Dr W Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Just had FLO visit and they checked safe and guy said it was ok but as it was in an integral garage I should put some additional bolts on the garage door so only opened from inside. I've just had a call from lady from the firearms office who said that their policy is that safes shouldn't be in garages (despite what FLO said) and so they can't accept it and I have to move it inside. Now is there anyway to appeal this since I know that other forces allow safes in garages. It's ridiculous because the safe is out of the way, probably more secure that inside the house but all this woman would keep bleating on about was their policy, I know have to undo 2 hours work of fitting in the first place and purchase a load more ground anchor bolts, very annoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymc Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Get onto the BASC (or whoever you are a member with) and ask them. I know the N.Ireland office has a great relationship with the firearms office and they may be able to advise you on what's the score. If it's their policy then you will have to take it on the chin and move it. Nowt much else you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 as above , policy is policy . but rember that most up n over style garage doors can be opened quicker Without the set of keys. you may have a high security shutter style door , but if it says on there tick sheat no garages they cannot make exceptions .adi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 on a related note - anyone know how most forces feel about gunsafes in a garden office (brick)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted November 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 I would understand if just up and over door but the door is also padlocked at the bottom on the outside and I was going to fit (as advised by FLO) further locks bolting the doors into the frame only accessible from the inside. Nevermind it's a pain to move but more of a pain to find somewhere my Mrs is happy for the safe to be inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 on a related note - anyone know how most forces feel about gunsafes in a garden office (brick)? I'm pretty sure it has to be situated in the house or to a secure part of the house that is attached/integrated IE the brick integrated garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlistairB Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 I had my first one passed to be in the garage as the FEO felt it would be easier to fit securely in there than in the house (new build, plasterboard walls etc) Garage has a metal roller shutter remote control door, all brick attached to the house and the only exit door has a 5 bolt integrated lock on it. When i phoned them to say i was adding another cabinet and wanted to bolt it to the floor in the house because of the potential for damage from damp to guns in the garage, they said i couldnt have one in the garage. When they saw it they relented though. Seems even different FEO's in the same force cant agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 i guess i'll have to ask when we move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 My first gunsafe was on an attached garage, next to a door with a glass window - but it was still allowed. It all depends on the force in question, so I'm guessing it more relates to the type of crimes in the area you live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Your Police Force are obliged to act within HO guidelines,as are you,regarding security.So long as you do this you are fulfilling your responsibilities,regardless of 'policy'.Get onto your shooting org' ASAP,that's what they're there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 They used to allow you to have them in garages or out buildings but not any more. On the whole they are less secure, and they could make more noise breaking in. I wouldn't want my firearms in an unheated garage. You should have asked first and fitted it in the house. Don't have a copy of the guidelines with me at work, but I did think garages were not allowed in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 From the Firearm security handbook: 1.4 Under most circumstances, it is preferable that firearms should be secured within theoccupied structure of a dwelling. Separate, detached buildings, or those attached but having only external access eg outhouses, garages etc should not be used unless the levels of security warrant it. If used, these could also be protected by an intruder alarm linked to the household. http://www.herts.police.uk/firearms_licensing/docs/PT%20Firearms%20Security%20Handbook1.pdf I can't see that a garage would ever be the 'best' place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesbach Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 when i first fitted mine, i was told it had to be in a room that could not be in direct access from outside..ie pass through at least two doors before reaching the cabinet. the more guns i then built up, my FEO even then suggested that if i was to get anymore then the house should be alarmed...!! outdoor buildings were always a no no with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmason24 Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Just had FLO visit and they checked safe and guy said it was ok but as it was in an integral garage I should put some additional bolts on the garage door so only opened from inside. I've just had a call from lady from the firearms office who said that their policy is that safes shouldn't be in garages (despite what FLO said) and so they can't accept it and I have to move it inside. Now is there anyway to appeal this since I know that other forces allow safes in garages. It's ridiculous because the safe is out of the way, probably more secure that inside the house but all this woman would keep bleating on about was their policy, I know have to undo 2 hours work of fitting in the first place and purchase a load more ground anchor bolts, very annoyed. Exactly the same when I had mine in an integral garage which was used only for storage, and more of a utility room. The FEO said I could keep it in there but would have to install a Red Care (monitored) Alarm system. I moved it in to the main part of the house!!! Then bought the missus a very nice present Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ste12b Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 I was also told no to garage. Glad though because guns are now nice , dry and warm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted November 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) Ok been onto BASC and had a good chat with them and one of the authors of the Firearms Security Handbook. The lady who refused my transfer is actually known to them. BASC told me that there are no enforceable policies and all that matters is complying with the law and Home Office guidance. BASC said that too many people don't question what they are told and suddenly things can become law because they are not questioned. My FEO also rang to say he is standing by his original assessment that my integral garage was fine and has also sought the opinion of a 2nd FEO who agreed with him. I was also told this woman is known as being a pain and chances are if I'd had another manager there wouldn't have been a problem. I was unfortunate that she accompanied him on my particular inspection. On reflection I might well move the safe to a spot inside but for the time being I'm going to challenge this woman so she realises she is not above the law and can not start enforcing her own policies. I have also had it confirmed that Avon & Somerset do not have any policies on integral garages and she has made this up. I plan to write her a letter - I'll let you know what happens. Cheers Dr W Edited November 12, 2010 by Dr W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Well written letter and will be intresting what the final result will be.I dont think you're being unreasonable with installing the cabinet in an integral garage.Provided you meet their security criteria i cant see a problem. How times have changed though when you think my grandad used to keep his shotguns in an unlocked outbuilding along with cartridges,gin traps and snares! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 i have mine in the garage and at the end of the day you are responsible for security should the guns get stolen so i dont know why the police are so bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 i have mine in the garage and at the end of the day you are responsible for security should the guns get stolen so i dont know why the police are so bothered. Why are they bothered? is that a serious comment?? Maybe they are bothered because they dont want dangerous people easily getting hold of guns and running about shooting up the neighbourhood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Why are they bothered? is that a serious comment?? Maybe they are bothered because they dont want dangerous people easily getting hold of guns and running about shooting up the neighbourhood! If its an intergral garage with all the locks the op described then it is as safe in there as it is in the house. so my point is why do some police forces get so worked up about it? or putting it another way. if the guns get stolen from your house your security will be reviewed regardless of the advice from the police. its your responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted November 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Basc advised me that in some cases where guns have been stolen that Avon & Somerset Police have said that they didn't 'approve' the gun safe location but merely 'advised'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 never heard of any police h/q letting gun safes in the garage, they have all ways had to be in the house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) Basc advised me that in some cases where guns have been stolen that Avon & Somerset Police have said that they didn't 'approve' the gun safe location but merely 'advised'. thats right. in a similar vein a chap had his shotgun stolen from his car and was prosecuted(quite rightly) for not securing it. i think alot of people are under the impression that the police "sign off" your gun cabinet installation. its not true the responsibility lies with yourself and that is why i dont see why they fuss over the location(obviously within sensible boundaries). you might then think where does it end? maybe you live in a timber frame house with timber cladding. does this mean that you can't keep a gun on the property because the walls are not blockwork? Edited November 10, 2010 by artschool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 I have seen a gun safe, approved by F.A.O. in an external garage not accessed from the house, this was in the Lothian and Borders Police area. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 the reason they get worked up is you can leave a garage door open, even with locks inside if another family member can't be bothered to get the car out shut the door go inside lock the bolts go out etc etc it takes time to do. They like it to be simple so odds are it actually gets done, safes are far better inside the house. NB herts said a definite no to my brothers being in a brick built shed even with decent locks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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