Frenchieboy Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 The post recently put up by Ste1712 brought a little thought to my mind which I would be interested in hearing others opinions on. It appears that the original FEO that refused to clear the land saw things completely differently to the current FEO that had no hesitation in clearing the land. This could suggest that the original FEO had none or very little practical experience of the use of shotguns or firearms. Would it not be better if all FEOs had some practical experience in the use of firearms rather than just knowing (And sometines misinterpreting) what the book (Home Office "Guidelines") says about it. Surely if they did there would be a better chance of "Common Sense" prevailing rather that having to appeal against some of the (What some of us shooters might see as silly or unreasonable) decisions that "inexperienced" FEOs tend to make from time to time. Any thoughts and opinions guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rascal_2005 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 YES!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 No. Ask any group shooters and they will all come up with a different answer, why should feo's be any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Depends what you mean by "experience", should they be shooters themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 My original FEO was a shooter himself and was very good, he left and was replaced by an armed response firearms officer, the style of administering licences changed drastically, be careful what you wish for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 you are a little between a rock and a hard place the police prefer them not to be members of the shooting community, and to teach them the regs and rules as they go. Simply this makes for less conflicts of interest and less of the mates favours that would otherwise apply. There are exceptions but much like policing itself they will have them working an area away from home usually. They need a certain firearms knowledge but tend to be taught it and follow dept policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 the police prefer them not to be members of the shooting community, and to teach them the regs and rules as they go. That statement applies directly to Durham. A few years ago we had a Wildlife Officer for a FEO, he caused a massive backlog, he ended up re-checking land, & on a big percentage dropped the caliber down that it was passed for. He was took off & replaced with the one who's being in the lime light lately feathering his own nest, who though that his word was wrote in stone, & now a young lad, who by his own admission doesn't know much about the system (only what he's told off Durham), but, is keen to learn, & will listen to your requests. A case of the Blind leading the blind. Before that I think it was anyone that was available, & can honestly say the only one that had any knowledge was a Sergeant, & he was here after Hungerford checking the new rule of having to have cabinets. Should they have experience...Yes, but until the rules governing Firearms are wrote in stone, department policy will reign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 My impression was, the FEO were actually interviewing you to assess your of sound mind and of a good character first ond foremost. Then to ***** your knowledge of your chosen tool and how your going to go about using it. I have had interviews with 4 different FEO's now and each was different, the one that was the biggest pain was the one with the most fire arm knowledge, some of the questions he was asking were verging on the edge of stupidity. He is no longer doing the job. The others were i thought just out for a cup of tea and cake, really freindly chatty and seemed interested as to why i do what i do. It was in fact good interview tactics, allthough at the time i didnt realise it. The last one was round for just under 3 hours, and actually suggested i needed another firearm so swings and roundabouts i think, some are ok while others are a pain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 My impression was, the FEO were actually interviewing you to assess your of sound mind and of a good character first ond foremost. Then to ***** your knowledge of your chosen tool and how your going to go about using it. I have had interviews with 4 different FEO's now and each was different, the one that was the biggest pain was the one with the most fire arm knowledge, some of the questions he was asking were verging on the edge of stupidity. He is no longer doing the job. The others were i thought just out for a cup of tea and cake, really freindly chatty and seemed interested as to why i do what i do. It was in fact good interview tactics, allthough at the time i didnt realise it. The last one was round for just under 3 hours, and actually suggested i needed another firearm so swings and roundabouts i think, some are ok while others are a pain 3 hours :blink: What the heck can take 3 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanH Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 The FEO that came to visit me had been a British Army sniper and then Police sniper for 22 years before becoming an FEO. He was very helpful as he knew I was a beginner, telling me about a few clay grounds near where I live that I wasn't aware of, and checking I knew about safety when out with a gun. Personally I think it is a good idea to have FEO's that shoot, its all very well learning things in theory, but real knowledge, in my opinion, comes with practical experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigeonEater Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 my feo is an idiot and doesnt know f all about anything and constantly has to be corrected, plus i know a few ppl who i shoot with have had the same problems. a mate of mine got his license through once with .22 for fox control... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul87 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 my feo is an idiot and doesnt know f all about anything and constantly has to be corrected, plus i know a few ppl who i shoot with have had the same problems. a mate of mine got his license through once with .22 for fox control... Are you not allowed .22 for fox control in your area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Are you not allowed .22 for fox control in your area? I can't speak for the GMP area but the Lancashire Constabulary (Along with many other constabularies) will not authorise a .22LR for shooting foxes! It appears that different areas have different rulings which is why it is always a big bone of contention about using rimfires for foxes! It's hight time everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet rather than it being a bit of a Post Code Lottery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigeonEater Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 no way, i actually thought it was illegal and a law not just what they fancy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 That statement applies directly to Durham. A few years ago we had a Wildlife Officer for a FEO, he caused a massive backlog, he ended up re-checking land, & on a big percentage dropped the caliber down that it was passed for. He was took off & replaced with the one who's being in the lime light lately feathering his own nest, who though that his word was wrote in stone, & now a young lad, who by his own admission doesn't know much about the system (only what he's told off Durham), but, is keen to learn, & will listen to your requests. A case of the Blind leading the blind. Before that I think it was anyone that was available, & can honestly say the only one that had any knowledge was a Sergeant, & he was here after Hungerford checking the new rule of having to have cabinets. Should they have experience...Yes, but until the rules governing Firearms are wrote in stone, department policy will reign. Durham and Northumbria (as far as i'm aware) have a policy of binning any FEO applications they get from people with FAC/SGC's Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) my feo is an idiot and doesnt know f all about anything and constantly has to be corrected, plus i know a few ppl who i shoot with have had the same problems. a mate of mine got his license through once with .22 for fox control... At sensible ranges and for some applications a .22rf is the preferred tool for the job. Quite legal and justified. Sometimes when we do not know the law and lack experience it is to easy to call the feo an idiot and a fool when it is the shooter who is the idiot for using his rifle outside it's limits. Also remember that the feo is exactly that an enquiry officer, he reports back to the licensing manager and is not responsible for policy nor does he type up your fac. Edited May 12, 2011 by CharlieT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 after all with a shotgun you make the call about a humane kill why not a rifle. Our force seems to think so and are fine with rimfires and foxes. In some situations they are the best tool for the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigeonEater Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Sometimes when we do not know the law and lack experience it is to easy to call the feo an idiot and a fool when it is the shooter who is the idiot for using his rifle outside it's limits. as already stated, GMP wont allow any .22 for shooting foxes, so yes i would be using the rifle within my limits, and the limits set by the law, so how could i be the idiot for using the rifle and calibers as instructed? I also stated it wasnt myself who had this granted but a friend, my view comes from other experiences with feo's, but you jumped the gun (pardon the pun ) and made an assumption Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 read his post again slowly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 as already stated, GMP wont allow any .22 for shooting foxes, so yes i would be using the rifle within my limits, and the limits set by the law, so how could i be the idiot for using the rifle and calibers as instructed? I also stated it wasnt myself who had this granted but a friend, my view comes from other experiences with feo's, but you jumped the gun (pardon the pun ) and made an assumption My dear chap, I chose my words very carefully. It is not my fault you can't read but that of your Alma Mater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 blimey an educated gentleman farmer we'll never believe the claims of poverty again Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 blimey an educated gentleman farmer we'll never believe the claims of poverty again Charlie I'm winding down now to retirement so can't really call myself a proper farmer anymore, just wish everyone else would realise it and stop asking me to work so I can devote my time walking round the parish in my newly acquired tweeds and annoy the surfs at their toil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Sorry to disagree with a number of you but if shooters are EXPECTED to know enough about firearms to shoot safely then I feel FEO's should know enough to adminster the system safely and evenhandedly across force areas. Mentoring is a coming thing and yet the FEO's dont know the capabilities of the arms which they are controlling? You can't assess a persons state of mind easily if you havent had some training. Also what calibres are best used for what purpose etc. Clearing land is the case in point mentioned but there are many instances where the police expect an officer to just do it and do it right. Not an armed response unit though because its very public facing and they would recieve all sorts of critical assessments if something went wrong. Maybe what we need is a shooting 'ombudsman'. BASC seem to pick this function up at our expense, or a solicitor hired at some personal expense to legally question some fairly random decisions. If the licence fee does go up, I hope we will all press for an appeals system based nationally and not on force areas. At the moment, if we dont like what we are given then we ask BASC to help, maybe the police forces would iron out regional differences if they too could be taken to task by an ombudsman for variations in applicaton of the Regs/ACPO advice and be labeled as wrongdoers causing actual harm to a shooters interests or simply guilty of maladministration. To get to that point you will need standardised training for FEO's The sooner the better for me. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Should traffic officers have a driving licence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) this is a hard one to answerbetter the devil you know i think our feo in the lothians is a top bloke (just in case he reads this ) he has been doing it for 20+ plus years and knows every one and all the farms and farmers in our area to the point when i applied for my 222.50 he new the ground better than me almost . every time he calls round you get a call first to get the kettle on and has a good chat (but not 3 hours ) :blink: i think it is more down to experiance with the feo,s some dont have a clue and shouldnt be doing the job and some are good at the job and now whats what .but there again peoples veiws will alwasy be different some feo,s will say grounds safe and thats his view others will say its not .unfortunatly its down to the individual force and its about time it was stream lined. Edited May 12, 2011 by cocker3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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