henry d Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Because as my permission depends on me"controlling pests"if the farmer sees 500 or so pigeon landing on a small area of flattened crop and seeing that same area more than double in size in a day or two....that is why I shoot at that time of year.It`s a pest and requires to be controlled. Do you hear anyone call for a close season or a stopping of lamping/stalking of rabbits for 9-10 months of the year when you can`t see whether they are feeding young ? Just my opinion,for what it`s worth(I tried to keep out of this one too ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Hi guys I have been watching in the wings for sometime and this subject got me good and I had to sign up to have my say.I guess I am going to be the guy some of you will hate. I have been shooting since I was old enough to hold a gun under the watchfull eye of my father. Now we shoot in a 16 acre woodland and we put about a ton of Barley down, a bucket a day come sun rain or shine over about 3/4 of an acre, during the winter months only. On a good day we may bag about 18 birds but usually its around a dozen. Surely this sport of ours is about conservation as well, how many of you hand on heart say they put something back in from what you take or is it all about getting into a field and shooting as many as you can. The food we put down is not exclusively taken by pigeons but all species benefit during the hardest time of year and I have seen deer and foxes eat the grain. We place nesting boxes around the wood for the vast range of small birds and have a small watering hole for them as well. Life in our wood is thriving which is borne out by the increase of sparrow hawks. If I were to put down a dozen or so pheasants and feed them and as a bi product I can shoot pigeon as I can't stop them feeding is that then morally ok. Some of you need to get off your soap boxes and look at what your doing for your sport and get real. Rab eye Hi Rab Eye, Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your input to this lively debate. What a pity you had to write your final sentence, telling others to "get real". Their views may differ to yours, but are they not entitled to hold those views..?? Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Its my opinion that many of us who shoot to primarily control pests and secondary because we enjoy it would never consider baiting or shooting during peak breeding months... this is why my decoy gear and the 16g goes away between End of March and generally September. I find Fishing far more productive during these months in any event. I also feel there are those of us amongst us who are "Herring Fisherman" that is to say they will carry on shooting regardless of the consequences and then blame the MAFF when the stocks run out. There are also those who are in it purely for the financial gain and these will bait fields to achieve their objectives. And finally there are the Catholics amongst us, who justifies his baiting by helping other wild life and putting up next boxes etc. This is very commendable but akin to 6 Hail Marys and £50 quid in the box. ( Nothing personal Rab Just the way I see it ) I think the true sportsman in us will prevail, I dont think honestly any of us like to see pictures of Hundreds of dead birds on a baited field with a £15.00 reward from sporting gun. Sure Pigeons are a classified pest and in some areas do significant damage to peas and othe legumes, but It is my opinion and also that of several farmers I know who grow very large acerages of Wheat, Rape and Barley that pigeon damage now even with the 2 to 3 million pairs of birds is significantly less than 40 years ago. Seed mopped up by Birds now is normally surface spillage that wouldnt germinate anyway, Laid wheat & barley is normally too badly storm damaged to harvest effectively with out fear of damaging expensive machinery, and rape soon recovers with the February and March Fertiliser spread even when it has been cropped to ground level by hungry pigeons. I dont do baiting because I just cant see the the point of putting our sport up for criticism by those who would have it banned at the drop of a hat. We should preserve our right to shoot pigeon by shooting within the confines of the rules be they written or moral and I believe if we do this we can enjoy pigeon shooting for many many years to come. If however their numbers drop significantly due to poor Autumns and severe Winters and we are still seen to be out every available day caneing the poor birds we will get our come uppance pretty damn quick. remember the people at Defra are Civil Servants in polyester not waxed cotton. ! Thats me done Im off for a quick beer at the Ram. FM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 ok,final word from me but why no reply will ? you have had your say and thats it ? guess its a question of line your pockets whilst you can and ****** the rest of `em. know where my money is going in future and it isnt the person who sees baiting as the way "forward". never met and never will meet deako but from what ive read he takes people pigeon decoying.this isnt argentina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 digger, if you go back and read Will Beasley's posts , you will see this extract. "**Disclaimer** I have never baited a field ever and I wholeheartedly encourgage you not to bait fields kids because its very naughty....I just think it would be a good idea IF IT WERE ALLOWED.. YA GET ME??**Disclaimer ends - Thankyou please** " I get the impression that not one of the contributors to this whole thread has actually seriously, repeatedly, baited a field. Most are too tight to buy the grain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMY Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 My tuppence. I don't agree with it, I don't do it, and totally agree with FM it would be technically illegal under the terms. If there was a test case I reckon I would have a bet on the outcome it being found against . If those who do do it and more people continue to do it.................the end is nigh. Hammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 It has been generally accepted for decades that shooting does not affect the pigeon population. Starvation controls pigeon numbers! Shooting will only protect a particular field while it is going on, so baiting could not be seen as crop protection. Pigeons will breed in every month of the year if the conditions are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Cranners, If you really mean what you said in your last post, you are either as daft as a baked potato or wholly corrupt. Ask around my friend, and find out the real TRUTH about what certain 'guides' in Oxfordshire really get up to. I've been compiling my evidence for months, and believe me, the video camera never lies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Beasley Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Cranners, If you really mean what you said in your last post, you are either as daft as a baked potato or wholly corrupt. Ask around my friend, and find out the real TRUTH about what certain 'guides' in Oxfordshire really get up to. I've been compiling my evidence for months, and believe me, the video camera never lies... :look: Come on then, post up some evidence John. Put your money where your mouth is. You just cant help it can you. Same as all that sad **** on your website about you not being "associated with the Beasleys of Oxfordshire". No-one really gives a toss. Its just sour grapes time after time. I've been compiling my evidence for months, and believe me, the video camera never lies... Oh so youve been following me round filming me in a tractor baiting up fields have you!!! :look: :look: Come back down to earth man. In that statement you make yourself sound like someone from Scotland Yards Serious Crime squad. I've got nothing to hide, like I said...never have baited never will.....no need. All I said that at certain times of year it (winter) could be a good practise to maintain effective control of Pigeon numbers. I have even written this in some pieces that were published in Shooting Times last year, and no-one kicked up. And please would you mind removing the rather dull personal refferal from your signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Gloves off and pistols drawn at 10 paces..!!! This is obviously still a hot topic. I have to agree with Cranners and R Jimmer, in that the practice is not widespread, I don't do it, and I can honestly say I've never known anybody else do it, but if those that make a living from shooting choose to do it and stay within the law, then that's their business. By far and away the greatest threat to Pigeon numbers is severe Winter weather. Most people that post on this forum have never experienced a bad Winter, and believe me, that can really decimate Pigeon numbers. Cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted February 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 We should preserve our right to shoot pigeon by shooting within the confines of the rules be they written or moral and I believe if we do this we can enjoy pigeon shooting for many many years to come. FM. FM some good sentiments there BUT I can't agree with the bit about being seen to do the right thing will keep us shooting. Remember the third way over fox hunting and where it got them. The anti's want shooting stopped no matter how we go about it (not advocating we do the wrong things) and no matter how right we claim to be they'll still want us banned from doing it. Then you fisher guys are next...the merchant of doom has spoken :( Don't know what the problem is between Will B and Deako but it should be stopped. You guys should make up or shut up at least on here 'cause this ain't a punch up forum! Cranfield??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 (edited) Will, Chill dude. Nobody is suggesting for one minute that YOU are baiting fields. But we BOTH know very well that the practice is alive and well in Oxfordshire (and elsewhere) and eventually it WILL result in pigeon shooting being banned. Video evidence already exists and should it be used against us by the antis, I really fear for our beloved sport. **EDIT** Will, I'd be happy to shake hands and share a beer later in the year...interesting debate though! :( Edited February 8, 2006 by Deako Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 I don't agree with baiting a field to shoot more pigeons.I shoot on 7 farms in my area and if the farmers caught me baiting a field to entice more pigeons to eat there crops they wouldn't be very impressed :< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Deako, I posted; "I get the impression that not one of the contributors to this whole thread has actually seriously, repeatedly, baited a field. Most are too tight to buy the grain." You posted; "Cranners, If you really mean what you said in your last post, you are either as daft as a baked potato or wholly corrupt. Ask around my friend, and find out the real TRUTH about what certain 'guides' in Oxfordshire really get up to. I've been compiling my evidence for months, and believe me, the video camera never lies... " Now you say that you were not suggesting Will Beasley baited fields, so who that posted on this thread do you think I know is repeatedly baiting fields ? I ask the question as I do not consider I am, "as daft as a baked potato" and I certainly am not, "wholly corrupt" (whatever that means in this context). Despite having sent you a PM, I don't expect an apology from you, lets just put it down to another example of the risks of posting on Internet Forums at 1.11 AM. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Cranners, Oh the joy of shift work!...never know what time I'm going to get home these days! :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Well there you go anti's, copy and paste away :*) :*) :*) :*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Will, Chill dude. Nobody is suggesting for one minute that YOU are baiting fields. But we BOTH know very well that the practice is alive and well in Oxfordshire (and elsewhere) and eventually it WILL result in pigeon shooting being banned. Video evidence already exists and should it be used against us by the antis, I really fear for our beloved sport. **EDIT** Will, I'd be happy to shake hands and share a beer later in the year...interesting debate though! :( Pack the fu**er up then. Let's face it baiting is pathetic. It is totally unsporting. Frankly I cannot believe anyone is doing this. Stop it. If it's about keeping foriegn clients happy, then let them see pigeon shooting in the UK for what it is. If they can't stand being in a hide for more than a minute without shooting then tell them to Pi** off back home. I repeat stop baiting, it's not on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20GAUGE Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 (edited) Whitebridges Had a lovely day today 78 birds, I thankyou. Damn difficult shooting, and wholey enjoyable. You should try it, who knows you may even like it !! Going to give them another bash tomorrow and then all the boys are out to cover the rape on Saturday and roost shooting afterwards, life is hard! I've noticed this week the little so and so's are very difficult to decoy. Has anybody else found the same? Oh I forgot to say its so lovely to know you can express yourself without expletive's! Edited February 8, 2006 by 20GAUGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Whitebridges Had a lovely day today 78 birds, I thankyou. Damn difficult shooting, and wholey enjoyable. You should try it, who knows you may even like it !! Going to give them another bash tomorrow and then all the boys are out to cover the rape on Saturday and roost shooting afterwards, life is hard! I've noticed this week the little so and so's are very difficult to decoy. Has anybody else found the same? Oh I forgot to say its so lovely to know you can express yourself without expletive's! Boll***S, fill yer location in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 I have never baited a field and neither has my father who is a professional Pigeon guide, he's never had the need to. I think if it came down to that he'd pack up his business first. I have however shot Pigeons and Rabbits from under the Pheasant hoppers with my air rifle. Does that make me a bad person?? I know a few people who get great Pigeon shooting over smashed up cover crop (maise) at this time of the year, and they get paid subsidies to plant the stuff! Perhaps that is the answer??? Mark. All field baiters will go to HELL :( , along with goose guides that use electronic callers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 oh pooh,this is definately my final word ( ok,last time i said that i was lying ) 20 gauge,you are a m*********,do one.first post and you seem like a total p****. troll along now little brain how long does a ban last for on here :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Okey dokey,if you want to bait fields to ease attention from other fields I say DO IT,but don`t shoot it.Let the pigeons be,why??because they aren`t doing any damage."But they are a pest"you say,well OK as it would be easier to get rid of a lot at one go,why not have the field surrounded by the rocket nets used to ring migratory birds and that will cover the removal of a serious agricultural pest. Yes it`s a stupid idea the only reason baiting is a topic is,and I baulk at using the name,as lots abuse it or don`t deserve it,"sporting agents"would like to do it. Once one is doing it and getting a name for large bags regularly,the others suffer and as it`s their living at stake,and who could blame them for wanting to pay the mortgage etc. So I say NO,NO and THRICE NO. I feel better already :( I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Had a lovely day today 78 birds, I thankyou. Damn difficult shooting, 20 Gauge Sounds like a bit of a contradiction in terms there.... 78 birds in this weather sounds pretty damn easy to me... dont you mean 7 or 8 birds :( FM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20GAUGE Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Firstly do you really need to use such sort of language, are you that imbecilic that you cant get your point across without swearing, grow up, boys. Secoundly, I'm not a new poster on this site I have posted here in the early days, I have started a new name as my old "account" was logged to a hotmail account that I no longer use. And yes it has been a tough week. I have been out 3 times this week, twice on OSR and today on a maize strip, and they are particularly difficult to decoy at the moment. I have no need to blow my own trumpet and todays bag was 78. Monday's was 1 rook and tuesdays was 2 pigeons. Shouldn't the moderators of this site erase posts with such language in them, its all a bit school play ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 We try to interfere as little as possible, but this topic is in danger of having run its course. If anyone has anything new to say, without getting involved in personal attacks, say it now. Otherwise we will let this thread slide, or lock it. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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