pigeon-hunter Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) Hi all Ive just taken up pigeon shooting, and ive managed to land permission on a local farm. I was wondering if i have to also obtain permission from the local police even though i have permission from the farmer. Any help on this matter would be great. cheers. Edited April 1, 2011 by pigeon-hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Not for shotguns or airguns. Yes for section 1 firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sco77w Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 No, But there is a system in place where some police forces encourage you to call or send an email to let them know where your shooting to avoid an armed responce unit turning up 'cus some old dear has phoned in saying there's a man in camo gear with a gun close by. Not sure if anyone on here does it? be interesting to find out tho' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Not for shotguns or airguns. Yes for section 1 firearms. Sorry you are wrong on that an open FAC holder can shoot on any land they have the landowners permision and a closed certificate holder can do the same on land previously inspected as "safe" although there is actually no such thing as "safe" land. They do not have to phone to ask if they might go shooting at a certain location and time- it makes no difference what type of gun you have. Personally i have very strong views we should not comply with these requests as we are carrying out a legal activity, as regards sending an ARV then its up to the cops to get there staff trained. The only exeptions to this i might add are in certain high risk of alarm or distress such as next door to an airport, power staition busy road system etc. Furthermore though we should consider our appearance. A guy with a pump action shotgun and a black balaclava, DPM's combat boots etc. shooting pigeons is far easier to mistake for a bad guy than a chap in a flat cap and a tweed jacket and wellies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon-hunter Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks all food for thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) No, But there is a system in place where some police forces encourage you to call or send an email to let them know where your shooting to avoid an armed responce unit turning up 'cus some old dear has phoned in saying there's a man in camo gear with a gun close by. Not sure if anyone on here does it? be interesting to find out tho' I notify the police to inform where I am shooting and they give me an incident number, I then let them no when I have finished, quoting the number, open and close the event. This was subject to a lenghty debate a short while ago, some do, some don't, if you feel you want to, do it, if you don't, don't. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Edited April 1, 2011 by bakerboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Sorry you are wrong on that an open FAC holder can shoot on any land they have the landowners permision and ... The OP stated that he's new to Pigeon shooting so I gave him a correct, simple, answer relevant TO HIM. What you did was add confusion. I'll direct you to the pertinent sections in the law relevant FOR HIS QUESTION if you don't know them. There are always exceptions, if's, buts and maybes. He hasn't asked about voluntary notification either but about land permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 i take it the OP is in Shepperton, Surrey? If you're shooting in most places in the South West where it's highly likely that uneducated members of the public with little knowledge of the countryside are likely to see you, then it's probably wise to log in with the police. All you do is call your local constabularys non-emergency number ( Surrey is 01483 571212 ), and ask to open a vermin control / shooting URN. They'll ask you some details and give you the log number. Easy as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Assume you meant south east, not south west!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 indeed - Cider based geographical relocation to blame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 no mate you will be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
308dave Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Sorry you are wrong on that an open FAC holder can shoot on any land they have the landowners permision and a closed certificate holder can do the same on land previously inspected as "safe" although there is actually no such thing as "safe" land. They do not have to phone to ask if they might go shooting at a certain location and time- it makes no difference what type of gun you have. Personally i have very strong views we should not comply with these requests as we are carrying out a legal activity, as regards sending an ARV then its up to the cops to get there staff trained. The only exeptions to this i might add are in certain high risk of alarm or distress such as next door to an airport, power staition busy road system etc. Furthermore though we should consider our appearance. A guy with a pump action shotgun and a black balaclava, DPM's combat boots etc. shooting pigeons is far easier to mistake for a bad guy than a chap in a flat cap and a tweed jacket and wellies. As an open fac holder what a **** response, it does not hurt or take longer than 2 mins to inform local control room where you are shooting so there is no need for a arv to turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 As an open fac holder what a **** response, it does not hurt or take longer than 2 mins to inform local control room where you are shooting so there is no need for a arv to turn up. From another open fac holder I dont think Kent's response was ****. I have never phoned in to say I am shooting and never will (unless it becomes law) if the police want to come out and check you are legally doing what you are suppose to be doing then so be it. Do you think farmers phone the police every time they take a gun into the field some of them would never be off the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
308dave Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) From another open fac holder I dont think Kent's response was ****. I have never phoned in to say I am shooting and never will (unless it becomes law) if the police want to come out and check you are legally doing what you are suppose to be doing then so be it. Do you think farmers phone the police every time they take a gun into the field some of them would never be off the phone. And so just keep wasting their time and all our money, great attitude.I may be taking this the wrong way so please do excuse me if i am but our local forces like being informed as they dont have to scramble a helo or arv everytime some numpty phones them to say they have seen a man with a gun. Just my veiw. Edited April 2, 2011 by 308dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
308dave Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Also on a positive note a friend of mine has just got his F.A.C opened up because he had phoned while out everytime and could show log numbers for every outing witch the force in question thought it showed he was responsible enough for an open ticket (after just a year) so there can be a benefit to the shooter aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Not for shotguns or airguns. Yes for section 1 firearms. Sorry chap, that is simply not accurate, you have made assumptions without qualifying the response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 And so just keep wasting their time and all our money, great attitude.I may be taking this the wrong way so please do excuse me if i am but our local forces like being informed as they dont have to scramble a helo or arv everytime some numpty phones them to say they have seen a man with a gun. Just my veiw. actually my force does NOT like being informed was told (actual quote) if everyone phoned in we would be snowed under,that said on one farm I shoot I DO call everytime I shoot its close to a housing estate and is prone to trespassers aka dog walkers who think they can do what they want ( no need to pick up fido's droppings from a field) and one daft woman in particular who think's that my mate and myself are "scaring the birds" I kid you not, it has caused us major grief but we still shoot it the rest of our shoots the only people called are the farmers if they like to know who is about, plod is not called routinely if he has a problem he can find out himself. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 And so just keep wasting their time and all our money, great attitude.I may be taking this the wrong way so please do excuse me if i am but our local forces like being informed as they dont have to scramble a helo or arv everytime some numpty phones them to say they have seen a man with a gun. Just my veiw. well perhaps if they used a little bit or grey matter before sending out 5 cars, an ARV and a helicopter to someone shooting on a farm, especially when there was folk also shooting on 3 neighbouring farms at the same time they wouldn't waste quite so much time and money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 And so just keep wasting their time and all our money, great attitude.I may be taking this the wrong way so please do excuse me if i am but our local forces like being informed as they dont have to scramble a helo or arv everytime some numpty phones them to say they have seen a man with a gun. Just my veiw. I am with you on this one mate! My force prefers me to log in with them whenever I go out shooting. At least then if a report goes in to them about someone out with a gun, especially on the lamp, they know from the location if it is me or not. Some might well say that logging in with the local police takes up the time for the police but surely not logging in and the Helicopter and ARV having to investigate a report of "someone out with a gun" takes even more time and money! I have actually had someone call in saying "there was a man out with a rifle in such and such a location and did the police know about it", because I had logged in letting them know I was going to be shooting in that area all they had to do was to call me on my mobile and confirm it was me which saved the possibility of a lot of unessary expence and police time. I personally do not have a problem with letting the police know that I am going out shooting and at least there is a record of how much shooting I have done to go towards my open ticket and will continue to do so! Others might see it differently, but that is my view on the subject! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
308dave Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 I am with you on this one mate! My force prefers me to log in with them whenever I go out shooting. At least then if a report goes in to them about someone out with a gun, especially on the lamp, they know from the location if it is me or not. Some might well say that logging in with the local police takes up the time for the police but surely not logging in and the Helicopter and ARV having to investigate a report of "someone out with a gun" takes even more time and money! I have actually had someone call in saying "there was a man out with a rifle in such and such a location and did the police know about it", because I had logged in letting them know I was going to be shooting in that area all they had to do was to call me on my mobile and confirm it was me which saved the possibility of a lot of unessary expence and police time. I personally do not have a problem with letting the police know that I am going out shooting and at least there is a record of how much shooting I have done to go towards my open ticket and will continue to do so! Others might see it differently, but that is my view on the subject! At last someone sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypig Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Lets get this into perspective. The police have a duty of care to the public and their staff. Is it appropriate to send a single unarmed officer to deal with a report of a man with a gun? I do not care if its you and you are a great bloke and its all a waste of time. Remember the armed officers who speak to you are well trained and experienced. They have done this before! On a daily basis they make decisions which could effect them and their families for a very long time. Attending a simple incident could result in years of scrutiny. Remember they do not get extra money for this. They do this to protect you. I know you are great and have shot rabbits all your life and could probably do so much better with your HMR. Hindsight gives you 20/20 vision. Telling your dog to get off the sofa does not make you proficient at dealing with conflict. Imagine the audacity of the officers asking you for your certificate........ but its your god given right to not carry it with you...... fine then don't complain if you guns are seized. I know there are computers out there and the police are reading our every thoughts.... please take off the tinfoil hats and get with the programme. Why not make life easier for the police and yourself. Carry a copy at least. Redact your address for your own security and pop it in the inside pocket of your shooting jacket. simple. As for a quick call when you are planning on going lamping. Imagine how this will breach your human rights. I have the number for liberty if you would care for it. You can play your part in saving your very hard earned tax pounds in not mobilising the helicopter. Or you could help the police tackle poaching by allowing them to attend the reports of people shooting on your hard earned land when they have not been notified!!!! " billy always tells us so it cant be him..... lets deploy a unit to check" Frenchieboy has the right idea.......... rant over Edited April 2, 2011 by happypig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Lets get this into perspective. The police have a duty of care to the public and their staff. Is it appropriate to send a single unarmed officer to deal with a report of a man with a gun? I do not care if its you and you are a great bloke and its all a waste of time. Remember the armed officers who speak to you are well trained and experienced. They have done this before! On a daily basis they make decisions which could effect them and their families for a very long time. Attending a simple incident could result in years of scrutiny. Remember they do not get extra money for this. They do this to protect you. I know you are great and have shot rabbits all your life and could probably do so much better with your HMR. Hindsight gives you 20/20 vision. Telling your dog to get off the sofa does not make you proficient at dealing with conflict. If you have an open ticket please call your local police and tell them how, with a simple variation you could assist in resolving gun crime. Imagine the audacity of the officers asking you for your certificate........ but its your god given right to not carry it with you...... fine then don't complain if you guns are seized. I know there are computers out there reading our every thoughts.... please take off the tinfoil hats and get with the programme. Why not make life easier for the police and yourself. Carry a copy at least. Redact your address for your own security and pop it in the inside pocket of your shooting jacket. simple. As for a quick call when you are planning on going lamping. Imagine how this will breach your human rights. I have the number for liberty if you would care for it. You can play your part in saving your very hard earned tax pounds in not mobilising the helicopter. Or you could help the police tackle poaching by allowing them to attend the reports of people shooting on your hard earned land when they have not been notified!!!! " billy always tells us so it cant be him..... lets deploy a unit to check" rant over been stopped a few times and in reality it dissproves some of your points, firstly I have been approached by a "beat bobby" not armed response I even asked him why would an unarmed plod attend a so called "gun incident" he smiled shook his head and my hand and I gave him a lift back to his car ( he was knackered from trying to find us) another time I was stopped 2am in the morning this time it was an arv (ford ranger)two plods asked what I was doing one was ok the other was on a power trip,poked his head into the back of my truck, and demanded to know why I had shotgun carts (two boxes of 25) unsecured ie not locked away out of sight( i asked him where this requirement came from? they sodded off after 5 mins I've had the helicopter down middle of a farm pigeon shooting now why would someone be shooting on a farm and in the middle of a field that will be abank robbery then? and Ive been stopped multi times in the early hours coming from or going to shooting, its a hazard of being around at that time of day!! never EVER have I been asked to produce a ticket for my guns, never ever have I been asked for permission slips, not once but nil/ zero zilch never ever have I had to show guns etc BUT I have been asked how I got the rabbit permission at one site along with the comment "so your the lucky ****** that shoots here" :lol: KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Lets get this into perspective. The police have a duty of care to the public and their staff. Is it appropriate to send a single unarmed officer to deal with a report of a man with a gun? The answer to your question is no. Yes, but you missed off some crucial information. Your line should read something like- Is it appropriate to send a single unarmed officer to deal with a report of a man with a gun wandering around fields shooting rabbits / shooting pigeons from a hide? And the answer becomes yes. All it needs is a little common sense from the police, rather than to treat these incidents as training exercises which seems to be the suspicion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 And so just keep wasting their time and all our money, great attitude.I may be taking this the wrong way so please do excuse me if i am but our local forces like being informed as they dont have to scramble a helo or arv everytime some numpty phones them to say they have seen a man with a gun. Just my veiw. Well in the 10years plus that I have been shooting I have NEVER had a helecopter scrambled to approach me even though some of my shooting is done literally 6" from peoples houses. I have also never been reported by some numpty who has seen me with a gun. Also on a positive note a friend of mine has just got his F.A.C opened up because he had phoned while out everytime and could show log numbers for every outing witch the force in question thought it showed he was responsible enough for an open ticket (after just a year) so there can be a benefit to the shooter aswell. Well I got my fac opened up from 17hmr right through to 243 for deer with no extra conditions (ie mentor etc) in 7 months so that just goes to prove the point that phoning in dosent make a bit of difference in my area. If my force didn't think that I was responsible enough Im sure they wouldn't have granted me my sgc/fac in the first place. actually my force does NOT like being informed was told (actual quote) if everyone phoned in we would be snowed under,that said on one farm I shoot I DO call everytime I shoot its close to a housing estate and is prone to trespassers aka dog walkers who think they can do what they want ( no need to pick up fido's droppings from a field) and one daft woman in particular who think's that my mate and myself are "scaring the birds" I kid you not, it has caused us major grief but we still shoot it the rest of our shoots the only people called are the farmers if they like to know who is about, plod is not called routinely if he has a problem he can find out himself. KW Couldn't aggree more Ive asked this question a few times to different offices (mainle beat offices) and they didn't even no people phoned in to say they were going out shooting. well perhaps if they used a little bit or grey matter before sending out 5 cars, an ARV and a helicopter to someone shooting on a farm, especially when there was folk also shooting on 3 neighbouring farms at the same time they wouldn't waste quite so much time and money. Exactly what do they think you are upto in the middle of a farmers field abit common sense wouldn't go a miss. Lets get this into perspective. The police have a duty of care to the public and their staff. Is it appropriate to send a single unarmed officer to deal with a report of a man with a gun? I do not care if its you and you are a great bloke and its all a waste of time. Remember the armed officers who speak to you are well trained and experienced. They have done this before! On a daily basis they make decisions which could effect them and their families for a very long time. Attending a simple incident could result in years of scrutiny. Remember they do not get extra money for this. They do this to protect you. I know you are great and have shot rabbits all your life and could probably do so much better with your HMR. Hindsight gives you 20/20 vision. Telling your dog to get off the sofa does not make you proficient at dealing with conflict. If you have an open ticket please call your local police and tell them how, with a simple variation you could assist in resolving gun crime. Imagine the audacity of the officers asking you for your certificate........ but its your god given right to not carry it with you...... fine then don't complain if you guns are seized. I know there are computers out there and the police are reading our every thoughts.... please take off the tinfoil hats and get with the programme. Why not make life easier for the police and yourself. Carry a copy at least. Redact your address for your own security and pop it in the inside pocket of your shooting jacket. simple. As for a quick call when you are planning on going lamping. Imagine how this will breach your human rights. I have the number for liberty if you would care for it. You can play your part in saving your very hard earned tax pounds in not mobilising the helicopter. Or you could help the police tackle poaching by allowing them to attend the reports of people shooting on your hard earned land when they have not been notified!!!! " billy always tells us so it cant be him..... lets deploy a unit to check" Frenchieboy has the right idea.......... rant over I do get stopped quite regular from the police whilst out shooting. Only once has there been an arv present and that just sat back in the distance letting 2 UNARMED local bobbys pull me over. They had been watching me lamping on the top of one of my farms (couldnt get there with a car so they were about as much use as a chocolate fire guard against poachers anyway) they then let me drive away before pulling me over. Once I showed them my permission slip and fac the arv was called over to check my guns as I quote (officer 1) nice air rifle, well actually it was my 243 so a bit more than an air rifle I would say. After my guns were checked against my fac all was well and off I went to the next farm a half a mile away. They were having a perge in the area for poaching that night orelse the arv wouldn't have even been there. Every other time it has been by either a single or two offices, most of the time a single female officer. Never been a problem so far. If you have an open ticket please call your local police and tell them how, with a simple variation you could assist in resolving gun crime. Wouldn't wast my time replying to this part as its total ****. As for phoning in my phone rarely has reception when Im out shooting so for the police to phone me to check that it was me shooting that area wouldn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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