The Duncan Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 What do you guys think? When my feo visited today re:sgc, I broached the subject of deer calibre as there a muntjac on my permissions. I also said I was looking to stalk other deer in the near future. She said that she'd ok a .223 but no more for muntjac or CWD but no more. I asked why not a .243? She said it was too much gun for the quarry, but had the advantage it was a good fox calibre too. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I've shot Muntjac with a 308... and eaten them afterwards She dosen't know what she's on about... but then she is woman :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 She said it was too much gun for the quarry, Under power is the issue, not over power...more FLO bull...!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I think she will find it actually the minimum calibre for muntjack give or take .222 and .22-250. Shes talking rubbish, ask her to tell you where in the law it states that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokie Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 223 is the minimum calibre for munty and CWD not hte max .The feo is there for guidance unfortunately she got it wrong . The limitation is put on the land not the species . I have vermin on 223 which means I can shoot bunnies if I want . Its completely over the top , but still allowed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Yet more ******** from a FEO. There's a surprise! Have you tried asking her how all the Munties and CWD were shot before they changed the law? Were they all vapourised pre 01/10/2007? No! And if you want to shoot other species via paid stalks then you will need bigger than .22 anyway. With the wrong bullet a .223 will ruin a Munty yet with the right bullet a .308 will do a clean job. I suggest you ask for what you need - .243 if you'll be paying to go after Roe/Fallow. Sika and Reds perhaps 6.5x55 or .260 would be more appropriate. If you have Muntjac then you have Deer and can ask for a Deer calibre. If you want a .243 then just ask for it! Once you have a Deer calibre it's perfectly acceptable to be able to use it for Fox and not just "whilst stalking Deer". If you're bullied into getting a .22CF then you will be very restricted. Don't just stand and take it would be my advice, go above her if need be and talk to your head of department to see what he/she has to say. My force were tough at first but I played by the rules (or perhaps quoted them is a better way of putting it) and eventually I gained their respect. If you're new to this they will be cautious. It's up to you to read up on it and gain experience to show them that you know what you need and why you need it. The more they get to know you and the more they see that you know your stuff the more they will give in my experience. A while back I was on the phone to my head of dept for one reason or another and he asked if I would mind helping him out?! Someone had asked for a 6.5x54 and he didn't know what to make of it - what it was, was it a typo, was it suitable for Deer etc? I gave him the rundown of info out of my loading manual that I had on the desk. Energy, velocity etc and that it would be ok but was pretty much a home load only round so would probably warrant a decent buy/hold allowance. It must have made me sound like a real pro and it felt quite good to know that by this point he feels he can ask me about things he's unsure of! EDIT... I guess what I'm trying to say is that with some work and polite but firm interaction you can build a good relationship with your head of dept. That will really help in the long term to make these things easier. Edited January 6, 2011 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) What do you guys think? When my feo visited today re:sgc, I broached the subject of deer calibre as there a muntjac on my permissions. I also said I was looking to stalk other deer in the near future. She said that she'd ok a .223 but no more for muntjac or CWD but no more. I asked why not a .243? She said it was too much gun for the quarry, but had the advantage it was a good fox calibre too. What do you think? Mind you she's right in what she says .223 is plenty for a Munty. Maybe if you had said foxes and muntjac, you must have foxes as well. Edited January 6, 2011 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 What do you guys think? When my feo visited today re:sgc, I broached the subject of deer calibre as there a muntjac on my permissions. I also said I was looking to stalk other deer in the near future. She said that she'd ok a .223 but no more for muntjac or CWD but no more. I asked why not a .243? She said it was too much gun for the quarry, but had the advantage it was a good fox calibre too. What do you think? What a load of old tosh . What does she know about shooting ? I would love her to come to my house ,I would have her in tears . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 What a load of old tosh . What does she know about shooting ? I would love her to come to my house ,I would have her in tears . Harnser . Would be great fun, but maybe not the best option. Had some good advice to never get into a 'who can **** higher up the wall highest contest' with an feo. I am SURE they delay applications and variations depending on how you talk to them. Although saying that, I did have half a shouting match over the phone with one who told me it was 'outright illegal to shoot foxes with a shotgun.' Sure that put a few weeks on my variation Some of them are AWFUL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colster Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 So she's saying that if you put in for .243 for deer, she would see to it that your licence (and presumably only your licence) would be specifically conditioned to say something along the lines of: The .243 rifle and moderator may be used for Deer (but not little Munties and those silly teddy bear looking things as it's too much gun and might hurt them)" Can't see her making that stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth W Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I suggest you call her and ask her as the home office guide lines state: 13.29 Suitable calibres for shooting deer range from .243 to .45-70. For the larger species of deer (Red, Sika and Fallow) .243 calibre is legal, but .270 and larger calibres are generally more suitable allowing a 130-150 grain bullet weight, a muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second and a muzzle energy of 1,750 foot pounds. For the smaller deer species (Roe, Muntjac and Chinese Water Deer) .243 calibres are optimal. See paragraph 13.32 for information about legislative requirements for the shooting of deer in Scotland, which are based on the performance of the ammunition not the calibre of the rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 There does seem a little confusion/ambiguity/ignorance in her response. .22CF has only been legally allowed for CWD and Muntjac since 2007, prior to that is was the .240 deal of the bigger deer! Difficult to argue .243 is too much gun for them when it is also suggested for Fox in the Home Office Guide. Strange world though as we all know, it was only about 3 years ago that my people allowed FOX on my .308, having said for years it was too much gun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 One of the few successes I had with Met FET was in expressing a desire to minimise the number of different calibre rifles I own by requesting a .243 for fox and deer and thus avoiding the need for the additional .22CF. It may be worth trying the angle that by going with .243 you are future-proofing yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotland rifles Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 seems a lot of areas are pulling the .243 needs a dsc or other deer management course passed before issuing it for deer of any size. i had a battle and a half for mine. try their .243 for FOX and deer of all sizes that are found in your area, failing that if you are a member of basc have a chat with the regional officer, good luck bob. PS: she is talking horse poo buy the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duncan Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks you so much for all the useful advice and input chaps, a lot of sense and knowledge coming through (as usual). I think she maybe confused a tad about the 2007 law change then. :unsure: She was raised on a farm and passionately dislikes foxes so when the time comes I'll just ask for a .243 for fox and deer and leave it at that without getting into particular deer species. She also has a friend who takes out newby stalkers to see how they get on (ie if they like it) and also said that she recommended the DSC's. She didn't say I had to DSC first, but I got the feeling it would be more or less essential for me to get the bigger calibres. Should I get boar opportunities, I'll ask for a .308 at that point and treat it as a separate issue. Actually, for all she may not be totally sharp on details, she was very practical indeed when it came to licencing. She said that she would grant me any calibre if I had a purpose for it, end of. I certainly felt she was more on my side than against me so good start! My last one who retired last year seemed to want you to jump through hoops to get an fac. Maybe it was because that was for my first fire arm. Nice guy though. Once again, thanks for your knowledge and help ATB Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Do not accept that your FEO says you cant have a certain calibre, your FEO has not got the authority to say what you can and cannot have. If you want a 243, then muntjack on your permissions and the fact you want to stalk other deer is a valid reason. It is also the Home office reccommended fox calibre Tell your FEO politely that you want to apply for a 243 and the above are the valid reasons, she cannot refuse you. Asking applicants to do a DSC1 before the granting of a FAC is actually unlawful, FAC holders must stand up to licensing authorities who try to push their own ctiteria for the granting, renewal and variations of FAC's Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 If she's as reasonable as you say just tell her that the .243 is a good calibre for what you want to do and if you go for a .22 of any sort it will restrict future use. She should see sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 njc, We shouldnt need to reason with FEO's, a request is a request and if there is good reson for that request then the FEO is obliged to submit it. Any applications i make for variations or condition changes are made direct to my licensing manager i never initially involve my FEO. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Any applications i make for variations or condition changes are made direct to my licensing manager i never initially involve my FEO. I'm the same. It's the best way to get things done with minimal grief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.