just a question:

[scotland rifles]

I can't believe just how much we are being asked to pay for glass.( i can't afford them and will never pay that kind of money as long as the hole in my bottom is still there.)

 

I am not here to scupper anyone's sale of a nice scope i am just thinking that most of the prices i read and see on site is down right scary.

 

whats your thoughts guys and girls.

 

bob.

[apache]

I suppose it's like anything. If I had the money I'd probably drive a Range Rover, but I haven't and I don't. Our old rusty Polo gets us places, just not in as much comfort as the RR.

 

If I had the money for a £1000+ scope I might go for it. Especially on a deer/fox rifle that was going to be used over quite long distances. Can't see any point on a little air rifle @ 40m!

[gixer1]

I found there to be very little difference when I changed from a nikon buck master and a Edgar brothers to a swaro, until you get to dusky low light... then you see where the price difference comes from , although overall I would say we pay too much when I saw the prices of the same scopes and bins in the USA.

 

Regards

 

Gixer

[markm]

Yes and no.

 

Take for example a quality 6x42 scope at £500.

 

Now go to 8x56 (same make/model) at £650.

 

What more do you get except

 

a few gms of aluminium (they will both me milled / cut on a lathe from similar size block.

 

The lens still need grinding, polishing etc and are probably cut from the same size of glass and will have had less material cut away.

 

 

I also think the manufacturers are wise that people are willing to pay a lot more for vari's and are over priced.

 

If however you compare a cheapo to a quality brand, the difference is 10 fold.

Edited August 26, 2010 by markm

[Mr_Logic]

the difference in practical terms is somewhere in the range of about 20 minutes extra shooting at the end and start of a day. I think they're clearer on the lamp too. However, the price difference is large.

 

I stick with Leupold myself, sort of an in-between level and works nicely for me (except on CZ 527s due to eye relief!)

[DaveK]

If Carlsberg made telescopic sights they'd be called Swarovski.

 

I think it's pretty much been said already but here's my two pennorth.

 

.22rf - Tasco World Class does the job at .22 rimmy distances and under the lamp

.17hmr - Simmons WTC does an excellent job

.243 - MTC Viper also does a good job and is comparable to the Simmons

.223 - Swaro PV-S outclasses and outglasses all of the others and every other scope I have ever owned (and I've owned a few).

 

Cost wise, Not sure Bob. Obviously I was prepared to pay the going rate and could afford it at the time so why not? And I haven't ever regretted it. Where I do draw the line (but each to his own) is putting the likes of S&B/swaro/Zeiss et al on .22rimmys. Afford it or not, that's a total waste of money.

[Jim Sarakun]

I agree, too expensive, over here anyway. Trawl the US. web sites and save a few bob. Even if you get clobbered for tax and duty it still works out cheaper, unless you get the seller to state that it is used of course, a whole different category for used kit.

[al4x]

Its an interesting discussion and personally I can't justify the new prices but the second hand ones aren't too bad, I've a S&B 8x56 paid £325 for it I think and for foxing it has accounted for a fair few I wouldn't have shot with the previous scope. At low light the difference is massive and if there is moon about you can almost shoot all night with no lamp. Shot one at 10:30 on Monday at 140 yards with no lamp and I certainly wouldn't have done that with my previous scope

[snowz]

i think it's just down to personal choice, if you can afford it and justify it then spend it i say.

 

i haven't had rifles for long and started with cheap scopes, i now have had a couple of more expensive ones and now on to a Zeiss and all i can say is you get what you paid for, cheap is cheap for a reason, buy cheap buy twice.

 

Quality optics cost a reasonable amount compared to cheaper branded scopes

 

Bob, a lot / most of your posts on all the forums i see you on are to do with scopes, you are always selling or looking to swap your scopes for better ones, you normally have mid range quality scopes good enough for the job (apart from the S&B's you had ) dont you think if you had the money or could justify it for the top quality glass you want you'd go straight out and buy it?

[Raja Clavata]

Just like everything else the law of diminishing returns applies as you go up the scale.

 

Trouble is if you shoot with something lower in quality say than a Leupold and then put one of those or S&B, Swaro, Zeiss etc. on one of your rifles then you WILL (or at least) should see the difference (if you don't good luck to you and save your dosh). Once you have one you are likely to want more!?

 

I'm no expert in optics manufacture but would think the number of lenses in a variable scope compared to that of a fixed entail quite a bit more assembly and parts costs. Agree they appear crazy expensive at the top end and we seem to get a bum deal compared to US prices (which is more than a tad frustrating).

 

As regards used scope pricing I thought the defacto standard was once secondhand (ie. used) it's worth 67% of new price maximum and less if tatty etc. That does not always seem to apply here though

 

As said already it's personal, bought a couple cheap ones to start off which got dumped - fitting first S&B on my HMR was a revelation. I ain't no snob but wouldn't entertain anything sub Leupold unless I really had to...

[ellebarto]

I agree, too expensive, over here anyway. Trawl the US. web sites and save a few bob. Even if you get clobbered for tax and duty it still works out cheaper, unless you get the seller to state that it is used of course, a whole different category for used kit.

 

They have closed that loophole now. My Mrs, cunning devious female that she is, read the law on it and the best way, if you can agree it with the seller (Try using ebay.com and finding a shop selling through it) is to get them to mark the invoice on hte packaging as $1 and Trade sample. They cant charge duty on it then, well only on the dollar anyway!

[ellebarto]

From my limited knowledge its purely down to low light conditions. In good ight I cant see a £600 difference between a £150 Hawke and an £800 Leo (which is the most I can justify spending)

 

As soon as the sun starts to go down or I put the lamp on then thats money well spent!

[lasbrisas]

I'm intersted in this subject because I have just got into full bore target shooting. Most people at the club use nightforce scopes which are around the £1500 mark. I have been advised to get one with a thin reticule so it doesn't mask the target but can't afford those kind of prices. If low levels of light is the issue then I guess I wouldn't have this problem. Magnification is what I need, probably 30x upwards.

[jcf1]

More time at dusk shooting from quality glass. BUT there is a lot of **** glass that is VERY expensive. I have 2 old jap tascos that I have compared side by side till dusk with £2000 leupolds and S&B. I can genuinely say that there is NO difference in one and very little difference (maybe 10 minutes extra shooting at dimpsy) with my Tasco euro-class and the leupold red mist I had a side by side comparison with at the same target at 200m. Certainly not worth the £1200 difference... Not saying the leupold was **** but you need to spend a LOT more these days for decent lenses.

 

If you want cheap class glass, get an old jap tasco is my advice. Older model titans, euroclass, or even the old high country although not jap, are all very very good IMO.

Edited August 27, 2010 by jcf1

[Traztaz]

German glass is aimed at being capable of shooting only with moon light as that is all we are allowed to use, no lamps/ image intensifiers here. For that reason alone it will be and is better in low light. I have shot for many years both in Uk and here in Germany, and can say without hesitation that quality German glass is the best. If you can use a lamp then many far subrefior scopes will give you a shootable image, shooting black pig against a dark background under moonlight is near impossible with anything but the best.

The comment about fitting good glass to a .22 is well justified, what a waste of money.

[theredbaron]

I recently had a look through a March scope, a hand made second mortgage job, the clarity was as amazing as the price

[lasbrisas]

I recently had a look through a March scope, a hand made second mortgage job, the clarity was as amazing as the price

 

Yeah a chap at the club showed me his new March scope last night, £2500 it cost him

Edited August 27, 2010 by lasbrisas

[scotland rifles]

Well lads as ever a varied reply from lots of you. one thing we all seem to have in common be it scottish or English etc etc

 

we are getting a tad ripped off here in the UK and we have been for so long we just accept it.

 

i have had/have/used most of the big names and apart from 2 brand names that i dislike for both price and optical quality the rest are so marked up here it makes me sick.

 

anyway time to head home from the sticks.

 

keep those thoughts coming

 

bob.

[jamie g]

Well lads as ever a varied reply from lots of you. one thing we all seem to have in common be it scottish or English etc etc

 

we are getting a tad ripped off here in the UK and we have been for so long we just accept it.

 

i have had/have/used most of the big names and apart from 2 brand names that i dislike for both price and optical quality the rest are so marked up here it makes me sick.

 

anyway time to head home from the sticks.

 

keep those thoughts coming

 

bob.

 

we are allways getting ripped off in this country bob. its allways been the case. this country rely so much on the import on different stuff now they have you over a barrel with your pants pulled down.

 

i see some dies for sale for the 222 the other day 3 die redding set $60 whats that £35 to £40ish pound in our money. over here to buy there £75 + it doesnt help that the shops charge silly postage for small items to.

 

as for the scopes it it takes abit of time owning a couple to see the real difference in them. just looking at them in a shop doesnt do much for the eye. out in the field in the day then on the lamp after a little bit.

 

you can see the difference. i thnik the conquest for the money is the best scope you could want for shooting. its light, great glass, good under the lamp and could be had for around £400 over here. because people want these scopes now because there superb for the money its pushed the prices up to £500 £550 for one.

 

i got my conquest for £500 and the victory for £1300. is it worth the extra £800 over the conquest.

 

i would say yes and no ! it wont shoot me anymore foxes. its heavier, and need the right mounts to fit the rifle as its a 56 mm fron lens.

 

but yes at the same time as top end scopes hold there money, it has better glass then the conquest. much better in fact. on full mag at 24 its dead clear right to the outside of the glass. where the conquest on 20 mag is still good but not as clear as the victory.

 

the victory is better in last light to before the dark sets. and under the lamp its stunning. not only can you see the fox at long range but you can allso make out the detail on his fur.

the ir rectical is handy against a dark back ground.. i could have sold the conquest for around £550 but sold it to my dad for £500 this helpped me out with the victory price. but also fell well as i still get to use it..

 

i dont think your get a scope as clear as the conquest for 500 notes.

Edited August 27, 2010 by jamie g

[strix]

Yes, without doubt, you can buy things in the USA for much less than here in the UK but the only way you can really beat the system is to have a friend over there to buy it for you and to mail it to you by the cheapest method available. Even then you can get hit by Import tax and VAT duty and then it may no longer seem such a bargain.

 

But if you know someone who is coming over here for a visit, on holiday etc then you will win out.

See these two examples of things which are on sale offer (at the moment) in the States but for which no one in the UK could or would match the prices:

 

First the Simmons WTC from Midwayusa.com

 

Simmons Whitetail Classic Rifle Scope 6.5-20x 50mm Adjustable Objective Truplex Reticle Matte

Product #: 746570

Status: Available

4.80 stars

$249.99 $109.99 Save $140.00 (=£70.68)

 

For genuine Wrangler jeans (and they are top quality denim - heavy duty and made in America not in the far East) from Sheplers: www.sheplers.com/

 

Wrangler Jeans - 936 Slim Fit Rigid

+ Add to Wish List

Item # 010367

Original Price $24.99

$22.99

Save $2! Regularly $24.99

Buy 2 $17.99 w/ Rebate (for 2 pairs = £ 23.35 total)

Edited August 27, 2010 by strix

[KPV4]

Yes, damn the people to hell who expect to earn money for a day's work, they should get up and open the shop for free, and make us cups of tea.

 

If you want it, pay for it, if you dont, stop whining. Real top end glass either shows an improvement in low light performance or high mag and elevation travel for long range. Both should be mechanically perfect but the latter can be forgiven for sacrificing top glass for long range adjustability. Nightforce and March are top glass for the latter but poor in low light, german stuff is the opposite as they offer very few high mag scopes but are excellent in low light. There are 1 or 2 middle ground optics like the Z6 and the PMII's but the Z6 offers little long range adjustability but is far more compact than the PMII. Everyhting is to some extent a compromise.

 

The best bet, as I think Al4x said is to pick up quality used glass, it holds its value and performance perfectly.

 

I get what you are saying but I think it fair that everyone has their opinion (right or wrong) and it doesn't have to be classed as whining, if a good debate cannot be had there is little point of a forum

 

I have to agree with a lot of the comments in this thread regarding many retailers (not just for guns) in this country. Yes due to many factors, rents, business rates etc they have to charge prices to make it worth their while opening the door. But remember the places selling these items in other countries also have these expenses, it is just rip off Britain I would rather sell a lot of items to make a small profit on each, than sell one item (or possibly not) by hiking the price up.

 

Lets face it we are all out for the best deal we can get especially now money is tighter, I'm a big believer that if some businesses took a slightly different approach they would make more money by selling more items, and the customer would get a better deal. My recent experience with a local gun shop was I asked if he would RFD a gun I was selling (at my cost), to which he refused and was quite blunt about it. So with his attitude in mind I didn't purchase my .17HMR and all associated kit and ammo, or my .223 and all associated kit and ammo, and I won't purchase my new 12g O/U (hopefully a Beretta) from him either in the near future, and I won't buy any ammo from him either. He is only a small local business, but call me silly but who is the looser, due to a very poor attitude?? Some think we owe them a living Someone I know purchased a second hand gun from the same gun shop for a substantial amount of money, when he bought the gun according to the dealer it was "the best thing since sliced bread" then due to un-forseen circumstances he had to sell the gun a year later and the same dealer offered him a third of purchase the price and guess what the gun was now out of fashion. This gun trader is no better than some second hand car dealers

 

Since the latest news is Beretta 686E's White Onyx's are not in fashion anymore, has anyone got one in mint condition I can buy for next to nothing

 

 

Sorry to go off topic

Edited August 27, 2010 by KPV4

[Dekers]

are the top scopes worth the money they are asking ?

 

Definately YES for a VERY few people in a very limited set of circumstances!

 

For most mere mortals cheaper scopes are still commonly much better than the shooter!

 

Also consider, some of the most expensive scope are very heavy, often a negative rather than positive point!

[Tam]

I can't believe just how much we are being asked to pay for glass.( i can't afford them and will never pay that kind of money as long as the hole in my bottom is still there.)

 

I am not here to scupper anyone's sale of a nice scope i am just thinking that most of the prices i read and see on site is down right scary.

 

whats your thoughts guys and girls.

 

bob.

 

Got my first Swaro recently - sitting on top of a .243 I am most impressed with the clarity :lol:

 

Have a look on here Rab http://www.rmacleod.co.uk/

[jamie g]

im all for the uk gunshops making abit of money but not to the point where they are charging silly amounts.

 

for instant primers cci br4 are around £30 to £35 pound for the 1000. my local shop thinks its good to sell them at £55 for 1000. now everyone has to make abit of dosh. but that is taking the ****.

 

same with powder £75 for the vit 160 ! its only £60 something in most shops ive been to when traveling about

[vmax55]

is it easy enough then to buy from usa and worth doing??