Gemini Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Just to throw a spanner in the works lads, but why would anyone really want to shoot a beautiful creature like a big cat, unless your life or the lives of others were at risk. No-one has ever been hurt by these cats (if they do exist) and it would seem a shame that they should be killed just because some half-wit decides he can’t afford to keep that lovely little illegal cub anymore, so releases it into the wild in order to get rid of it. I would love to see one of these cats, but as for taking a shot at one…….not without good reason (and not without a bloody big gun). G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 (edited) i have on occasion asked myself whether i would shoot one as its a bit of a dodgy area in legal terms, i have never seen one, i know those who have in the west country but not around here, however with many spottings (one of which i know was a fox not a cat as i was on the same train the same day looking at the same field) i have on 2 occasions now heard noises that i could not put a name too, it was not a deer in rutt, it was not a badger, it certainly wasnt any fox or rabbit ive ever heard, i didnt think twice about taking the safety off, didnt hang around to discover what it was, but ad it been a cat and i felt at all threatened i would rather loose my ticket or face a legal battle than be attacked (not that im sure they actually would attack unless threatened) but then im not sure what the gain (unless for safety) there would be from shooting one, unless it has taken sheep intresting topic, hope i will see one some time, just not too close Edited October 31, 2005 by dunganick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Gemini, why would anyone really want to shoot a beautiful creature like a big cat Ask that to a Gamekeeper or a sheep farmer. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Gemini- COS ITS ILLEGAL to release into the wild an animal that isn`t supposed to be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 when i was a keeper i was driving down a secluded road at three in the morning when "something" crossed the road in front of me.it stopped half way across and looked in my direction and i havent got a clue what the hell it was. it was,size wise,comparable to a german shepherd but not as tall.it moved in what i can only describe as a feline way.in the gun rack i had a .270 and a 12 bore but the last thing on my mind was shooting it.i tried to get the lamp on it but my girlfriend at the time was ******** out.this was no trick of the light and i hadnt been drinking,ive seen nearly all species in this country by lamp light and it wasnt native.only one i havent seen by lamp is water deer so if thats what it was god help stalkers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Look forward to hearing if Pavmans tale. LB Gents, As far as I known this is the scoop, A local I know with good knowledge of wildlife trust/association type deals, was approached to see if he could clarify the point of legality of shooting a big cat. The cat in question, being a Cougar. To cut a long story short, the Cat got buried…….enough said. Circumstance on it being where it was when it was are unknown to me, and I don’t know of any other sightings or even stories. I made a call to a friend and he said he both knew of the incident, was sure he knew the location and who had been involved and It was best to keep tight lipped. Some years back I worked for 6 months in Tain North East Scotland, in a local ship yard (I expect Robbo Knows of it) they had a very large population of feral cats most of which strangely had eye problems (we are talking hundreds of cats not one or two) every now and again a very big Scottish wild cat would turn up which I have seen for myself. They are just like a very big Tabby with longish ears. I guess they come down for a scrap or a sh*g or both. Obviously a Cougar is in another league altogether, but I for one am fairly sure this one is true. pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Gemini- COS ITS ILLEGAL to release into the wild an animal that isn`t supposed to be here. Yes I know, and it was also illegal to own the cub in the first place. But that doesn’t stop silly ******* like the RSPCA releasing Grey Squirrels back into the wild. This question of big cats has been around for years, and it is a bit like the Loch Ness monster. Any animal can only live for a certain length of time, after which it gets too old and succumbs to the inevitable. For these animals to perpetuate must mean that there would have to be two of them at least. And they would then have to have a family of cubs, which in turn would breed. Before too long you would have a pride of in-bred cats roaming the countryside, and that would be very noticeable. It could be that these cats are being released at different times in different areas, and that they simply forage for a few years before dying and returning to the soil. Who can say, but if there were as many of these cats as there appear to be, then sheep farmers would be loosing a hell of a lot more sheep than they are at present. I personally think that most of the sheep “Kills” are due to dogs, but it does make more of a story if a “Big cat” could be blamed. Not calling anyone a liar, because I can’t deny what you have seen, but a couple of years ago I was stunned to see a big black cat prowling along a far garden hedge. (@ 800 yds away) It appeared to be half the height of the hedge, and was moving slow and purposefully. I watched it through the scope of my rifle for a couple of minutes until it came to the gate in the hedge…..at which point it became completely obvious that it was only as tall as the bottom bar of the gate. The hedge had been cut down to @ 2 ft high and because I wasn’t able to judge the height of it, it made to cat look huge. If on the other hand any one of you should come into contact with a Puma, and are considering shooting it, then I would advise using something a bit bigger than .308. because if you should only wound it, it would become a very dangerous beast. And then humans WOULD be in imminent danger from it. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 This question of big cats has been around for years, It could be that these cats are being released at different times in different areas, and that they simply forage for a few years before dying and returning to the soil. I personally think that most of the sheep “Kills” are due to dogs, but it does make more of a story if a “Big cat” could be blamed. Not calling anyone a liar, G.M. G M Last week I would have agreed 100% with all your post, However when news like this comes to you from a very well trusted and very well known source, it makes you sit up and take notice. I would add that as far as I know the folk involved are keen to keep a lid on it and would much prefer for all of us to deem the whole thing a tall story. pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 would much prefer for all of us to deem the whole thing a tall story. Easily done. Since it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Easily done.Since it is. Lurch Your blunt statement is no doubt based on the fact that no pics or hard evidence are available at this time, which is a fair and valid point, if a tad contemptuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 would much prefer for all of us to deem the whole thing a tall story. Easily done. Since it is. I can remember the scoffing a few years ago when someone said that they had seen bloody Kangaroos in Derbyshire. It later transpired that there was a small group of Wallabies that were breeding there in the wild. :*) Nothing is impossible. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Lurch Your blunt statement is no doubt based on the fact that no pics or hard evidence are available at this time, which is a fair and valid point, if a tad contemptuous. Well there's that and the complete lack of evidence of any big cat's (baring fuzzy pictures of somebody's cat on a stone wall) living in the wild in Britain. Whilst I don't doubt that there were the odd cat loosed in the 70's the chances of a viable population remaining undiscovered are pretty much zero. Virtually all sightings/pug marks/kills have proved to be down to something altogether more boring such as the aforementioned fat cats, badgers, foxes. Anyone actually bagging one stands to make a fair pile of cash from the media, the only reason not to stand up and declare it would be use of firearms against certificate or trespass with firearms. In either of those cases I'm pretty sure that ways and means could be found around this to exploit the situation for gain. So until such time as this cat surfaces and is identified as something other than Housius Moggious I shall remain resolutely unconvinced. Of course the fact that this story emerged on All Hallows Eve doesn't help much either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I am 100% sure that big cats exist in the wild. I have never seen one but that doesn't stop me thinking that there are wild cats. The fact that there have been so many sightings over a wide area adds fuel to the fire. I think the reason no one sees them (much) is that they are far better at field craft than we are and avoid us as much as possible. They are superb animals BUT if they are a threat then they must be dealt with. As far as reporting the shootings well the reason so many don't get reported is the fact that the shooter does not not know whether it is legal or not (and the discussions on this thread prove the point) and so they are buried and the story only told to a select few. This is then whispered through the grapevine and effectively becomes an "urban legend" The average shooter is not good enough to track these animals in my opinion. I certainly could not! Only the cream of the crop, your gamekeepers and proffesionals who live it 24/7 can cope with this sort of thing. But there again I could be talking bobbins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Of course the fact that this story emerged on All Hallows Eve doesn't help much either! Lurch To be honest, I had not considered that point. I have been sitting on this for a few days debating with myself as to posting it or not. I am well aware of the ease of which such a report can be ridiculed and the timing is, I assure you coincidental. This summer I visited Reydon pits near Southwold to go fishing and disturbed a bl**dy wallaby of all things, bounded along the track in front of my Defender Mrs pavman was with me otherwise I feel sure she would have doubted it. We live near Suffolk Wildlife Park and from time to time they have break-outs, no doubt there are also private keepers of exotic breeds not just in my area but all over the country? I feel sure that most sightings could well be attributed to escaped animals. There is no reason to believe that we have a growing population of wild beasties roaming the countryside. However we should keep an open mind and I for one remain resolutely convinced that there is some fact in this one, despite the lack of hard evidence. pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I can remember a long while ago a keeper shot a cat on one of the moors down south, looked like one of them Amazon Cats, he didn't get prosecuted for it, pictures & all. And this was in the Shooting Times. As for not seeing Cougars, people in America who live among them very rarely see them. Even when hunting them with dogs, the only time is when the cat climbs the tree, away from the dogs. I believe they do, or have existed, to many sightings from a wide variety of people, granted a precentage could be wrong, but all the people cannot be wrong all the time. Recently, a sighting in the North East was recorded by a farmer, seeing it chase a deer across a field right outside his farm. A documentary, later had a guy, who had took photo's of a Cat up near the Weardale, looked like a Lynx to me. Bazooka Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 (edited) Hi, Now this is something that I have thought about lots for the past 3 years and I am 100% sure they are there. There is lots of evidence of them despite there being little video evidence. The type of people that see them are not going to have a video camera in their hand all the time due to the time of day and activities they will be doing. I have gathered several articles from The Field and Wiltshire Life and am certain they are there. Lots have been shot but the people envolved don't want lots of publicity with photos (the only certain proof) because the media would be on their doorstep for days and the photos splashed all over world. And worse some people might object to the shooting of these 'cute fluffy kitties'. ( antis) I know people that know what they saw that have seen them and so many are being seen now that when the bill that banned most exotic pets without an licence came in many were released the ones being seen now in numbers is the 10th generation as not enough are being released to keep up the numbers. Also panthers, lynx, pumas, fen tigers, bob cat and generally big cats can travel up to 40 miles in a night so when they are seen and disdurbed they will generally move on so are difficult to trap. And cats being clean by nature avoid mud so no pawprints are found and bury there droppings so none are found. Canadians rarely see their big cats maybe once or twice in a life time because they are so secretive despite there being many there. I am all for wiping them out of the British Isles because they don't belong here and there numbers will stay low for a while like all non indeginous species but might all of a sudden explode and spread like Grey Squirrels, Rabbits, and our non-native deer. And shudder to think but we can't doubt it could happen a big cat perhaps hungry or injured and unable to hunt for food starts eyeing up a toddeler in a garden and by the time this happens there might be to many to wipe out. I am just playing devils advocate but you can't deney that it can't happen. If I had more than an air rifle I would be out looking for them now but I don't so I am bravely hiding behind a computer screen typing big nasty true things about them Just adding to the conversation hope this post isn't too long. FM Edited November 1, 2005 by Ferret Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Okay, so again who would be the governing body to fine out if it is legal to run and tree them with a brace of hounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkBoy Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Okay, so again who would be the governing body to fine out if it is legal to run and tree them with a brace of hounds. Your really keen on this puma fireside rug idea aren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Mountain Lion Attacks Bazooka Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Hi, This just shows their potential and what could happen in the British countryside if there is many woundered or any in bad condition. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 The problem in hunting them with hounds, would not just be wether its legal, but gaining access to the land they might frequent. nttf, we do not have the large acreages of public land here, that you have in Canada and the USA. Almost all land above the high water mark, is owned and controlled by someone. There are fewer things better than hearing hounds calling on a hot trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country_est Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 a few years ago we went to vist some freinds who had just recently moved to a house over looking some fields. It transpired that the wife thought she saw such a beast lurking along the side of the field and reported it to plod, who came looked ect and found nowt. When she told me this and siad it was as big as my Lab, I reilesed then what she had seen was not (as reported) "the Basingstoke Panther". Having been to marwell zoo and see the big cats, they all but my Lab to shame, big thug that he is . So I think a ot of these sightings can be put down to this but a lot are also from people who are used to outdoors and seeing various animals ect. So to be honest from a eye witness I didn't believe it, but somewhere out there it could be true. Trev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted November 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Gents It’s very frustrating that more evidence of this incident are not available or from other encounters reported from various locations and by various credible witnesses. Personally I have no interest other than the fact that this was a local and isolated incident, quite why the body was not frozen whilst advise sort to preserve the evidence I don’t know, it would seem a common sense thing to do as It could still have been disposed of if the participants deemed it necessary. Let me ask you FAC holders out there, put yourself in the shoes of the game keeper who chances across a big cat on your beat out foxing, what would you do……..Not an easy answer I hazard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Shooting a big cat with a .223 or even a .22 Hornet…… ….because let’s face it, that’s what a lot of fox shooting is done with. Like I said in a previous post, “Make sure you use something bigger than .308”. Because if you use a Vmax out of a .22 centrefire then the chances are you ain’t gonna kill a big cat, and all you will end up with is a very badly injured killer. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Robert Bucknell in his book "Foxing with lamp and rifle" has an interesting photo of a fox he shot on the other side of a river,which he left to retrieve the next day and found it was 150 yds from where it was shot. In the 9 hrs it was left something had eaten everything except the head,neck and left fore leg,and as he observed the backbone etc had been eaten through and the flesh had been delicately stripped from the leg. I was a sceptic myself until one night returning from deepest darkest Fife saw an animal cross the road in front of us at 200 yds. This animal was cat like and bounded into the centre of the road and over to the other side in a fluid motion and not at all like a deer or dog.Now when I hear a tale of a cat(no pun intended) I am not in too much of a hurry to rubbish it. As for using hounds on them ....go for it,but remember to have people(marksmen)ready to shoot it Puma at 20m...Hmmm should I use BB`s or something a BIT bigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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