955i Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Just had a letter informing me that a company I did £3K of work for has gone into voluntary insolvency I have just paid out all my subs on the job so now looks like I am going to be right in it cos of this. I see me cancelling Christmas this year!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 can you claim from their business insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 can you claim from their business insurance? No idea!! I am a sole trader and have never come accross anything like this before so don't really have any idea how it all works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Mungler may be able to offer some info but I was under the impression you could claim under their insurance policy. You could try a PM to Mungler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 What work did you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 What work did you do? It was a series of bat surveys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) Ah ok, so nothing "tangible" you could recover. They will appoint a administrator at some point who will work they way down to pay off there debts through assets. If they can cover them all? Have they stopped trading do you know? Edited October 14, 2011 by M.I.A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Ah ok, so nothing "tangible" you could recover. They will appoint a administrator at some point who will work they way down to pay off there debts through assets. If they can cover them all? Have they stopped trading do you know? They have appointed an administrator, but looking at the list of creditors I don't think I am likely to get a look in Wouldn't mind, but they commissioned the work only a couple of weeks before I got the letter, so they must have known it was going to happen. The end client however is not them, it is Carillion who are massive, so I am wondering whether I could claim it from them as the report is theoretically for them anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcmt Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 i would definately get in touch with carillion. i have heard of main contractors taking on commitments to sub sub contractors if thats the right way to put it. especially in the case of information along the lines that you had provided them, which could for instance delay a planning application etc.. Good Luck anyway, tempers are running high where i am at the mo, working for a small main contractor, everyone is still being paid but the work is all but dried up come the end of november! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Paulie Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Ok, Couple of points here - 1) Have you considered just turning up on their doorstep and not leaving without your money? I am assuming that your 30 day terms or whatever have expired or you could waive them in the circumstances. 2) Appoint a debt collection company, or failing that, start collecting hard yourself. I.e. start making phonecalls and writing letters. 3) I have found that he who shouts loudest can often do best out of this. 4) The administrators have to determine how best to break up the companies assets in order to clear the debt. If you are making a constant nuisance of yourself and claiming poverty (that non-payment might put you out of business) Then there is a chance they may pay you in full! 5) Does the company have any assets that may be of use to you? Could you do a bit of amateur bailifing? 6)I toally agree with 'ashcmt' get in touch with Carillion, but ONLY if you can absolutely confirm that the survey work you did is for them. I assume that Carillion are constructing a power line or something of that sort? I hope some of this is of some small use. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 6)I toally agree with 'ashcmt' get in touch with Carillion, but ONLY if you can absolutely confirm that the survey work you did is for them. I assume that Carillion are constructing a power line or something of that sort? I hope some of this is of some small use. P Thanks, the work is rebuilding of part of a school so even if Carillion doesn't work, the end user is the school and they may be another possibility. Company don't have anything I need as I have chairs, a desk and a computer so no real chance of bailiffing it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Assume that Carillion issued a PO or work order to get the surveys done?. Is this shown as a reference on any paperwork?. Tax crowd get first dibs as creditors normally but if Carillion will not pay, a subtle hint about bad press may help. but only as a very last resort. It's the sort of story a paper would love, cuddly bats etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Copyright in the survey reports may assist...do your terms & conditions say anything about your work remaining your property until paid for in full ? Carillion may not be able to use the report without your permission. I presume that they need to send it to a local planning authority somewhere. As the author of the report, you have rights... Also if the Directors of the company can be shown to have known it was trading insolvent then they might cop personal liability but that is a hard bitter fight which you'd need to sponsor the liquidator to bring - more appropriate for hundreds of thousands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Ok, Couple of points here - 1) Have you considered just turning up on their doorstep and not leaving without your money? I am assuming that your 30 day terms or whatever have expired or you could waive them in the circumstances. 2) Appoint a debt collection company, or failing that, start collecting hard yourself. I.e. start making phonecalls and writing letters. 3) I have found that he who shouts loudest can often do best out of this. 4) The administrators have to determine how best to break up the companies assets in order to clear the debt. If you are making a constant nuisance of yourself and claiming poverty (that non-payment might put you out of business) Then there is a chance they may pay you in full! 5) Does the company have any assets that may be of use to you? Could you do a bit of amateur bailifing? 6)I toally agree with 'ashcmt' get in touch with Carillion, but ONLY if you can absolutely confirm that the survey work you did is for them. I assume that Carillion are constructing a power line or something of that sort? I hope some of this is of some small use. P I'm pretty sure almost everything you have suggested there would be deemed as illegal in the eyes of the courts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Good luck trying to get money out of Carillion. They give their own subbies a bad enough time by withholding payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I'm pretty sure almost everything you have suggested there would be deemed as illegal in the eyes of the courts! Completely rarely do you read such rubbish on here. Simple facts are you will get nothing from that company once the administrators take their funds. You'll see the reports over time and it will **** you off who gets paid and how much while you get nothing. You are best off speaking to carillion and voicing your displeasure and trying to push the report can't be used till paid for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 They have appointed an administrator, but looking at the list of creditors I don't think I am likely to get a look in Wouldn't mind, but they commissioned the work only a couple of weeks before I got the letter, so they must have known it was going to happen. The end client however is not them, it is Carillion who are massive, so I am wondering whether I could claim it from them as the report is theoretically for them anyway? Not a hope - some of the biggest sharks going - often find ways of not paying legitimate and documented claims from direct sub contractors, so as a sub sub I would sy waste of time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Completely rarely do you read such rubbish on here. Simple facts are you will get nothing from that company once the administrators take their funds. You'll see the reports over time and it will **** you off who gets paid and how much while you get nothing. You are best off speaking to carillion and voicing your displeasure and trying to push the report can't be used till paid for I'm sorry Alex but only point 6 on that list WOULDN't constitute as harrasment of the directors or of the administrator... Amateur balifing... just a tad illegal, turning up on the doorstep and refusing to leave... obstruction at best, harrasment at worst. If it is a limited company, which I'm guessing it is as the administrators are in, the directors have no personal liability... go after them and you will probably find yourself in court.. You will be at the end of a long queue at the front of which will be the administrators themselves followed by the Revenue... if there's anything left after they've had their bit it will be divvied up in order of importance as far as the administrators see it. Unless they have a lot of stock/assets or property to liquidise there is little hope of there being anything left after the Revenue have finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Carillion are, in it's simplest form a facilities company. If they asked/employed another company to do some work for them, and that company went tits up before paying yet another company for their services, then Carillion will have nothing to do with it, why should they! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maidment78 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 This will all boil down to paper trails, check the purchase order they gave you, who owns the report? If they sent you a copy of their terms with the order stating that the work belongs to them prior to payment and you did not reply then they have you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Copyright in the survey reports may assist...do your terms & conditions say anything about your work remaining your property until paid for in full ? Carillion may not be able to use the report without your permission. I presume that they need to send it to a local planning authority somewhere. As the author of the report, you have rights... Also if the Directors of the company can be shown to have known it was trading insolvent then they might cop personal liability but that is a hard bitter fight which you'd need to sponsor the liquidator to bring - more appropriate for hundreds of thousands... What he said. Forget getting paid by the administrator or liquidator. It ain't going to happen. This isn't advice, but I suspect that if you write to the main contractor and tell them your report is withdrawn due to non payment of your invoice and as a result they must not disseminate or take any reliance from it's contents and that you will be writing to whatever bat or planning authority is in charge iin 14 days unless a resolution is reached.... Then whatever agreement was or was not in place between you and the popped company is likely to be on the same bonfire as that company's last VAT return and details of the Directors loan account. Carillon won't know one way or the other in any event but they will need to use your report to tick a box somewhere. Incidentally, bat relocation report? Ah mate that is the gayest and most pointless "thing" I have ever heard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowdy Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 We just got a bat report for a house alteration £700 to tell us that we had bats ***. As for Carillion what shower of **** they turn over there own staff when it comes to money and are well known for it in the trade and when they do pay it takes many months!! good luck anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I'm sorry Alex but only point 6 on that list WOULDN't constitute as harrasment of the directors or of the administrator... Amateur balifing... just a tad illegal, turning up on the doorstep and refusing to leave... obstruction at best, harrasment at worst. If it is a limited company, which I'm guessing it is as the administrators are in, the directors have no personal liability... go after them and you will probably find yourself in court.. I was agreeing with you harrasment won't work anyway the doors will be shut and the phones being answered by whatever company bought the assets. Its all legal totally wrong but the way it works. I've had some corkers over the years twice companies wanted to keep using us after going bust on us owing money. One did us for 15K the new company opened in the premesis the next day all the same faces and then wanted us to do more work 3 months later. In the end we did but it was only with cash up front and the job sure wasn't done at our usual prices. Another did it to us and then called wanting a quote on a job should have been £25 or so but the girl got the hump when I said it would be £1525 and would need to be paid up front. Apparently I couldn't ask them to pay the old debt, she didn't like the reply Munglers advice is spot on create as much agro as possible and you never know they may well pay if they need the report enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I was agreeing with you harrasment won't work anyway the doors will be shut and the phones being answered by whatever company bought the assets. Its all legal totally wrong but the way it works. I've had some corkers over the years twice companies wanted to keep using us after going bust on us owing money. One did us for 15K the new company opened in the premesis the next day all the same faces and then wanted us to do more work 3 months later. In the end we did but it was only with cash up front and the job sure wasn't done at our usual prices. Another did it to us and then called wanting a quote on a job should have been £25 or so but the girl got the hump when I said it would be £1525 and would need to be paid up front. Apparently I couldn't ask them to pay the old debt, she didn't like the reply Munglers advice is spot on create as much agro as possible and you never know they may well pay if they need the report enough Sorry.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 the correct advice has been already given. your report will be required to discharge a planning condition. whilst you can withdraw the right to use the report the planning department may have already accepted it. the owner of the development will most likely pay to avoid any trouble with the local auority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.