njc110381 Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) This thought has just crossed my mind as I answered another topic so I thought even at the risk of being shot down, I'd ask! I'm perfectly happy to kill things. I'm by no means an anti of anything but I pretty much stopped coarse fishing some years ago now. I was sat back watching the Koi in the pond one day when I was in my teens and wondered, why do we go out and drag these poor animals out of the water just to see how big they are then put them back? I pictured myself walking into a pub next to a nice river and getting a tasty steak delivered to my table. I take a bite and it's nice so I carry on. Then I pick up an onion ring that stands out as better than the rest and take a big bite. All of a sudden I'm off out of the door, dragged by my head by a force much stronger than me yet I can't see it. Then I'm in the river being dragged under. It sounds like a scene from a low budget horror movie! That's what happens to the fish! Now, if you're eating it then I guess there's no food without a moment of sufferring but to do it just for fun just isn't my thing any more. I have the odd day when that thought disappears into the background and go off doing a day of Piking etc, but afterwards I always feel bad. Has anyone else ever felt that way? I'm quite happy to shoot a bunny or even a Fox or Deer but there seems to be a purpose for that. Whether it's for pest control or for the pot it has a purpose. What's the purpose of coarse fishing apart from to entertain us? I feel that this question would drag up screams of "TROLL" if I was a newbie but I've been here long enough now for you all to know that's not the case. I'm not trying to stir an arguement or suggest people shouldn't go fishing, I'm just interested to know if anyone else shares my views? Edited May 18, 2010 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 With supporters like you around, God help field sports. You'll be manning one of those "anti" tables parked in the High Street next, haranguing passers-by with lurid tales of animal cruelty. (And you'll get the same gobful off me as they get). Be careful what you wish for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3xspringer Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I love my fly fishing ok [its not course fishing] but eat most of the catch, The line you are going down ref suffering what about the pricked birds and rabbits ect that drag there self off?? [can of worms here] no pun intended.I fish and shoot love them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I don't think the steak eating analogy is particularly useful, fish are fish and don't think like humans. They live, they get caught, they get released and they live on untraumatised. Or they live, they get caught, the get killed and they get eaten. Either is prefectly acceptable to me thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsm1968 Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I have used this argument in a conversation with an anti - shooting, sport fisherman. He could not see the quick humane disatch with a rifle as better over fighting a fish for hours. Only to kill it when it is dragged out the water exhausted. That said I don't realy have a problem with sport fishing, as I'm told the ones that are released don't suffer long term effects, hence some fisheries have large fish that are caught time after time. The ones that go on a plate are not wasted either. I do think it is un-ethical when the likes of sharks are caught, killed and thown away. All for a picture on the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Is this the LACS website? Have I logged on to the wrong one by mistake? Oh, it's a shooting forum Well, roger me with a stiff wire brush, I thought I was in with a bunch of vegan mincers there for a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Is this the LACS website? Have I logged on to the wrong one by mistake? Oh, it's a shooting forum Well, roger me with a stiff wire brush, I thought I was in with a bunch of vegan mincers there for a minute. yep, not a fishing forum :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I don't hide behind the fact that I am doing it for pest control or feeding people, I do it because I enjoy it. I enjoy stalking, fishing, ferreting, shooting and when it was legal, coursing. I eat meat, most of which I have killed myself and therefore know where it has come from. Without peoples interest in fishing and hunting there would be no economical gain and benefit for other wildlife. Anglers pay for a licence which goes to the upkeep of our water ways, not the canoeist, not the people in yachts, but Anglers. Recreational fishing brings in alot of revenue for the country. Also which I think is rife these days is the belief that people can comment that their sport is more 'humane' than others. This is the problem which will kill off all the fieldsports. It's a modern pc thinking thing. Animals live their lives looking out for danger, they do not sit there stressed and they don't watch films trying to scare themselves because that is what they live eveyday. You sound like a typical anti and would probably say 'how would you like it!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I have used this argument in a conversation with an anti - shooting, sport fisherman. He could not see the quick humane disatch with a rifle as better over fighting a fish for hours. Only to kill it when it is dragged out the water exhausted. That said I don't realy have a problem with sport fishing, as I'm told the ones that are released don't suffer long term effects, hence some fisheries have large fish that are caught time after time. The ones that go on a plate are not wasted either. I do think it is un-ethical when the likes of sharks are caught, killed and thown away. All for a picture on the wall. Where does that happen? That hasn't happened for years, all catches are eaten or released these days. People bang on about sport fisherman but no one moans about the commercials that actually bring less to the economy and take the most fish and cause the most damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 If you ever picture yourself sitting in a field and it suddenly goes dark you've been head shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Man has fished since time began.The only fish issue which p&**es me off is where trawlers throw back perfectly good fish,often dead because it is the wrong sort/the daft EU Quota system that is a waste and a crime.If a fish is caught and eaten great,if it is caught/properly handled and returned thats great too. Personally I have not fished since I was a child but I shall defend the right to fish...It is another fantastic way to get out into peaceful countryside and enjoy life rather than sit in vacuous wingeing w(h)ine (sic) bars worrying about how fish feel. Fishing is a country pursuit to most and a living to some the thought of a ban is simply daft. If you personally worry about how the fish feels don't fish simple,as a child I had a pet Jackdaw so personally don't shoot jackdaws but I 'll shoot a magpie/crow without a second thought...thats my personal freedom and choice,lets defend these freedoms so people have their choices too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 It's a bad day for field sports when we start feeding the antis with ammo to use against other field sports I learnt a lesson in this from our very own Neil Smith of PSG fame. I used to find it amusing to put down PSG publicly and Neil, ambassador for the sport that he is, would point out (calmly and civilly) that it wasn't in shootings best interests to be having a pop at each other. I had to agree This is worse. It's not just **********, it's supplying the antis with support for what they claim. There is no worthwhile scientific evidence that fish (cold-blooded animals) feel pain in the same way as mammals, or emotions, fear, stress etc etc. It's just fluffy bunny thinking, assuming that these animals feel things just like we do. Like somebody has already said, if it makes you squirm, don't go fishing, but do us a favour and shut the **** up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 NO Fishing isn't cruel, It is no different to you stalking a deer or rabbit and then shooting it. Obviously you never miss or wound an animal and every shot you take is a head shot which kills whatever instantly. Leave it out and leave this alone, with people like you around the LACS can take it easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) I'm not saying I'm anti fishing like some of you suggest. I'm just bringing up a subject which I've given a great deal of thought. I enjoy shooting things and I'm not trying to hide behind reasoning for it. The fact is though there is a reason other than sport and nobody can tell me there isn't. I had a feeling this might kick off and maybe I shouldn't have posted it, but why can't we all sit back and have a reasonable debate? Is there actually any evidence that repeated dragging from the water doesn't bother these big Carp? They still swim around and eat as they did before, but then so do the majority of the people in the local mental hospital! Man is a natural hunter and we enjoy catching and killing things. My question was whether or not anyone else thinks the coarse fishing is a bit unfair as there's no real reason for it. Using the revenue card doesn't cut it for me. I could eat three for a tenner Chickens but I don't. I don't think money is a good enough reason to make nature suffer. I think there's a big difference between not doing it myself and helping the case to get it banned. If I ever heard of that sort of thing going on I'd be dead against it. My attitude is if you don't like it don't do it, but keep your nose out of other peoples hobbies! Edited May 18, 2010 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesman Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Agree with magman. Headshot = dead. It's not a psychological thriller a la Hitchcock. The animals aren't ruthlessly tormented. Also agree with Chard..... Shhhhhhh! We should stick together. Fishermen provide a lot of income and do lots for waterways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I'm not saying I'm anti fishing like some of you suggest. I'm just bringing up a subject which I've given a great deal of thought. I enjoy shooting things and I'm not trying to hide behind reasoning for it. The fact is though there is a reason other than sport and nobody can tell me there isn't. I had a feeling this might kick off and maybe I shouldn't have posted it, but why can't we all sit back and have a reasonable debate? Is there actually any evidence that repeated dragging from the water doesn't bother these big Carp? They still swim around and eat as they did before, but then so do the majority of the people in the local mental hospital! Man is a natural hunter and we enjoy catching and killing things. My question was whether or not anyone else thinks the coarse fishing is a bit unfair as there's no real reason for it. Using the revenue card doesn't cut it for me. I could eat three for a tenner Chickens but I don't. I don't think money is a good enough reason to make nature suffer. I think there's a big difference between not doing it myself and helping the case to get it banned. If I ever heard of that sort of thing going on I'd be dead against it. My attitude is if you don't like it don't do it, but keep your nose out of other peoples hobbies! REALLY? I would say your attitude is very far from that! I don't fox hunt, yet I don't post saying that is cruel or there is no real reason for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Its actually an Interesting question but NJC you are giving fish a lot of credit and human like emotions and feelings. To the uninitiated some of the catch and release ponds are questionable with named fish coming out every other week, as for most fishing I can't see it being any different to shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesman Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Do you oppose driven shooting? Or even shooting where you may notcome home with everything you've shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) I'm posting my opinion. Do you really think that what I say here will influence the antis any more? You either support something or oppose it and what I say is going to make no difference what so ever! I'm interested in hearing peoples views on how they think fish feel when they are caught. They may not feel anything, I don't know which is the point of posting! I was looking for opinions, not insults and arguements. EDIT... Wesman, no I don't. If it doesn't get eaten by the shooter it will go off to the game dealer and be sold. I have nothing against that as it promotes game to people who don't shoot and gets put to good use. Edited May 18, 2010 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I'm going to retrain as a Fish Therapist. Then Colin Cod can tell me his innermost feelings on the subject. I've been on the receiving end of the "fishing is cruel" brigade twice now. Once in Kent, which turned violent :lol: and the other in North Wales, where the antis were convinced that it would be in their best interests to **** off. They did, but they did a few grands worth of damage to anglers cars on their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I wondered why you were kicking off so strongly Chard. I can kind of see your point now but my post isn't going to fuel that is it. Do you really think an anti is going to appreciate the input of someone who shoots fluffy bunnies with rifles that are considered on the large side for Deer? I've never liked it when people actively go against things they don't understand or agree with. That's not something I would ever do. My dad is the match secretary for the local fishing club and I help with the bank and weed clearing every year. I'm by no means an anti, I just don't go fishing myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Animals are tormented all the time, why does it matter if it is from hunting, habitat dextruction or natural predators. Anti's, if they really cared about animals would look at the bigger picture, but they don't, all they care about is making themselves feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popgun Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 No Fishing isn't crule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 No, Coarse fishing isnt cruel. I have seen the same fish come out within a few hours, and the Carp boys on my local water often see the same Carp come out to different anglers in the same competition. Their either daft, stupid, or it doesnt bother them. Fish away............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyflier Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 AL4X, can you change your avatar...................... I keep getting distracted Cheers Back to topic, why post the question about fishing being cruel on a pro hunting site if there is no alterior motive to the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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