Vermincinerator Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 al4x, i dont posess a .22LR but have a .22WMR, which is IMO still not suitable for all out fox control but is more then adequate should the need arise to despatch charley under certain circumstances. I do say in my post that because of this i am asking to have the condition re-instated Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I don't think anyone looks at rimmies as foxing tools but they are very useful in certain circumstances. Thats why most forces won't condition them for fox and fall back on a vermin classification. In my opinion lots of these feo's don't really know what they are talking about, ignore guidance when they fancy it so we can show a similar opinion of ignorance. It would be a very foolish one to revoke a ticket over foxes not being vermin, then you have the biggest shooting organisation saying go for it. Other than on here i've never known anyone pass up a fox as they didn't have them listed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) We seem to have lost sight of the fact on this thread that it may be the Local FAO deems the land unsuitable for the extended range of the .17HMR the fact of whether it can take a Fox out is completely irrelevent. I had an open certificate until recently which I didnt renew but even on that one piece of land of some 1200 acres was restricted to .22 LR because after the FAO inspected it it was apparent that it was used regularly by walkers even though the footways brought them nowwhere near to the main shooting areas. If the FAO says you cant have a .17 HMR for this particular piece of land then you are stuffed and they dont have to give you any other reason than that. Like I said in another post sometimes you have to learn to walk before you can run and I would be tempted to apply for .22 LR forget the foxes, get some experience and then vary in a year or so's time for a proper fox round like the .22-250 Rem. I certainly wouldnt antagonise the FAO if he doesnt agree to the .17hmr. Personally I am rather old school and opine that the .17hmr is a brilliant tool for shooting rabbits at range but unsuitable for foxes unless you are Vassili Zaitsev... Edited November 24, 2011 by Fisherman Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 nice to see the home office advisor getting his relentless post count up yet again, my force wont allow HMR for fox end of, they don't class fox as vermin end of, they condition fox on your ticket for suitable calibre's end of, so please could all you really big gonad owners ( orchitis? get to the docs )then please pop along to my FLD and tell them they are all talking carp, or is what you print here and what you do in reality a scene from Pinocchio? many thanks KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) What are the guidelines on shooting trolls? Someone please tell me. Try looking in the mirror you might see one. Did no one not tell you that trolls like fairies are fictional. Ask your FEO for a variation on your FAC for shooting trolls see how you get on. Edited November 24, 2011 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 We seem to have lost sight of the fact on this thread that it may be the Local FAO deems the land unsuitable for the extended range of the .17HMR the fact of whether it can take a Fox out is completely irrelevent. I think the problem is that we have a few people who would most likely be as quiet as a mouse in the pub where they'd get a kicking if they talked like they do here, but when sat behind a keyboard all hell breaks loose! Half of them have forgotten what the subject is about and prefer to bitch at each other over differences in opinion which may not even matter. At the end of the day just shoot the bloody Fox and keep quiet, then nobody has anything to moan about. We really do need a yawn smiley! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I think the problem is that we have a few people who would most likely be as quiet as a mouse in the pub where they'd get a kicking if they talked like they do here, but when sat behind a keyboard all hell breaks loose! Half of them have forgotten what the subject is about and prefer to bitch at each other over differences in opinion which may not even matter. At the end of the day just shoot the bloody Fox and keep quiet, then nobody has anything to moan about. We really do need a yawn smiley! Will this one do ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) It seams that each force interprets the guidelines definitely. So it depends where you live what firearm and caliber you can get. The shooting organizations and shooters them selves have the attitude keep your head down dont challenge the police if their interpretation of the guidelines is wrong. You can see the way gun control in the UK has went in the last few years how well that has worked. Perhaps if the shooting community in the UK where as vocal as the anti gun lobby things would improve. If your car pasted the mot in one center and failed in another because they interpreted the guidelines differently i am sure most would challenge the decision but when it comes to firearms few challenge a decision. Edited November 24, 2011 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 At the end of the day just shoot the bloody Fox and keep quiet, then nobody has anything to moan about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I had Fox on my HMR conditions...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) Apart from the HO guidance quotes regarding vermin and fox being separate entities as previously mentioned by various posters, a quick look at the HO Guidance, appendix 3 (conditions), makes it plainly obvious that fox, in this context, is not included in the term vermin. I copy.............. 1. Quarry Shooting (for vermin, fox or deer) The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/ SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall be used for shooting vermin and ground game/fox/deer (delete as appropriate) and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. (The words in italics may be omitted once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence. There is no set time for this and each case should be considered on its individual merits.) Edited November 24, 2011 by CharlieT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Charlie - the home office guidelines are utterly irrelevant when talking conditions on an FAC, in terms of whether you breach them, that is. The word vermin is not defined on the ticket and the guidelines are not referenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat-Cap Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 If his FEO is the same as mine,then he's an ex policeman. Alan Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Same here. The point I was trying to make is, the FEO (most likely) in question is a stickler for the quidelines,and most likely WILL NOT allow .17HMR for fox, vermin,yes.that's what the OP was asking,was it not? I've had many 'conversations'with him,he's fair,BUT, does stick to his guns(pardon the pun) Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 The point I was trying to make is, the FEO (most likely) in question is a stickler for the quidelines,and most likely WILL NOT allow .17HMR for fox, vermin,yes.that's what the OP was asking,was it not? I've had many 'conversations'with him,he's fair,BUT, does stick to his guns(pardon the pun) Alan As an addition to my post, the previous FEO that was in this area,would NOT allow .17HMR for fox,instead offering a .22Hornet C/F,this he did with three of my friends on FIRST application. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baconbuttie Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I'm in Gloucestershire too, just had my ticket in for a variation. Like redgum, I had fox on my HMR and it's now gone. I've emailed to ask why it's gone, and if it's been overlooked I've offered to bring my ticket in and for them to swap. No response as yet (2 days), so think I'll be ringing them shortly as I'm supposed to be out tonight. If they refuse to condition the HMR for fox I'll ask for .22CF and this time I'll stand firm. Never wanted a HMR, FEO was happy for me to have a Hornet but the FLD manager said "no". This time around I'll be asking for a 22-250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Several posts have been removed from this thread, it appears to be going nowhere so to save any more unnecessary admin intervention it can now be put to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baconbuttie Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Following on from my post to the earlier (now locked) thread about .17HMR and fox control, I've been told by Gloucestershire FLD that it's no longer considered suitable for the job, something I suggested when they refused my .22CF in favour of a HMR. It's a very recent change as my FEO wasn't aware of it. He's recommended I pop a 1-for-1 variation in (a week after I got my FAC back after last variation) and ask for a .22CF on the grounds that I need the right tool for the job. He also said that he's been recommending a HMR for short-range fox control for 5 years, there may well be some work for him to do on renewal of FACs. In principle I don't object to the change, but I wish they could have called me before taking it off. I never wanted a HMR in the first place either. (Dunkield gave me the OK to post this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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