28gm 7.5's for woodies?

[nat088]

I use a 20 bore an shoot gamebore pure gold 28g 7's in fibre. Inside 40 yards pigeons crows rabbits etc dont stand a chance. I go to 5's on pheasants an roost shooting in winter an thats because of the height an speed of the incoming birds. If you can feel or genuinely notice the difference between a 7 an a 6 decoying then you should be doing it for a living!

[motty]

I use a 20 bore an shoot gamebore pure gold 28g 7's in fibre. Inside 40 yards pigeons crows rabbits etc dont stand a chance. I go to 5's on pheasants an roost shooting in winter an thats because of the height an speed of the incoming birds. If you can feel or genuinely notice the difference between a 7 an a 6 decoying then you should be doing it for a living!

 

I totally agree!

[wymberley]

Hi,

If you read what b682 has said, pause for a minute and just accept what he means overall, he has a point. Can't comment on what Pegleg said as he mentions no shot size. Nat and Motty, who agrees with him, also have a point. BASC #6 is not set in stone, it's a guideline and with, perhaps, a bit less choke and a slightly reduced range (than #6, not the 40yds) #7 will also do the business admirably The remark about a living adds nothing to the debate and would have been better if left unsaid.

Coming back to the OP and b682's comment. Decoying with, say, a fairly open choke of 1/4 and using 1oz of 71/2, at 30yds on average a pigeon will likely be hit on average with 10 pellets. Is that sporting and is the bird fit for the table? No and no. With 14,000 pigeons shot to date this year by PW members and which is only the tip of the iceberg it won't be long before the rabbit holes and hedgerows are full and overflowing and the inedible carnage in full view of Joe Public.

Consequently, b682 DOES have a point and one worthy of consideration.

Cheers

[Paul223]

I went out yesterday eve and shot 18 pigeons from 6.30 til 8.00, took gamebore blue diamond 7.5's on purpose, they worked very well right out to 35 yards, on crowning and cleaning the birds up I was quite surprised at the level of shot penetration, some pellets going clean through the breast, bone, organs or cavity, bone, breast and lodging under the skin on the exit side quite a few had just entry and exit, and these where birds I'd put to one side, shot at the far range I'll post some pics later

[pegleg31]

Hi,

If you read what b682 has said, pause for a minute and just accept what he means overall, he has a point. Can't comment on what Pegleg said as he mentions no shot size. Nat and Motty, who agrees with him, also have a point. BASC #6 is not set in stone, it's a guideline and with, perhaps, a bit less choke and a slightly reduced range (than #6, not the 40yds) #7 will also do the business admirably The remark about a living adds nothing to the debate and would have been better if left unsaid.

Coming back to the OP and b682's comment. Decoying with, say, a fairly open choke of 1/4 and using 1oz of 71/2, at 30yds on average a pigeon will likely be hit on average with 10 pellets. Is that sporting and is the bird fit for the table? No and no. With 14,000 pigeons shot to date this year by PW members and which is only the tip of the iceberg it won't be long before the rabbit holes and hedgerows are full and overflowing and the inedible carnage in full view of Joe Public.

Consequently, b682 DOES have a point and one worthy of consideration.

Cheers

 

 

sorry i think they are 7's maybe 7.5's but i use them on driven day's to great affect.if you are killing cleanly and confident with a cartridge stick to it

[webber]

I've shot Eley HB pigeon, 32gm, 6.5s for woodies for years, and would not dream of changing, or utilising a clay busting load.

 

To try and add something to this debate, I've visited the website of Hull Cartridge Co, and selected the two attached charts which indicate the given velocity in M/sec at a given distance. Its worth a look.

 

The bottom line is; the smaller the pellet, the lower the terminal velocity, and therefore due to the lower weight of the smaller pellet ,results in less energy being imparted into the shot bird or clay as the case may be. Please remember that it takes a lot less energy to break a clay cleanly, than it does to kill a pigeon cleanly; its horses for courses. McF proved this many years ago when he only had some snazzy 8s Browning cartridges. Hitting the pigeon was not a problem, getting them to play dead for long enough to pick was another matter. Sorry chaps, been there, done that, no thanks. We have a duty of care to kill cleanly, please don't forget that.

 

Have a look at the two links, see what you think.

http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/products/ga...l_pigeon_12.cfm

 

http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/products/co...n/pro_fibre.cfm

 

webber

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

I've shot Eley HB pigeon, 32gm, 6.5s for woodies for years, and would not dream of changing, or utilising a clay busting load.

 

To try and add something to this debate, I've visited the website of Hull Cartridge Co, and selected the two attached charts which indicate the given velocity in M/sec at a given distance. Its worth a look.

 

The bottom line is; the smaller the pellet, the lower the terminal velocity, and therefore due to the lower weight of the smaller pellet ,results in less energy being imparted into the shot bird or clay as the case may be. Please remember that it takes a lot less energy to kill a pigeon cleanly, than it does to break a clay; its horses for courses. McF proved this many years ago when he only had some snazzy 8s Browning cartridges. Hitting the pigeon was not a problem, getting them to play dead for long enough to pick was another matter. Sorry chaps, been there, done that, no thanks. We have a duty of care to kill cleanly, please don't forget that.

 

Have a look at the two links, see what you think.

http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/products/ga...l_pigeon_12.cfm

 

http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/products/co...n/pro_fibre.cfm

 

webber

 

Quality post IMO Webber

 

Regards OTH

[pegleg31]

I've shot Eley HB pigeon, 32gm, 6.5s for woodies for years, and would not dream of changing, or utilising a clay busting load.

 

To try and add something to this debate, I've visited the website of Hull Cartridge Co, and selected the two attached charts which indicate the given velocity in M/sec at a given distance. Its worth a look.

 

The bottom line is; the smaller the pellet, the lower the terminal velocity, and therefore due to the lower weight of the smaller pellet ,results in less energy being imparted into the shot bird or clay as the case may be. Please remember that it takes a lot less energy to kill a pigeon cleanly, than it does to break a clay; its horses for courses. McF proved this many years ago when he only had some snazzy 8s Browning cartridges. Hitting the pigeon was not a problem, getting them to play dead for long enough to pick was another matter. Sorry chaps, been there, done that, no thanks. We have a duty of care to kill cleanly, please don't forget that.

 

Have a look at the two links, see what you think.

http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/products/ga...l_pigeon_12.cfm

 

http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/products/co...n/pro_fibre.cfm

 

webber

 

 

 

webber you're a star

 

from your link i've just noticed that hull do a 6.5 load in sovereign fitasc so nthe next time i buy some cartridges i'll try these and see how i get on

 

 

must say though 7's work well and i would'nt use them if they did'nt and i did'nt know they did them in 6.5's

 

thanx again

russ

[Dekers]

I'm sure it's mainly down to how accurate the shooter is and as a shooter who once used 6's for pigeons i can say that 28gm 7.5's are no better or worse when it comes to dispatching birds in the air!

 

I'm struggling with that response on a number of levels...just where do you think it makes a difference...BB-21g 9's

 

YES...that has a lot to do with it but 7.5 don't carry their energy as well as 6 and the volume of shot is irrelevant unless the quarry is CLOSE, If you can't shoot straight you will ***** more with 7.5 than 6.

 

So....

 

Why do the manufacturers bother making all the different sizes of shot and loads?

 

[Catamong]

Yes, I'm with Webber and OTH on this one, of course 28, 24 and even 21 gram loads will kill pigeons, and plenty of them stone dead out to about 25 yards, but simple physics dictates that you will kill more pigeons when using a heavier load, that's not a matter of my opinion, it's a fact.

 

My Farmer friends expect me to try and kill every pigeon that comes within a 50 yard radius of my hide, I can only guarantee to do this by using a sensible load of minimum 30gram 6's. I also don't make the mistake of putting my hide right under a tree as it restricts my field of fire, and I also generally shoot standing up, for the same reason.

 

Cat.

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

Also the boys who are shooting the 7.5s 28 grams and smaller whats your average cart to kill ratio??

 

Will be intresting reading IMO.

 

Mine with 6s in 32gram or 30 gram during the summer is roughly between 70 to 75 birds to ever 100 cartridges.

 

Regards OTH

Edited July 22, 2010 by Over the hill

[pegleg31]

can honestly say with 28g 7's on driven days i've got a kill ratio of 2/3:1

[UKPoacher]

Also the boys who are shooting the 7.5s 28 grams and smaller whats your average cart to kill ratio??

 

Will be intresting reading IMO.

 

Mine with 6s in 32gram or 30 gram during the summer is roughly between 70 to 75 birds to ever 100 cartridges.

 

Regards OTH

 

Surely this depends on whether you hit them or not? Not very scientific unless you ask what are the differences in 6's to 7.5's in each individual shooter's shots to kill ratio.

 

 

can honestly say with 28g 7's on driven days i've got a kill ratio of 2/3:1

 

Yeah. I'm a **** shot too

[webber]

Also the boys who are shooting the 7.5s 28 grams and smaller whats your average cart to kill ratio??

 

Will be intresting reading IMO.

 

Mine with 6s in 32gram or 30 gram during the summer is roughly between 70 to 75 birds to ever 100 cartridges.

 

Regards OTH

 

 

Gents

 

When you consider answering this question, please remember that we are talking cartridge to KILL ratio, not hit ratio, there is a difference! Hitting a clay is classed as a kill. Killing a pigeon means that it hits the ground DEAD.

 

webber

[pegleg31]

Surely this depends on whether you hit them or not? Not very scientific unless you ask what are the differences in 6's to 7.5's in each individual shooter's shots to kill ratio.

 

 

 

 

Yeah. I'm a **** shot too

 

 

 

to say a 3:1 shot ratio is classed as good i'm happy

[Paul223]

Pics as promised, a little dark but you should be able to make them out

 

First pic, one piece of shot under the skin, if you look down the right side you see 3 entry holes, and on the left 2 exit and the piece of shot, that piece of shot had travelled through the breast, the bone, the cavity just by a few mill ( organs?) bone and breast again, not bad for 7.5 shot at 30 + yards, this bird also hard a broken wing and several pieces of shot side on into its back which had penetrated through to the organs

the bit of shot out

 

And at about the same range these two bits of shot were lodged under the skin after passing through breast, bone and breast again, no lack of penetration and to be fair most of the closer birds were two sets of holes and smashed up organs I'm very surprised as i've always used 6's or 7's

The dog picked all of them bar those that got hung up in a tree and only two or three needed to be coshed, 18 for a 26 shots, i don't do a lot of pigeon shooting so you tell me, is that acceptable :o

Edited July 24, 2010 by Paul223

[dodeer]

I started using Sovereign 1oz fibre 6.5's for my pigeon shooting and have been very pleased. Fast, smooth and hard hitting and a bonus that I can use them for everything now, clays, game days, rabbits etc.

[swiss.tony]

i like 3inch magnums on pigeons lot better kill than 7.5

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

I dont think there is any real science to what shot size for live pigeon shooting as each has there own views.

 

The only thing I would say as a pigeon shooter who has for the last ten years shot 8 to 10 thouasand birs per year .

 

Is that if I am shooting a 6s either 30 for summer 32s for winter I have the gear and weaponary to take birds out at 40 yards plus on average at distance on regular basis with clean kills ,more than say a shooter with 28inch barrels and 28grams of 7.5s .

 

We all know the days when birds track pass the deeks at 40 yards which is more often than pulling into the deeks 25 yards out.

 

The thing is if on the rare occasions I am shooting to heavier a load for the situ I can move and take the birds at the ulimate range .

 

But if you are shooting and the birds are out at 40 yards plus you know that trying to get the birds closer is just sometime impossable.

 

To me this why birds are becoming more diffcult to shoot and wary, not because of shooting pressure but alot of pricked unkilled birds are surviving rouge light pellets shot by shooters.

 

Regards OTH

Edited July 24, 2010 by Over the hill

[swiss.tony]

ps it was a joke use ing magnums my fav it my smith and westen 6 shot cap gun witch fire s darts can take a pigeon out at 95 yard flyin lol

[wymberley]

I dont think there is any real science to what shot size for live pigeon shooting as each has there own views.

 

The only thing I would say as a pigeon shooter who has for the last ten years shot 8 to 10 thouasand birs per year .

 

Is that if I am shooting a 6s either 30 for summer 32s for winter I have the gear and weaponary to take birds out at 40 yards plus on average at distance on regular basis with clean kills ,more than say a shooter with 28inch barrels and 28grams of 7.5s .

 

We all know the days when birds track pass the deeks at 40 yards which is more often than pulling into the deeks 25 yards out.

 

The thing is if on the rare occasions I am shooting to heavier a load for the situ I can move and take the birds at the ulimate range .

 

But if you are shooting and the birds are out at 40 yards plus you know that trying to get the birds closer is just sometime impossable.

 

To me this why birds are becoming more diffcult to shoot and wary, not because of shooting pressure but alot of pricked unkilled birds are surviving rouge light pellets shot by shooters.

 

Regards OTH

OTH, thanks.

Although I can only dream of shooting one tenth of what you do, until I read your post and with all this 25 to 30 yard nonsense, I was beginning to think that I'd been doing it wrong all these years. You have described my idea of pigeon shooting to a "T"

Cheers

[redthunder]

I only use 32g 6 or 5 in fibre rottweil 32f 28g are ******* shiite on pigeons there for clays. Try shooting pigeons 45-55 yards out with 28g and you'll not have many

[wymberley]

I only use 32g 6 or 5 in fibre rottweil 32f 28g are ******* shiite on pigeons there for clays. Try shooting pigeons 45-55 yards out with 28g and you'll not have many

Fine cartridge the Rottweil, used to use the 2.5mm. As I dont shoot too many pigeon (see above) I was able to afford some Supreme Game 28g 2.5mm. When you think about it, give or take, these have the same number of pellets as 32g no6. The little Churchill seems to love them. I am a somewhat knackered pensioner and with that combination am shooting as well as I ever have and my kill ratio is about 90+%. Careful selection of your equipment is far more meaningful than sheer bulk. Yep, OK I have to say that I stay within your lower range but to say that 28g is as you describe is misguided at least.

Cheers

[motty]

I only use 32g 6 or 5 in fibre rottweil 32f 28g are ******* shiite on pigeons there for clays. Try shooting pigeons 45-55 yards out with 28g and you'll not have many

 

A 28 gram cartridge is more than enough for pigeon. If we are talking about shooting pigeons at extreme range, why don't we all just use 42gm 4 or 5?

I use more 28gm 7.5 than anything else on woodies these days- mainly because of price. I can't really tell any difference between these and the 30gm 6's i also use. If we're talking about shooting pigeons at normal decoying ranges ( 35-40 yards) then 28gm 7.5 will perform. I would ask all the doubters to actually try a smaller load for a couple of hundred shots and then make a judgement. By the way,my ratio is around 1.5 shots per dead bird normally, on a good day around 1.2 but very rarely over 2.

[Dekers]

I dont think there is any real science to what shot size for live pigeon shooting as each has there own views.

 

The only thing I would say as a pigeon shooter who has for the last ten years shot 8 to 10 thouasand birs per year .

 

Is that if I am shooting a 6s either 30 for summer 32s for winter I have the gear and weaponary to take birds out at 40 yards plus on average at distance on regular basis with clean kills ,more than say a shooter with 28inch barrels and 28grams of 7.5s .

 

We all know the days when birds track pass the deeks at 40 yards which is more often than pulling into the deeks 25 yards out.

 

The thing is if on the rare occasions I am shooting to heavier a load for the situ I can move and take the birds at the ulimate range .

 

But if you are shooting and the birds are out at 40 yards plus you know that trying to get the birds closer is just sometime impossable.

 

To me this why birds are becoming more diffcult to shoot and wary, not because of shooting pressure but alot of pricked unkilled birds are surviving rouge light pellets shot by shooters.

 

Regards OTH

 

 

Those numbers are big, at 10,000, that equates to 27 birds EVERY day of the year, that takes some doing!!