Removal of Canada geese from the pest list.

[wildfowler.250]

I haven't read all the posts but....

 

I enjoy some aspects of pest control. I actually enjoy it when you get a sunny evening out for rabbits and you get a good clean shot on an adult rabbit. If a 'baby' one comes out I will also shoot it. This I don't enjoy as I can't eat it,(sounds like a contradiction) but I will kill it as small rabbits become big rabbits and so on.

 

I'm not sure if this makes much sense but you are ultimately doing a job. Preferably not a half as*ed one

[anser2]

where have I said to quote you “I thought it was all about anser2 trying to cause landowners to feed and care for Geese by making them more complicated to control: This makes them bigger and easier to hit, so he and a few friends can exclusively fire pellets in the direction of moving quarry and hurt some of them sportingly hard enough to make them fall out of the sky just for the hell of it. “ ? You just do not read posts properly and then spout rubbish. I want Canada’s to be on the quarry list and easy licences being available to those who need them. What I do not like is people killing breeding birds and shooting goslings in the summer. Quite apart from the East Anglian declining population in part due to control measures , but the very real risks to the image to shooting if the public ever find out what some people are doing. Just think what the News of the World would do with pictures of baby goslings swimming around their dead parents only to be later shot themselves. Not the images that are going to win us any friends with the public and if it ever happens will lead to further restrictions for every shooter . Just think about the future and your kids sport.

 

You talk rubbish at times David G . As for hurting them with a shotgun, the chance would be a fine thing , I shoot over 8,000 acres of marshland and 7,000 of farm land scattered across Norfolk and Canada’s are now so scarce I have not shot at one for years. 2006 was the last two I shot , a right and left , with both birds cleanly killed and retrieved.

 

And 2 decades ago Norfolk including one of the marshes i shoot was one of the main population centres for Canada’s in the country.

 

On the other hand I seem to remember a report by the WWT of wildfowl carrying both shot gun pellets and a number with .22 bullets in their bodies. So both methods in unskilled hands can wound.

 

As for the baby rabbit issue I have talked it over with several mates wildfowlers , gamekeepers and game shooters and only one a gamekeeper has done it and then only when he could not get any large rabbits for trap bait. But then it seems in this part of the country we have higher sporting ethics than some.There is so much more to shooting than just killing things.

Edited March 25, 2011 by anser2

[Dekers]

where have I said to quote you I thought it was all about anser2 trying to cause landowners to feed and care for Geese by making them more complicated to control: This makes them bigger and easier to hit, so he and a few friends can exclusively fire pellets in the direction of moving quarry and hurt some of them sportingly hard enough to make them fall out of the sky just for the hell of it. ? You just do not read posts properly and then spout rubbish. I want Canadas to be on the quarry list and easy licences being available to those who need them. What I do not like is people killing breeding birds and shooting goslings in the summer. Quite apart from the East Anglian declining population in part due to control measures , but the very real risks to the image to shooting if the public ever find out what some people are doing. Just think what the News of the World would do with pictures of baby goslings swimming around their dead parents only to be later shot themselves. Not the images that are going to win us any friends with the public and if it ever happens will lead to further restrictions for every shooter . Just think about the future and your kids sport.

 

You talk rubbish at times David G . As for hurting them with a shotgun, the chance would be a fine thing , I shoot over 8,000 acres of marshland and 7,000 of farm land scattered across Norfolk and Canadas are now so scarce I have not shot at one for years. 2006 was the last two I shot , a right and left , with both birds cleanly killed and retrieved.

 

And 2 decades ago Norfolk including one of the marshes i shoot was one of the main population centres for Canadas in the country.

 

On the other hand I seem to remember a report by the WWT of wildfowl carrying both shot gun pellets and a number with .22 bullets in their bodies. So both methods in unskilled hands can wound.

 

As for the baby rabbit issue I have talked it over with several mates wildfowlers , gamekeepers and game shooters and only one a gamekeeper has done it and then only when he could not get any large rabbits for trap bait. But then it seems in this part of the country we have higher sporting ethics than some.There is so much more to shooting than just killing things.

 

 

Oh Dear!

This thread could go on a long time!

I think you need to move, there are thousands of Canadas inland!

 

As for the baby rabbit issue I have talked it over with several mates wildfowlers , gamekeepers and game shooters and only one a gamekeeper has done it and then only when he could not get any large rabbits for trap bait

 

Not a Pest Controller amongst them and OBVIOUSLY NO PEST PROBLEM either, as the Gamekeeper couldn't find any adult bunnies!

 

So, you have No Canadas and No rabbit to worry about, no wonder you are ****** off!

 

ATB!

Edited March 25, 2011 by Dekers

[Dave-G]

....What I do not like is people killing breeding birds and shooting goslings in the summer....

 

"in the summer" - When there are crops to be protected from breeding birds and goslings before they eat them to grow more to eat more to grow more to eat more - you get the idea.

 

.... Just think what the News of the World would do with pictures of baby goslings swimming around their dead parents only to be later shot themselves....

 

This would not be the result of a shooter wearing a pest control hat whilst copping one for the pot in the process of scaring the remaining birds off for a few hours: I can't imagine the average shooter being equipped with waders or whatever to retreive from the water. 15000 acres and barely a goose in sight? I dont have many rabbits available to me at the moment - I guess it must be time to ammend the licence to better suit my local needs too.

 

The image you portray of baby goslings swimming around their dead parents - perhaps you could tell us who shoots them like that in the water please which might clarify your stance better.

[al4x]

There is so much more to shooting than just killing things.

 

 

too right there is, thats why you get hobby shooters like yourself and people that do crop protection for farmers. 1 rabbit now will be breeding by april time so by harvest could have had young and those young had young, hence every 1 you get now makes a big difference. You only get a short time frame to make the big difference and that is now.

 

Its not an issue to most that work the land and has to be done, my farmer won't tolerate acres of lost wheat to let the baby bunnies grow up, its nice that you and your mates have the luxury to not have to shoot anything you don't want to. Hopefully this drivel doesn't have too much more mileage on it as its getting silly now

[martyn2233]

where have I said to quote you “I thought it was all about anser2 trying to cause landowners to feed and care for Geese by making them more complicated to control: This makes them bigger and easier to hit, so he and a few friends can exclusively fire pellets in the direction of moving quarry and hurt some of them sportingly hard enough to make them fall out of the sky just for the hell of it. “ ? You just do not read posts properly and then spout rubbish. I want Canada’s to be on the quarry list and easy licences being available to those who need them. What I do not like is people killing breeding birds and shooting goslings in the summer. Quite apart from the East Anglian declining population in part due to control measures , but the very real risks to the image to shooting if the public ever find out what some people are doing. Just think what the News of the World would do with pictures of baby goslings swimming around their dead parents only to be later shot themselves. Not the images that are going to win us any friends with the public and if it ever happens will lead to further restrictions for every shooter . Just think about the future and your kids sport.

 

You talk rubbish at times David G . As for hurting them with a shotgun, the chance would be a fine thing , I shoot over 8,000 acres of marshland and 7,000 of farm land scattered across Norfolk and Canada’s are now so scarce I have not shot at one for years. 2006 was the last two I shot , a right and left , with both birds cleanly killed and retrieved.

 

And 2 decades ago Norfolk including one of the marshes i shoot was one of the main population centres for Canada’s in the country.

 

On the other hand I seem to remember a report by the WWT of wildfowl carrying both shot gun pellets and a number with .22 bullets in their bodies. So both methods in unskilled hands can wound.

 

As for the baby rabbit issue I have talked it over with several mates wildfowlers , gamekeepers and game shooters and only one a gamekeeper has done it and then only when he could not get any large rabbits for trap bait. But then it seems in this part of the country we have higher sporting ethics than some.There is so much more to shooting than just killing things.

sounds boring where you live (you cant shoot that baby rabbit) im surprized you have land to shoot over

[Paul223]

What I do not like is people killing breeding birds

 

Really ?? i hope you mentioned pigeons, corvids and seagulls etc in your correspondence with the GL folk? or do they not breed / have young to feed

 

or may be it's not about the birds and it's all about you

 

I dont have many rabbits available to me at the moment - I guess it must be time to ammend the licence to better suit my local needs too.

 

seems to be the fashion

 

1 rabbit now will be breeding by april time so by harvest could have had young and those young had young, hence every 1 you get now makes a big difference. You only get a short time frame to make the big difference and that is now.

seen baby bunnies at the end of Feb this year every one counts :yp:

Edited March 26, 2011 by Paul223

[poontang]

I'm a farmer and I shot a baby rabbit tonight.

Should I have waited until it had got big and fat by eating my cabbages first?

I would do the same to pigeons given half the chance.

I have thousands of geese fly over my place but unless they start eating my crops I won't even shoot at them.

 

Good man.

 

Unfortunately there are plenty of people about who would.

 

I believe that's the point anser2 is trying to get across?

[Tim Kelly]

Plenty? I really don't think there are, and that's the point. He's fretting about something which really isn't a problem. If those that do shoot them for no reason out of season were told they couldn't any more, do you think it would stop them?

[scolopax]

If those that do shoot them for no reason out of season were told they couldn't any more, do you think it would stop them?

 

Yes

[mudpatten]

Once upon a time it was wildfowlers who were considered to be the "hard men" of shooting.

 

Despite the physical difficulties associated with `fowling it has produced huge amounts of the most romantic and readable of shootings literature with contributions from such literary giants as BB,Abel Chapman, Sir Ralph Payne Galwey,Arthur Cadman,Col. Peter Hawker and Sir Peter Scott to name but a few.

 

Almost all these writers wrestled with the moral dilemmas that `fowling produces and many were concerned with the unwritten ethical code that shrouds sport below the high water mark.

 

Now though it seems that the almost Zen like philosophy of wildfowling has been replaced by something else.

 

The new tough guy on the block is now the "pest controller". Stone cold killers who stalk the countryside slaying everything that the law permits with scant regard or understanding for anything so arcane as philosophy.

 

Oh! and don`t expect to lull yourself to sleep at bedtime by trawling through "pest controls" sporting literature. There aint any.

[Dave-G]

I've seen hunting and killing dressed up in many ways, but romantic is a genuine first for me.

 

The most humane way I know of shooting non captive quarry on the ground is a brain shot, it's sudden death with no incling it is going to occur, nor awareness to the quarry that it took place. Next in line is the boiler room, often used when the head is quite active. The sooner other discipline shooters stop claiming that a sporting shot is more special, alluring, superior, um romantic or more acceptable to the media gaze, the sooner this type of thread will dissappear.

[CharlieT]

Funny old world when NE consider that the Canada Goose has reached such numeric proportions that it (NE) deem it necessary to add this particular goose to the OGL and to go as far as to recommended that catching up during the flightless period, when both adults and young can easily be rounded up and humanely culled, is the best way to deal with large numbers of this pest species.

 

Just remind me how many years the Canada has been on the OGL because reading some of the drivel posted the OGL is to blame for many years of declining numbers. For the couple of years it's been on the OGL I would have thought the numbers have hardly been dented yet. I am also quite sure that once numbers are under control NE will be quick enough to remove it from the list as they have done with other species.

 

I would suggest that those who witness the unlawful killing of Canada's, that is witnessing the terms of the OGL being broken, report the matter to the police because it is a wildlife crime and threatens the very existence and continuance of the OGL. However if what you object to is people legally controlling a pest species then I seriously suggest you think long and hard at your own conduct because as far as shooting under the terms of the OGL there is no difference between a goose,a pigeon or a crow.

 

But then I guess this is all about selfishness and greed and not about what is best for the countryside and the environment.

[mudpatten]

You almost accidentally made a valid point there Charlie when you spoke of "witnessing the unlawful killing of a canada."

 

That`s the whole point of this thread. There is now no such thing as "unlawfully killing" a canada.

 

You truly have missed the entire point of this debate.

[CharlieT]

You almost accidentally made a valid point there Charlie when you spoke of "witnessing the unlawful killing of a canada."

 

That`s the whole point of this thread. There is now no such thing as "unlawfully killing" a canada.

 

You truly have missed the entire point of this debate.

 

 

Far from it, the whole crux of the debate started by our friend the birdwatcher stems from his objection to lawful and necessary pest control and his wish to preserve numbers for "wildfowling".

 

As the law states this particular pest may be controlled under the terms of the OGL and some of the posts in this topic criticize the methods and ways in which Canada's are being controlled I suggested that anyone witnessing the breaking of the terms of the OGL should report the matter. Prosecutions have successfully been brought for such transgressions and I am sure can be again. But and it's a big but, someone has to actually break the law and I am sure, just as I suspect you are, that no one actually is.

 

However, as you quite rightly point out, this of course is not what the debate is all about. It's all about a small faction wanting to maintain numbers at ridiculously high unacceptable levels solely for their own pleasure and to hell with the damage, sheer frustration and nuisance these numbers cause to others.

[UKPoacher]

Pest control and sporting shooting shouldn't be mixed up. If you want to be 'sporting' when shooting pests then that's your business. It is not obligatory. That's why the GL states that you can shoot feral pigeons using a lamp. Not sporting, but could be very efficient. Canada geese are a pest where I live as they graze the clover grown for silage. I don't see Brents, Pinkfeet or Greylags on the fields, just Canadas. Dozens of them.

 

I think it wrankles the, ahem , 'sporting' wildfowlers that any Tom, **** or Harry can shoot a goose of any species with his bog-standard 12 gauge and large steel shot and not have to bother with the seasonal and locational hardships that 'sporting' wildfowlers choose to endure.

[Terry P]

Enough of the wildfowler bashing,this is a thread started by one guy who would like to see things changed because he does'nt agree with the present system, he's entitled to his opinion,no where does he claim he wants geese only for wildfowlers or that their elitist. There are 1000's of wildfowlers in the uk and to tar them all with the dribble some have posted is just daft. I don't condem others for doing what i don't,I don't think i'm special or get upset if someone with a bog standard 12b shoots a goose.

Someone said theres no difference between a pigeon a crow and a goose,well there is with the other 2 you have to try other means of detering the pest first,where as with the canada you can just lay into it,perhaps that should be changed.

I do have concerns if a photo of legitimate large scale pestcontrol of geese outside the season gets into the papers,will they report as pestcontrol,we all know how joe public is easily duped by sensational headlines,i'd hate it to have an adverse effect on shooting as a whole when its simply someone doing their job.

[Dave-G]

Enough of the wildfowler bashing,this is a thread started by one guy who would like to see things changed because he does'nt agree with the present system, he's entitled to his opinion,no where does he claim he wants geese only for wildfowlers or that their elitist. There are 1000's of wildfowlers in the uk and to tar them all with the dribble some have posted is just daft. I don't condem others for doing what i don't,I don't think i'm special or get upset if someone with a bog standard 12b shoots a goose.

Someone said theres no difference between a pigeon a crow and a goose,well there is with the other 2 you have to try other means of detering the pest first,where as with the canada you can just lay into it,perhaps that should be changed.

I do have concerns if a photo of legitimate large scale pestcontrol of geese outside the season gets into the papers,will they report as pestcontrol,we all know how joe public is easily duped by sensational headlines,i'd hate it to have an adverse effect on shooting as a whole when its simply someone doing their job.

 

Its what the op wildfowler implied rather than claimed Terry - this sounds elitist to me: "and perhaps more important stop the cowboy shooters who seem to delight in killing breeding geese and their goslings for the hell of it before the news media gets hold of the story and the stop bad reflection that will be cast on all sensible shooters in the publics eye"

 

He brought his entitled opinion to the table and got ours. He has not identified the cowboy shooters so it's fair to assume he means non wildfowlers, that shooting for the hell of it is something that wildfowlers don't do, and that shooting for sport only is more palatable to the media than pest control. Most live quarry shooting puts food on the table but I'm going to hazard a guess there arn't many shooters on this forum that are forced to shoot live quarry but don't want to do it. That leaves the question of how sensible it is, I think I know which live quarry shooting is more sensible and defendable.

 

For the record I admire the balls and tenacity of those who go to such effort to do what I am not fit enough to do, nor can I justify or afford the milage to get to a low tide line.

[mudpatten]

Well said Terry.

 

My main concern, and I`ll express it again, is that certain commentators, one in particular and his disciple and acolyte who, like the first, either has an anti wildfowler agenda or is just plain easily led, have consistently misrepresented the main thrust of this discussion such that otherwise very sensible contributors like UK Poacher, who`s opinion I otherwise hold in very high regard,have jumped on the "fowler bashing" band wagon.

 

Within the world of shooting politics there is very real value to some in prizing wildfowling away from mainstream shooting and misrepresenting its participants - and it is`nt BASC!

 

I`m sure that this post will bring howls of "paranoia", but before you write it off as such, take a look back over this thread and see who has gone out of their way to twist the facts and just wait and see who leads the charge in the next round of anti wildfowler or BASC bashing nonsense.

 

Oh! and if you think you are one of the two people mentioned in the first paragraph, you probably are!

[al4x]

I'm probably one, but the facts don't stack up however you look at it. Canadas aren't in trouble numbers wise, the RSPB are one of the major forces in trying to reduce their numbers. What we have are members saying the OGL doesn't work and is being abused by one and all and that is bad news for all of us.

 

However the proof / evidence is somewhat lacking and its all based on what they imagine is happening rather than what is.

[UKPoacher]

Well said Terry.

 

My main concern, and I`ll express it again, is that certain commentators, one in particular and his disciple and acolyte who, like the first, either has an anti wildfowler agenda or is just plain easily led, have consistently misrepresented the main thrust of this discussion such that otherwise very sensible contributors like UK Poacher, who`s opinion I otherwise hold in very high regard,have jumped on the "fowler bashing" band wagon.

 

Within the world of shooting politics there is very real value to some in prizing wildfowling away from mainstream shooting and misrepresenting its participants - and it is`nt BASC!

 

I`m sure that this post will bring howls of "paranoia", but before you write it off as such, take a look back over this thread and see who has gone out of their way to twist the facts and just wait and see who leads the charge in the next round of anti wildfowler or BASC bashing nonsense.

 

Oh! and if you think you are one of the two people mentioned in the first paragraph, you probably are!

 

At least I'm not one of them as I get a special mention elsewhere

 

I'm sorry that you feel this way, but let me assure you that I have not jumped on any bandwagon. I have held the opinion for a long time that some wildfowlers believe that they and their quarry are above us humble pigeon and rabbit shooters. The tone of some of the posters in this thread reflects this as does the drivel posted by the same people whenever someone mentions killing a goose by means other then crawling for miles through mud and ice at dawn with a gun and cartridge capable of bringing down a helicopter. I have never shot a goose and do not particularly desire to. I sometimes fire a shot to move them off our land and so far that has been enough. However, if our land owner makes representation to have them shot because of the damage they are doing I would have no compunction but to oblige. If that somehow undermines the wildfowlers self-defined estoric status then tough.

 

Oh! And add me to the "I shot a baby rabbit" club. Two hamsters yesterday that won't be digging up the Farm Shop's vegetable plot again.

[Dekers]

Anyone know where the OFF button is?

[The Duncan]

Anyone know where the OFF button is?

AKA 'rusty bullet hole' ?

 

[Dave-G]

Well said Terry.

 

My main concern, and I`ll express it again, is that certain commentators, one in particular and his disciple and acolyte who, like the first, either has an anti wildfowler agenda or is just plain easily led, have consistently misrepresented the main thrust of this discussion such that otherwise very sensible contributors like UK Poacher, who`s opinion I otherwise hold in very high regard,have jumped on the "fowler bashing" band wagon.

 

Within the world of shooting politics there is very real value to some in prizing wildfowling away from mainstream shooting and misrepresenting its participants - and it is`nt BASC!

 

I`m sure that this post will bring howls of "paranoia", but before you write it off as such, take a look back over this thread and see who has gone out of their way to twist the facts and just wait and see who leads the charge in the next round of anti wildfowler or BASC bashing nonsense.

 

Oh! and if you think you are one of the two people mentioned in the first paragraph, you probably are!

 

I hope I'm one of the posters referred to who has felt denegrated by the opening paragraph in this thread on what non wildfowlers do to what comes across as quarry that appears to be the sole right of fowlers to shoot. I have taken issue with the frame of mind of several fowlers over the last few "Canada threads" who seem to think non fowlers are somehow never entitled to shoot them, nor allowed to use a rifle to do it. If you think I'm being led - please look back at my posts in older 'Canada threads.

 

Now I'll admit I'm slightly dyslexic so I don't always put into words exactly what I mean to say or forget to say. So please understand this: I have no ill will towards wildfowlers, what they do, nor how they do it, in fact I admire the efforts they put into their shooting pursuits.

 

What I take very badly and will defend are an attack on the methods used by other people who shoot Canada geese for whatever reason they wish - we all have reasons for doing it. Deeper into this thread there was a phrase to the effect of shooting the head off a goose - and that action would look bad for shooting. Up until then this thread was a fairly moderate exchange of views, though it might have been better if a few smileys were used. It is plain and simple fact to state that a blown off head is more humane than a bird that was sportingly shot at. May I suggest that fowlers get on with their shooting and we get on with ours without putting down the others in ***-for-tat postings that provoke a defensive response.

[CharlieT]

As one of the naughty boys I bid you all good night and sweet dreams, hopefully of skeins of Canada's making their way across the marsh.

 

My stop button has now been pressed.