Ferretboy111 Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Hello all, I currently have had my cz american for 5 years now, its shot alot but its not exactly smooth to shoot and is pretty basic. Ive just come into some money after selling my truck so am thinking about buying a new one, dont mind spending over a grand. What do we reckon is an awesome rifle? Ive been looking at the Ruger 77/17, Sako quad, Anshutz 1517.... any other ideas comments welcome. Cheers guys Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Impossible...and what do you want to do with it? A HMR is not a traditional target tool so I assume field work! This has been round and round before, you may as well ask everyone to chose a girlfriend for you, it will always be theirs! Why do people buy different cars and why do they paint their walls different colours, because they want to! If you are intent on spending money simply go and handle as many as you can, and see what you like best, there is nothing to talk about accuracy wise between any of them! ATB! Edited May 14, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 14" weihrauch hw60j. or the hw66 if you can work with a heavy rifle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Anshutz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferretboy111 Posted May 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Sorry forgot to mention, im a full time game keeper so will be using it to shoot rabbits, foxes, crows etc. Looking for quality, similar to when I upgraded from a Hawke to a leupold... the difference is well worth the money. Cheers Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_in_the_midlands Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) If it is your job, and want it for foxes, and have money burning a hole in your pocket, why not go up to a centrefire? Edit: Just - read the bottom of your post - I see you already have one...... How about a .17 centrefire then? Edited May 14, 2011 by ian_in_the_midlands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Sorry forgot to mention, im a full time game keeper so will be using it to shoot rabbits, foxes, crows etc. Looking for quality, similar to when I upgraded from a Hawke to a leupold... the difference is well worth the money.Cheers Alex Sorry but I don't follow that one..... and your...•Cz 527 american .223, is that a problem too? Just which bit of a change from a CZ, to any you mention, do you feel will bring you a result "well worth the money"? Don't you hit things with the CZ and doesn't it work? I've never heard of anyone trading a CZ because it wasn't accurate, just what do you want/expect in a rifle? Edited May 14, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 My CZ hmr I bought second hand - it already having the barrel chopped, trigger kit and mod. I would just get another one - job jobbed. Lovely tool. I also have about 4 of the 10 shot mags and realise that if I bought another brand, then I would end up with the hidden cost of buying extra magazines (which are all rip off money). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 The fella has come into some money and wants to treat himself to something special, is that a problem ? It might not shoot any better than his CZ but if it looks nicer and feels nicer then it's money well spent to him. Shotguns are the perfect example of lots more money for no significant improvement in function, but we still dribble over the latest top Browning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5shooter Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Persomally I wouldnt spend a grand on an hmr. Money will be better spent on a .17 fireball. If you reload youre rounds will be similar in price and youre accuracy will be far better plus you will extend youre effective rsnge by as much again. Just my 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Sorry forgot to mention, im a full time game keeper so will be using it to shoot rabbits, foxes, crows etc. Looking for quality, similar to when I upgraded from a Hawke to a leupold... the difference is well worth the money. Cheers Alex Sorry but I don't follow that one..... and your...•Cz 527 american .223, is that a problem too? Just which bit of a change from a CZ, to any you mention, do you feel will bring you a result "well worth the money"? Don't you hit things with the CZ and doesn't it work? I've never heard of anyone trading a CZ because it wasn't accurate, just what do you want/expect in a rifle? The fella has come into some money and wants to treat himself to something special, is that a problem ? It might not shoot any better than his CZ but if it looks nicer and feels nicer then it's money well spent to him. Shotguns are the perfect example of lots more money for no significant improvement in function, but we still dribble over the latest top Browning. Catweazle, I think you are misinterpreting my comments, the OP quoted Hawke to Leupold and then said...the difference is well worth the money. It may well be, you would expect the Leupold to be better glass, hold it's zero better, dial in better, be better at distance and generally more reliable and a better quality product making it BETTER in various practical ways over a cheaper scope. I am struggling to understand how that equates to rifles as he quotes....."Looking for quality, similar to when I upgraded from a Hawke to a leupold... the difference is well worth the money".....seeing as any of the mentioned rifles will be no more accurate, not shoot any further and not be any more reliable.... in simple terms have no practical advantage! And Like I said, apparently there is no desire at this stage to move the CZ American .223 which by implication is another inferior product! There is likely to be NO practical advantage of spending more money on the HMR, so we go back to my original respone... Impossible...and what do you want to do with it? A HMR is not a traditional target tool so I assume field work! This has been round and round before, you may as well ask everyone to chose a girlfriend for you, it will always be theirs! Why do people buy different cars and why do they paint their walls different colours, because they want to! If you are intent on spending money simply go and handle as many as you can, and see what you like best, there is nothing to talk about accuracy wise between any of them! ATB! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Sorry forgot to mention, im a full time game keeper so will be using it to shoot rabbits, foxes, crows etc. Looking for quality, similar to when I upgraded from a Hawke to a leupold... the difference is well worth the money. Cheers Alex your looking at the wrong calibre gun mate. For crows specifically its pretty much a flop the little 17 grain v-max pill will break up to easy contact with a folded wing will do so much damage to the bullet that it will rarely penetrate enough to kill. presision placed shots fine, but thats hard as its just so windy for example 5mph full value wind will take you off the bird aiming for a centre mass frontal shot at only 100 yds. 20 grn will zip through bird goes down the gets up and flies to fall out of the sky much later (normally in inconvienient places) Fox - many areas don't allow it, but put it this way i should be more confident with a std .22 lr slug in the right place. Rabbits its ok provided you remember just how windy it is, though you can take two identically placed shots one it will ruin the other you will struggle to find entry and exit. i am going to sell mine and go .22 Hornet accuracy wise with easy or nil value winds it's a realy neat tool is the hmr (but we just don't get many days like that here)and killing power can be summed up with the single word "unpredictable" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Alex, what ever you do get with your extra cash, I hope you enjoy it. I have a CZ 455 HMR and love it. I find it very good for crows and Rabbits and it is easy enough to make wind allowances. Edited May 14, 2011 by Blunderbust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Stick with the HMR for crows and rabbits it's spot on and I'm sure (if suitably licensed) pretty hot for not too rangey foxes. HMR ammo is priced in pennies, CF ammo is priced in pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_in_the_midlands Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 What make of bullets are you using and what range are you shooting at Kent? I have never had problems with penetration, but have had problems with rabbits and magpies at long range (150yards) when the bullets have not expanded properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crieffy Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Buy my one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 What make of bullets are you using and what range are you shooting at Kent? I have never had problems with penetration, but have had problems with rabbits and magpies at long range (150yards) when the bullets have not expanded properly. I have used the 17's and the 20's ( 20's over penetrate at most ranges 17's are too frangible until they turn into basic penetrators) on crows i doubt i have shot one less than 80 yds but up to 150- 160 i guess as usual it hard to get real close to them i have pushed it a bit early days but now if it looks more than 150 ish it gets left ( i have shot a lot of them over 100 a year easy ). Listen as a pro gun for killing crows its naff for the ocasional opertunistic shot its ok. As regards wind it is only marginally better than .22 subs at 100 yds when your talking major correction at 150yds and a 5mph wind i say thats a hard gun to shoot, coz 5mph gusts can just come and your looking at a good 4" correction on that wind at just 5mph. like i say ok if its the odd shot but as a pro-gun when you have a job to do and theres a 15mph wind blowing - useless. ok so ocasional shooters can choose thier day - but you say your a pro keeper so how often will you bother with it in your area? what its realy good for is stalking bunnies on those windless days when its hard to get close enough for the .22. 150 yds aim at the top of the shoulder with a 100yds zero and pop one dead bunny. does that make it a serious keepers tool? not in my mind. As for fox, i dont so can't speak from direct experiance on that - however i have hit hares in the head missing the brain and failed to get as good a kill as you might expect from the energy level. Again shot placement being perfect it will kill most things but its hard to achieve that on opertunistic shots on less than perfect days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrocks Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Impossible...and what do you want to do with it? A HMR is not a traditional target tool so I assume field work! This has been round and round before, you may as well ask everyone to chose a girlfriend for you, it will always be theirs! Why do people buy different cars and why do they paint their walls different colours, because they want to! If you are intent on spending money simply go and handle as many as you can, and see what you like best, there is nothing to talk about accuracy wise between any of them! ATB! 10/10 for least helpful post this week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 I have an Anschutz 1517 with thumb hole stock. Its fitted with a Leuplod VX scope. If the rifle has a handicap its the 4 shot magazine. I have two magazines, and if I shot the rifle more, I would invest in a third. I think that there was a post on PW some weeks ago for a larger capacity magazine. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Is the cz playing up>? if not why change it? I recently played with a browning t bolt, very nice , small and very light, used anschutz, very heavy and Personally i would by the cz over it any day of the week, i have also used a sako quad....which I also think is ok but way over priced and too many niggly little things wrong on delivery for me. if it aint broke.....why fix it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrocks Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) i've only just bought a T-bolt, and rate it very highly. First rifle i've been really happy taking a standing shot with. I swapped from a CZ and must say it's a big difference, quicker bolt cycle, lighter, better looking and (it feels) better made. I'm 6' 2'' ish though, and will need to get butt spacers, so be aware that it comes from the factory with only a thin buttplate, i don't know why. With the money you're alluding to I would get either a HW60j or a Sako Quad, with a definate preference for the former, heavy though. Edited May 15, 2011 by Horrocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 10/10 for least helpful post this week Thats the norm, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 What make of bullets are you using and what range are you shooting at Kent? I have never had problems with penetration, but have had problems with rabbits and magpies at long range (150yards) when the bullets have not expanded properly. he is justifying getting a hornet to himself, like you we don't have bullet proof crows down here and the 17g vmax seems to work out to any range you can hit them. Personally if I was looking to spend a fair bit on an HMR it would be the Annie purely as something to use that will last you and you will always enjoy using it. In a keepers job where the ammo gets paid for they are a cracking tool, my local keeper does about 2000 rounds a year through his on general vermin and makes an easy gun to carry on the quad. All that said I've had a CZ for 6 or so years and faultless in that time and will be staying so really there is the question of if what you have works why change it. Money is usually better spent on the glass to go on top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 he is justifying getting a hornet to himself, like you we don't have bullet proof crows down here and the 17g vmax seems to work out to any range you can hit them. Personally if I was looking to spend a fair bit on an HMR it would be the Annie purely as something to use that will last you and you will always enjoy using it. In a keepers job where the ammo gets paid for they are a cracking tool, my local keeper does about 2000 rounds a year through his on general vermin and makes an easy gun to carry on the quad. All that said I've had a CZ for 6 or so years and faultless in that time and will be staying so really there is the question of if what you have works why change it. Money is usually better spent on the glass to go on top actually my thoughts on the 17hmr are being echoed by quite a few now and the hornet is getting a renewed intrest. i don't keep records but me and a mate were doing some rough reconing up and guessed i had done at least 100 crows last nesting time alone just out of my bedroom window with it, there are a lot fewer crows about now as this was only a fraction of those taken. FYI the reason i want to go hornet is the "unpredictable" terminal effects but also its very windy here and many times it just aint worth taking it out as you only gonna be taking .22 lr range shots hornet gives half the 100 yds windage of the hmr and has real choice in bullet heads. IF we saw as much choice in 17 ammo as .22 there might be some good stuff as it is we get what the yanks want to use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimmie Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I would go for either a browning t-bolt or an anchutz the sako quad in "varmint" style is a loverly gun it has a really nice dark walnut stock and heavy barrel great gun.but the anchutz 1717 is a fantastic gun straight from the box it has a trigger like a target rifle and is nice looking.hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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