Guns safes in garages

[Scully]

Good for you DrW.A friend of mone who comes under Dumfries and Galloway has gis safe in his garage wiyhtout any additional security.Like I've said before,the Police are as bound by legislation as us,it's not up to them to interpret it for their own agendas.Well done.

[HW682]

 

..attended the inspection with the Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) ***** ***** who approved the sighting siting of my gun cabinet ....

 

not trying to be a smart ****, just that you don't want anything to distract from the main point of your letter

[Dr W]

Good for you DrW.A friend of mone who comes under Dumfries and Galloway has gis safe in his garage wiyhtout any additional security.Like I've said before,the Police are as bound by legislation as us,it's not up to them to interpret it for their own agendas.Well done.

 

I think if the FEO had said no and given reasons why I'd have been less likely to press on although there's no reason why since it's the law I'm following. However because this was a civilian 'manager' who is known to be a pain in the backside and does not have the years of experience the FEOs have or shoots, I'm very keen to make a fuss (and then put the safe inside, just because I'm bloody minded). She needs to be brought down a peg or two and realise she doesn't make the law just makes sure it's followed.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Dr W

[vampire]

News to me

[Dr W]

What is?

[Dekers]

There are detailed Home Office "guidelines" about suitable mounting ways and places, the problem is these are guidelines.

 

There is NO LAW that says you can't mount in your roof space, garage, shed, boat, caravan, etc, etc.

 

Every case needs to be looked at on it's own merits, and of course the interpretation will be different in every police region in the uk!

 

Appeal as much as you like, probably all that will happen is you will fail and your card will be marked, absolute ****, but that's the way it is.

 

As I often say, yet another reason why the whole Firearms Laws need a MAJOR review!

[poontang]

 

 

 

 

as a non shooter I do not believe you understand the practical aspects of gun storage.

 

 

 

I'd leave this bit out if I were you. Otherwise not a bad letter.

[vampire]

Suffolk will let cabinet be sited in attached garages and with added security there is no reason why a garage shoudnt be as secure or more so then most houses,doesnt take long to kick a 2xg in or the panel out of a plastic door etc,i have repaired loads of break ins.Some good points made earlier about others who have access to a garage and not securing properly,even so it is not against the law to have a cabinet in a garage.

[J@mes]

I'd leave this bit out if I were you. Otherwise not a bad letter.

 

 

So would I, keep it civil and try to get the woman on side. Going on the attack and making her feel stupid (as much as she may need and deserve it) isn't the way to go I don't think.

[HDAV]

I'd leave this bit out if I were you. Otherwise not a bad letter.

I would agree, otherwise very well written and detailed letter, You may wish to copy the Chief constable in as it is their name on the CERT no the FEO/FLO manager. If you referred to the area as your "store room" or "workshop" then the policy (which does not exist) would not apply..... out of interest what is the current situation i assume you already hold an SGC/FAC and have guns and cabinet so how do you stand currently?

Edited November 10, 2010 by HDAV

[bucolic]

Gun Cabinets should be secured to the fabric of the house in a protected area( i.e. not the garage or an outhouse ) by at least four fixing points, this is from a book called Sporting Shooting and the Law by David Frost published by The National Gamekeepers Organisation, It also states that the police are advised that each case should be judged on its merits.

Edited November 10, 2010 by bucolic

[Dr W]

I would agree, otherwise very well written and detailed letter, You may wish to copy the Chief constable in as it is their name on the CERT no the FEO/FLO manager. If you referred to the area as your "store room" or "workshop" then the policy (which does not exist) would not apply..... out of interest what is the current situation i assume you already hold an SGC/FAC and have guns and cabinet so how do you stand currently?

 

Thanks for the advice, I will remove the sentence although it is absolutely true. The FEO said he's not keen on people using lofts unless they'll regliously go into the loft and store guns while not in use which is not possibly unless easy access, he said he has experience of people going shooting over two days just leaving gun behind bedroom door instead of putting away properly.

 

I was planning on copying in her boss but not a bad idea to include the Chief Constable (I'll be running letter past BASC before I send).

 

Also agreed workshop is a better term espacially as that is what it is, it's not a garage as the cars don't go in there as I use it as my workshop and storage (which the FEO and this woman were able to observe during the visit). This means that there is no chance of other family members leaving the main garage doors open for all to see (plus safe will be inside a cupboard anyway).

 

With regard to my current situation my guns are being held by another FEO who is a friend of my father in law so safe empty anyway, however my FEO told me that I could continue to use my exisiting licence and could store my guns in the safe where it is without any problem, obviously there might be a problem when coming to renew. This is different to my understanding which was when you moved the safe had to be reinspected?

 

BASC and FEO have also told me that my card cannot be marked for making a fuss and not lieing down and accepting her ruling which is why I'm making a point.

[markbivvy]

Any correspondence would be better of sent to the chief of police for your area.

[njc110381]

Can't you just tell your mrs that the safe is going where you want it to?

 

Grow some balls man! My safe is in the bedroom and occupies the same amount of space as my other half. If the safe don't fit, she don't fit.

[Dekers]

Thanks for the advice, I will remove the sentence although it is absolutely true. The FEO said he's not keen on people using lofts unless they'll regliously go into the loft and store guns while not in use which is not possibly unless easy access, he said he has experience of people going shooting over two days just leaving gun behind bedroom door instead of putting away properly.

 

I was planning on copying in her boss but not a bad idea to include the Chief Constable (I'll be running letter past BASC before I send).

 

Also agreed workshop is a better term espacially as that is what it is, it's not a garage as the cars don't go in there as I use it as my workshop and storage (which the FEO and this woman were able to observe during the visit). This means that there is no chance of other family members leaving the main garage doors open for all to see (plus safe will be inside a cupboard anyway).

 

With regard to my current situation my guns are being held by another FEO who is a friend of my father in law so safe empty anyway, however my FEO told me that I could continue to use my exisiting licence and could store my guns in the safe where it is without any problem, obviously there might be a problem when coming to renew. This is different to my understanding which was when you moved the safe had to be reinspected?

 

BASC and FEO have also told me that my card cannot be marked for making a fuss and not lieing down and accepting her ruling which is why I'm making a point.

 

Not Officially if you conduct yourself in a sensible a manner, but we live in the real world of long memories! Be careful!

[HDAV]

With regard to my current situation my guns are being held by another FEO who is a friend of my father in law so safe empty anyway, however my FEO told me that I could continue to use my exisiting licence and could store my guns in the safe where it is without any problem, obviously there might be a problem when coming to renew. This is different to my understanding which was when you moved the safe had to be reinspected?

 

BASC and FEO have also told me that my card cannot be marked for making a fuss and not lieing down and accepting her ruling which is why I'm making a point.

As far as i am aware it is the Cert holders responsibility to secure guns not the polices

[Pastiebap]

The ACPO Firearms Security Handbook is the guidance that Firearms Departments should be using, this handbook is to compliment legislation and other guidance and helps (in theory) unmuddy the waters.

 

Firearms Depts like to issue their own "policies", but unless it is a Chief Cons condition, then they should be working within the spirit of the guidance. Your FEO was and is 100% right.

 

For future reference, here is the handbook: http://www.herts.police.uk/firearms_licensing/docs/security_handbook%202005.pdf

[retromlc]

i got mine in the garage 18 months ago,it's a drop down door but has a sold secure ground anchour fitted,and the house alarm is fitted with a pir in the garage too.no problems,

[straightshooter1]

I know of a guy who has his shotgun firearm and reloading gear all in an over opening garage and he has no problems but the again he might have added security ie bolts alarms etc and i agree with the above it really depnds on the force but if yours says no its easier just to relocate rather than get thier backs up going through basc etc for such a trivial thing imho

[kyska]

"as a non shooter I do not believe you understand the practical aspects of gun storage."

 

That bit might rile a bit...try...

 

"as a woman I do not believe you understand the practical aspects of gun storage."

[Dr W]

if yours says no its easier just to relocate rather than get thier backs up going through basc etc for such a trivial thing imho

 

But that's exactly why I should make a fuss. This is one woman's view point and not the view of my FEO. It is easier to bend over and do what she says but why should I?I'm within the law so why can't I keep it where it is?

 

I very well may move the safe inside anyway but that is not the point, I'm doing this for other shooters in the area and letting her know she can't make up her own rules.

 

The letters have gone off and I wait to see what happens.

[al4x]

so in theory they could pull your ticket if you won't comply with their storage criteria. Personally I want my guns inside where its good and warm and easy to get at, the missus has always known the guns and dog were there before her and that they take precedent

[Dr W]

so in theory they could pull your ticket if you won't comply with their storage criteria. Personally I want my guns inside where its good and warm and easy to get at, the missus has always known the guns and dog were there before her and that they take precedent

 

BASC say no they can't. They say a cert can only be revoked for breaching terms i.e criminal conviction, going mad etc.

They said I've complied with the legal aspects by notifying them that I have moved house in writing and my cert can't be revoked for using my safe as it is.

 

My gun isn't in the safe as I thought I had to wait for their approval so I'm not breaking any rules.

 

I'll probably find a spot inside anyway the Mrs doesn't mind (apart from the wardrobe) so I've got a few options but to be honest I want to see where this goes first, it's not causing me any bother and they can't not renew my licence for arguing with them now.

[Dunkield]

Be sure to let us know how your next variation application goes

[Dr W]

Only have shotguns so not an issue for me.