Dunkield Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Regards administering sedatives to the children it is my understanding that Mrs McCann had the younger children's hair cropped shortly after the incident. And that's part of the problem, now someone will go down the pub tonight and tell his mates he's read she had their hair cropped because she killed her daughter - or something similar. We need to stick to the facts, not what makes a good story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 When Madeline is dead/to old to entertain him, someone else will lose a child to a bloke who has a tried and proven system. Sadly, potentially an accurate summary. The future won't be helped by people as stupid as the McCanns, nor people who think they did absolutely nothing wrong. I think that some posters will claim they would be more careful and vigilant after this affair, but she was not the first child to go missing on holiday. Neither the McCanns nor others seem to learn the harsh lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 The only point I would like to add ... people keep saying the McCanns are suffering everyday of their lives, Well Maddie is the one who has most likely suffered things I cant and dont even want to imagine. Stupid people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 I can't be bothered commenting on most of the holier-than-thou gossip-mongering cak that's being posted on this thread. I've been to loads of events in hotels with normal decent people from all kinds of backgrounds who have put their kids to bed and nipped down for dinner or back to the party. It was commonplace prior to the McCann case, though not anymore and people have a selective memory about it. How likely is it that: Parents would accidentally kill their child and then decide to dispose of the body Parents would find their child dead and then decide to dispose of the body Both parents would agree to dispose of their dead childs body One parent would do it and successfully hide it from the other One could dispose of a body unseen forever in a holiday resort in a foreign country A group of parents would cover up the killing of one of their friends children If you kill someone and hide the body, you make a fuss and draw attention to the case for years Neither parent would crack All of these things are being suggested as plausible. To me, not much of that seems reasonable at all and those willing to accept it are doing so based on a dislike of the McCanns for reasons of class or because they come across as unlikeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 I just want to add a thought to the previous comment I made. The last few TV interviews we have seen of the McNanns they have been cradling the book that has been written about the case. I don't know about others but I see this as a pretty low form of gaining publicity and capitalising on the demise of their unfortunate daughter unless the money raised from the book sales is ALL going directly to the continuing hunt for little Maddie - If not then this sort of behavious is in extermely poor taste! I would welcome others views on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 I can't be bothered commenting on most of the holier-than-thou gossip-mongering cak that's being posted on this thread. I've been to loads of events in hotels with normal decent people from all kinds of backgrounds who have put their kids to bed and nipped down for dinner or back to the party. It was commonplace prior to the McCann case, though not anymore and people have a selective memory about it. How likely is it that: Parents would accidentally kill their child and then decide to dispose of the body Parents would find their child dead and then decide to dispose of the body Both parents would agree to dispose of their dead childs body One parent would do it and successfully hide it from the other One could dispose of a body unseen forever in a holiday resort in a foreign country A group of parents would cover up the killing of one of their friends children If you kill someone and hide the body, you make a fuss and draw attention to the case for years Neither parent would crack All of these things are being suggested as plausible. To me, not much of that seems reasonable at all and those willing to accept it are doing so based on a dislike of the McCanns for reasons of class or because they come across as unlikeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) I just want to add a thought to the previous comment I made. The last few TV interviews we have seen of the McNanns they have been cradling the book that has been written about the case. I don't know about others but I see this as a pretty low form of gaining publicity and capitalising on the demise of their unfortunate daughter unless the money raised from the book sales is ALL going directly to the continuing hunt for little Maddie - If not then this sort of behavious is in extermely poor taste! I would welcome others views on this! The fund is exactly for that to continue the hunt for their daughter. There is a real conspiracy theory with this. It is an unusual set of circumstances and a one in a million chance that a child would be abducted in this way. It does not mean it did not happen and it was them! The investigation would always have looked inwards to the family and outwards. It is normal practice. It is a line of equiry that needs to be discounted. It was and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. As for forensics showing blood in the room etc etc. It is a room of multi occupancy and will be littered with traces from previous occupants likely to not be associated in any way with the Mcanns. The evidence as opposed to assumption (a dangerous game) points to her being abducted from the room on the night in question. Until proved otherwise that is what happened and the hunt to find her alive should continue and she not be forgotten. The chances are sadly she is dead but there may be a slim chance she is not. Who can blame the parents for holding onto that hope. Edited May 14, 2011 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Fair comment Dibs! If the money for the book were to be used for anything other than continuing the search for Maddie then I am sure that many would have seen it as capitalising on a tradgedy which (In my opinion) would be morrally wrong! With regards to the rest of your post, I have to agree. All I am saying is that some things that have been said just don't ring quite true to me! Having said that I agree that we should be very careful not to condemn anyone until we know all of the facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 she was not the first child to go missing on holiday. How many British kids have been snatched on holiday over the last 10 years? (Just 2 that I know of) How many British kids have been taken on holiday over the last 10 years? (10's of millions ?) Do you let your kids cross the street on their own? Nial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houseplant Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 The McCanns made a mistake and are paying dearly for it - I really don't understand why people wish them ill. Perhaps, if they were less middle class, less well educated, less composed, less articulate and less driven to do everything that they can to get their daughter back they would receive more sympathy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) The McCanns made a mistake and are paying dearly for it - I really don't understand why people wish them ill. Perhaps, if they were less middle class, less well educated, less composed, less articulate and less driven to do everything that they can to get their daughter back they would receive more sympathy? They made a decision not a mistake, a mistake is an unitentional act, rather than a normal routine of leaving your kids alone while you go socializing, as for their "paying" I would suggest its maddie who has paid or is still paying, as for the parents I hope their guilt (thats all it is)never eases. KW Edited May 14, 2011 by kdubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houseplant Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 They made a decision not a mistake, a mistake is an unitentional act I don't think it matters, but a quick google search gives this definition of mistake - "An error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness". I think that fits. I would suggest its maddie who has paid or is still paying No doubt, but the parents are suffering too. I hope their guilt (thats all it is)never eases We'll just have to agree to disagree here, I think that's extremely harsh, but you are entitled to you opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 They made a decision not a mistake, a mistake is an unitentional act, rather than a normal routine of leaving your kids alone while you go socializing, as for their "paying" I would suggest its maddie who has paid or is still paying, as for the parents I hope their guilt (thats all it is)never eases. KW Wow, that's one hell of a tough/harsh statement (Guilt thats all it is) - If they are guilty of killing their kid then I would imagine guilt would come a distant second to fear/paranoia/loathing/panic etc etc If they are guilty of nothing more than stupidity/unlucky that they decided to be a bit reckless and leave their kids alone whilst going for a meal, I couldn't begin to imagine the crushing, devastating pain they must go through on a daily basis. I managed to lose my eldest when I picked her up from school one day - She disappeared out of sight to run and tell a friend something whilst in the playground. I lost sight of her for maybe less than a minute. In that time it felt like my world was falling apart and the absolute panic and fear was mind numbing. That was for less than a minute until she appeared again from around the corner. 4 years of that, no thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Wow, that's one hell of a tough/harsh statement (Guilt thats all it is) - If they are guilty of killing their kid then I would imagine guilt would come a distant second to fear/paranoia/loathing/panic etc etc I have never suggested they killed her others have I have not If they are guilty of nothing more than stupidity/unlucky that they decided to be a bit reckless and leave their kids alone whilst going for a meal, I couldn't begin to imagine the crushing, devastating pain they must go through on a daily basis. they are not stupid they are according to some "professionals" they were not simply unlucky they gambled and lost gambled on a kid not a poker chip, you can be as reckless as you like with money or possessions but to do it with a kid? come on give us a break. I managed to lose my eldest when I picked her up from school one day - She disappeared out of sight to run and tell a friend something whilst in the playground. I lost sight of her for maybe less than a minute. In that time it felt like my world was falling apart and the absolute panic and fear was mind numbing. That was for less than a minute until she appeared again from around the corner. 4 years of that, no thanks My wife and I have brought 7 kids up 6 girls 1 boy all were allowed freedom of their own but we KNEW where they where who they where with and what they where doing, never ever once did we leave them to go swanning off ( unless we had a responsible babby sitter)I have no sympathy for the McCann's, they were not unintelligent people caught up in circumstance they were reckless selfish oafs, who either cost a kid her life or condemned her to god knows what, KW Edited May 14, 2011 by kdubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Nial - based upon your logic, you would ignore the plight of Maddie and in future would do as the McCanns did. The odds are in your favour. I would not gamble with a child's life. The McCanns did and seem to have some support - astonishingly. You accept that you know of only one other as well as Maddie. Does this somehow lessen what the McCanns did. They did not learn any lesson from Ben Needham, nor did you. kdubya - for the second time - well done - I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Nial - based upon your logic, you would ignore the plight of Maddie and in future would do as the McCanns did. What I'm trying to point out that statistically you're being more reckless with your kids taking them out in the car than doing what they did. I would not gamble with a child's life. You do, every time you go out driving. You accept that you know of only one other as well as Maddie. Does this somehow lessen what the McCanns did. They did not learn any lesson from Ben Needham, nor did you. Are you going to stop taking your kids out in the car, stop them swimming etc? Nial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Nial - straight question. Knowing what you now know, would you do the same as the McCanns - go for a meal / drinks - and leave the kids in an apartment, out of your sight, alone and in a foreign country? If you would not - I rest my case. If you would - you are incredibly stupid. As for gambling with my kids every time I drive - please - come up with a cogent argument rather than this stupidity. I assume you don't drive for fear of knocking someone over. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 What about doing 71 mph with kids in the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Nial - straight question. Knowing what you now know, would you do the same as the McCanns - go for a meal / drinks - and leave the kids in an apartment, out of your sight, alone and in a foreign country? If you would not - I rest my case. If you would - you are incredibly stupid. What happened to Madelein McCann doesn't change the odds of something happening. You don't seem to be able to separate emotion and logic. As for gambling with my kids every time I drive - please - come up with a cogent argument rather than this stupidity. I assume you don't drive for fear of knocking someone over. Of course not, I think it's worth the risk. Do you think Madeleine McCann was more likely to... 1) Be kidnapped on holiday 2) Be killed in a car accident Given that 2) is statistically correct why aren't you jumping down the throat of every parent who takes their child in the car? Nial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 the way Bazzer tells it it sound like she was given knock out drops. She WAS!!!! Mrs Mcann, who is a dr I believe admitted on telly in an interview early on that she had given her phenagan, which is a drug we use to sedate kids pre-operatively....thats not speculation or conspiracy theory......I saw the interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 As I said, I dont feel sorry for them, its all brought on by themselves!!! Children that age should NEVER be left unattended even if you are only so many metres away What if one of them had a rigours, or aspirated thier own vomit or simply woke uip frightened....no-one around...despicable. My wife and I did everything with our kids at our sides....if we couldnt we got a baby sitter (My mum, when she was alive) and if we couldnt get a baby sitter....we didnt go out...ITS THAT SIMPLE!!! I can unequivacally say that niether myself or my wife has EVER left the kids unattended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) OK then for those who find comprehension difficult here are a few definitions MISTAKE An error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness. a misconception or misunderstanding. RISK Risk is the potential that a chosen action or activity (including the choice of inaction) will lead to a loss (an undesirable outcome). ACCIDENT An accident is a specific, unpredictable, unusual and unintended external action which occurs in a particular time and place, with no apparent and deliberate cause but with marked effects. NEGLIGENCE The failure to use reasonable care. The doing of something which a reasonably prudent person would not do, or the failure to do something which a reasonably prudent person would do under like circumstances. A departure from what an ordinary reasonable member of the community would do in the same community. now which one does the plight of poor Maddie come under ( want some more clues) KW Edited May 14, 2011 by kdubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Nope, no evidence of the kids being sedated, and no mention of the supposed admission by Kate McCann on the telly program you think you saw. Nadda. Nothing. See Dunkield's post above. This is an interesting read: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/sep/12/comment.ukcrime All this the McCanns were bad parents stuff - alright lets say they were 100%. Where does that get anyone? There's a kidnapper and murderer out there still.... very little mention of that on these pages, just blame for the McCanns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 OK then for those who find comprehension difficult here are a few definitions RISK Risk is the potential that a chosen action or activity (including the choice of inaction) will lead to a loss (an undesirable outcome). ACCIDENT An accident is a specific, unpredictable, unusual and unintended external action which occurs in a particular time and place, with no apparent and deliberate cause but with marked effects. NEGLIGENCE The failure to use reasonable care. The doing of something which a reasonably prudent person would not do, or the failure to do something which a reasonably prudent person would do under like circumstances. A departure from what an ordinary reasonable member of the community would do in the same community. now which one does the plight of poor Maddie come under ( want some more clues) KW Got it in one.... all said and done they took a terrible risk that there could have been a serious accident as a result of their negligence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 It's all getting a bit boring now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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