Death penalty. Yes or No?

[Mungler]

Interesting bit on the 3 Strikes Law they operate in the States >here<

 

Turns out there was no reduction in crime and the murder rate still went up, but this time people were getting double life sentances with no parole for a bit of shop lifting >here<

 

Interesting to see Kdubya taking a considered and moderate view on this.

 

Indeed, anyone with an enquiring mind ought to realise that the Justice system is not about Justice. It's about processes and a final decision. The final decision is often flawed - a flawed police service, a flawed judiciary and a flawed jury system. Tack on a bit of hanging at the end and it's quite a heady mix.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would no more let the prolific offenders out into the community than release a rabid dog. For people like them, life must mean life but I think they should be put to work even if that does mean breaking rocks.

[bicykillgaz]

i think the death penalty should be brought back but only if it can be proven by physical evidence, and not by a normal jury either it should be a jury of judges as i think joe public can be swayed emotionally too easily.

 

i think things like stone cold murder should be punishable by dead but things like manslaughter should be a sentence depending on the circumstances someone who is attacked and kills in self defence should do time, but someone who goes out drinkdriving and kills someone should pay with there own life. kiddie fiddlers should be put to death same with rapists but pretty much anything else should be a custodial sentence.

 

i also think shorter sentences and corporal punishment should be brought back but corporal punishment should take place weekly for theiving smackheads and the rest of the petty offenders who just re-offend so they don't have to face up to real life, and everytime they re-offend they should get double the lashings so they know next time they get a three month sentence for mugging an old lady they will be the most painful 3 months of there bloody lives!

[Pepe]

I voted "No" but I can see it being useful in some instances for the severe psycho's. What I would do instead of the death penalty is to take away all their human rights and get them to do hard labour. They could do all the crappy jobs nobody else wants to do too. No TV games or any privileges.

[inthedark]

In the dark *** are you on about ? Are you now the one who is going to cause the thread to be closed by bringing religion into it? Stating that it is all the Christians who are causing the problems to do with Muslims - what you trying to do man create a Holy? Terrorists are one thing and should be dealt with in one manner ie through the martial law available to this country against terrorism. Murderers and such are dealt with by criminal law and if that don't work then private individuals can try civil law as has been done sucessfully in the past to at least get at a criminal.

 

Mixing them all up to boost your argument for the death penalty is just pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft or blowing it out your earhole.

 

Keep it on the one aspect and we might just have a decent thread with good points come to a natural end rather than have to be closed down by mods.

 

 

Pushkin

 

Steady on pushkin. Read my early posts, I am dead against (fnar) the death penalty. My point was simply this - I beleive in God, and he teaches me that its wrong to kill people. From that its fair to assume that 75% of the interested parties on here do not have the christian faith, which is well known to be receeding at speed anyway. Conversely, Sharia law advocates the death penalty, and the natural association of that view with the above 75% is obvious, hence 'careful what you wish for'.

I'm still wondering where your 'stating that it is all the christians who are causing the problems to with muslims' came from? I dont hold that view, nor is martial law available in this country. And I think you meant blowing it out your ****?

[Vipa]

not half, but most. Im sure we have a few on here who through one action or another have been responsible for the taking of a life. Lets ask them how they feel knowing they killed another man (it might have been in battle or whatever).

 

 

Well.... As I was saying to 'M' just last week, the first one is the most difficult, after that it just becomes routine...

 

All the best

James

[MM]

Well.... As I was saying to 'M' just last week, the first one is the most difficult, after that it just becomes routine...

 

All the best

James

 

more like

[Ricko]

I have read the autobiographies of Albert Pierrepoint (well known hangman) and Syd Dernley (asst. hangman) and have formed the opinion that the British long drop system of execution (which dislocates the vertebrae) is a humane execution method. Other methods; 'American' style noose - strangulation & prolonged death; gas chamber - can be flawed & take too long, etc etc

In terms of the argument against the death penalty, with regard to errors made, the argument falls flat after the flawed sentencing of Timothy Evans and Derek Bentley

I voted Yes

[Vipa]

In terms of the argument against the death penalty, with regard to errors made, the argument falls flat after the flawed sentencing of Timothy Evans and Derek Bentley

 

Ricko, I don't understand what you mean here as these were both men hanged only to be found not guilty later. Surely this upholds the argument, id doesn't make it fall flat?

[Ricko]

Don't get me wrong these two cases were TERRIBLE mis-carriages of the death sentence.

But literally hundreds of people who were convicted of crimes were guilty and were hanged.

I feel that I have opened a can of worms.

Derek Bentley should never have been sentenced, he did not kill the policeman, he was convicted of the incitement to kill, a very dodgy verdict.

Timothy Evans words in the dock were, "It 'twas Christie who done it"

Pierrepoint didn't carry out the hangings of the main criminals found guilty at Nuremburg (they were hanged by the Americans by the noose method)

however he did carry out (efficiently and professionally) of other key figures: Lord Haw Haw, Irma Geese etc etc

There will always be mis-carriages of justice (re: Stefan Kiszko)

I think if there is a confession to a crime that deserves the death penalty then it should be carried out.

[Vipa]

Just one more reason that it would be foolhardy to re-introduce the death penalty!

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime...on-1917048.html

[Pushkin]

In the dark - I apologise openly for having taken your earlier post in the wrong context - I hope you accept this. :(

 

In hindsight, I think I was a bit fired up and the old brain wasn't working to its normal capacity - about medium normally.

 

Once again - apologies for taking the wrong meaning.

 

(a very contrite)Pushkin

[inthedark]

No worries, power of the written word and all that, its easy to get the wrong angle especialy on a subject as emotive as this one. :(

[kdubya]

Just one more reason that it would be foolhardy to re-introduce the death penalty!

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime...on-1917048.html

 

 

nothing new in that unfortunately, a certain forces clear up rates increased dramatically when offender's already held, seemingly confessed at will to numerous others offences perhaps the dropping of the odd wrap into a coat pocket or two helped the offenders memory. :(

 

KW

[paulf]

I would rather than see true life sentences than a death penalty. Better that criminals are incarcerated to reflect on actions IMO.

 

I would however like to see castration for paedophiles.

[kdubya]

I would however like to see castration for paedophiles.

 

 

that makes the asumption that all paedophiles are men!

 

KW

[Pushkin]

kdubya Posted Yesterday, 11:37 PM

QUOTE (paulf @ Mar 6 2010, 11:04 PM)

I would however like to see castration for paedophiles.

 

 

 

that makes the asumption that all paedophiles are men!

 

Very good point Kdubya. Interesting how many females are now being prosecuted for fiddling with guys still under 16 these days.

 

Pushkin. :(

[MPT1]

Not really. Lots of members have viewed this thread lots of times. I must have been in here for a nosey about 20 times

 

Of course, same here

[poontang]

Ronald Kray

Reginald Kray

Denis Nielson

Ian Brady

Myra Hindley

Peter Sutcliffe

Fred West

Rose West

Donald Nielson

Harold Shipman

Harry Roberts

Ian Huntley

 

Just a few names, of which there are many more, of people who are/were 100% guilty of murder. I can see no reason why any of the above couldn't have been executed. Not forgetting of course Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton, who, had they not topped themselves would now be doing time inside, instead of suffering the ultimate penalty. (Fred West and Harold Shipman obviously took the 'honourable option').

[Zapp]

Ronald Kray

Reginald Kray

 

I can see no reason why any of the above couldn't have been executed.

 

Careful, you'll have the Cockerrrneeeeyy Krays apologists going on about how "They were proper gents" and "They only 'urt their own sort".

 

ZB

[Vipa]

Ronald Kray

Reginald Kray

Denis Nielson

Ian Brady

Myra Hindley

Peter Sutcliffe

Fred West

Rose West

Donald Nielson

Harold Shipman

Harry Roberts

Ian Huntley

 

Just a few names, of which there are many more, of people who are/were 100% guilty of murder. I can see no reason why any of the above couldn't have been executed. Not forgetting of course Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton, who, had they not topped themselves would now be doing time inside, instead of suffering the ultimate penalty. (Fred West and Harold Shipman obviously took the 'honourable option').

 

Because...... Whilst I'm sure they were guilty, their assumption of guilt is based on evidence and testiomony, neither of which are absolutely without doubt, only 'beyond a reasonable doubt,' which isn't the same thing.... as I have said before 99.9% certain but not 100% certain... that .1% makes the death sentence unacceptable. If this was not the case we would never, ever see miscarriages of justice.

 

As a wild example.... The Krays... The only thing most of us on here know about the Krays is what we learned from the Hollywood movie Thier competition and enemies would have done anything to get them 'out of the picture,' and the met would have done anything to get them off the streets. Is it absolutely inconceivable or impossible that between them they 'fitted up' the Krays for a very big fall.... But then, of course, the police would never stoop so low This is the same Met who were running Soho at around the same time, the result of which was rather a large number of very senior Met officers being banged up themselves for corruption and worse etc... etc.....

 

If the Police were perfect, if forensics were infallable and if it was not possible for witnesses to lie, then, yes, the death penalty is valid but we haven't even got 1 out of 3 there! put that together with the fact that 2 wrongS do not make a right and the death penalty becomes very 'early twentieth century!'

Edited March 8, 2010 by Vipa

[henry d]

The final decision is often flawed - a flawed police service, a flawed judiciary and a flawed jury system. Tack on a bit of hanging at the end and it's quite a heady mix.

 

Oh yeah ! After hearing what my wife went through during jury service, especially when some of the jury got vital evidence wrong and making their minds up at the start of the trial, it is too flawed to take someones life.

 

She has just received her letter as a potential juror from the sheriff this week

[MPT1]

I "Knew" the Krays and saw what they were really like.

 

They were thieves ponces, with absolutely no morals. They killed and tortured their own and extorted from everyone.

The police at the time generally were in their pocket.

 

In their case by far the best punishment was being locked up. The only fault with this was that they were allowed priviliges, they should have been isolated.

Edited March 8, 2010 by MPT1

[starlight32]

Couldnt you just programme a computer to "pull the lever" after a random amount of time between 1 and 30 seconds ?

 

You could have public hangings and have them televised and the bookies could take bets on how many seconds the computer selected that week. (a bit like the national lottery)

 

I would get the bloke that does the voiceover for the National Lottery to do the voiceover too "And this weeks hanging computer is called Mildred, it has been used in 31 of 60 hangings and has hung people in 5 seconds the most amount of times etc..."

 

 

You are giving this far too much thought.

 

However I reckon Simon Cowell would be able to come up with some kind of phone poll and make a bit more cash.

 

Yes ME is reading too much into it. You just need a good old game of Deer hunter roulette, but in this case with 6 rounds in the chamber.

 

Is it too much to ask them to dig their own graves too or is that going a bit far?

 

There was a program on the the freesat titled 'A thousand ways to die'

 

There was even a bit on how to do it in a sado manner.......Might be of interest to some..........

Edited March 8, 2010 by starlight32

[PhilR]

Pleased to see Harry Roberts on the list, but John Duddy his accomplice who shot a policeman three times at point blank range should also be on it.

[Vipa]

I "Knew" the Krays and saw what they were really like.

 

They were thieves ponces, with absolutely no morals. They killed and tortured their own and extorted from everyone.

The police at the time generally were in their pocket.

 

In their case by far the best punishment was being locked up. The only fault with this was that they were allowed priviliges, they should have been isolated.

 

MPT1... I did say 'most on here' and the Kray's were a wild 'fantasy' example!'

Edited March 8, 2010 by Vipa