up, and if it does it will be badly bent up and will lose pace quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Similar position to you on my land quite flat with it being in the vale of york with one soild bank backstop on each field running down the side and that is it well on nearly all of them anyway. In my interview i was granted hmr and lr and got told when i put in for centrefire (next six months or so) the land will have to be reassessed and to consider installing a couple of high seats so this is what i shall do near the time, one high seat on each area of woodland just makes it look like you are trying. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 7.62 round = FMJ, HMR round = plastic tip, just a BIT of difference in bullet construction there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 7.62 round = FMJ, HMR round = plastic tip, just a BIT of difference in bullet construction there... Not necessarily and the ballistic tip only works correctly if it strikes at 90 degrees which is wouldn't do if it struck the ground from being fired prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyblanco Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I have some hilly and some flat land, for the flat we use a haystack for the centre fires or go off the back of a truck. As people have mentioned the hmr is quite forgiving and in my experience only bounces once in a few hundred when zeroing, I can't ever remember a ricochet when hunting and am not that good I am pretty scared of using the .22lr in all but a few places as most plinking shots fizz off into the distance, one of my permissions is fenland flat but bordered by the river ouse. You can see just the head and shoulders of people drifting by on boats in the horizon and it scares the **** out of me. I would ask for an HMR and use a 4x4/high seat/shooting sticks to get an angle and then just get Fac air which sounds more suitable, speak to your FEO and find out what they think. It will prove you are thinking about safety but I wouldn't mention using the bank as a backstop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 7.62 is a military round, which means you are talking Ball, tracer or AP. Regarding the polymer tip, it is not just the tip that counts - they have a very thin jacket near the tip so they are considerably more likely to fragment on contact with the ground than FMJ, which has quite a thick jacket and is designed not to mushroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shot shot Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 back on subject, perhaps you could go cap in hand to the farmer/landowner of the "backstop" who knows, you may even get more land out of it if it goes well :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 9R Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) :unsure: (Not that he is) The worst that could happen is he says no! Edited January 21, 2010 by Red 9R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 :unsure: (Not that he is) The worst that could happen is he says no! Another vote for asking permission to use the bank as a backstop, farmer is quite likely to say yes I would have thought and you never know he might offer you some sport the other side of the bank. As far as high shooting a .22LR, it doesn't really make a lot of difference. The angle it hits the soil is largely irrelevant, if it hits a stone from high or prone it's still going to richochet. From prone the bullet is slightly more likely to skip and keep going in roughly the direction it was already heading but richochets are influenced by too many factors to really be able to accurately predict what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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