unapalomablanca Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Its an referendum on Scottish independence I'm looking forward to, if that passes we need never have another general election, the Conservative Reich will last a thousand years if we lose all those reds. What and you think that camerons a tory? He is only marginally more a tory than clarke. Its conservative by name but liberalism by nature. Remember this is the man who had a wind turbine on his roof and told us we should all 'hug a hoodie'. And dont forget the 'i will get immigration down to tens of thousands'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 The ''big man'' (a fireman) Mr Pollock, a performance manager at finance firm BlackRock in Edinburgh Not a Fireman at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Not a Fireman at all. dont know like,but some firemen are part time so could be that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Not a Fireman at all. EX performance manager you mean! :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I don't think ANYONE has defended him here have they? It's the actions of the 'Big Guy' that are in question as far as I can see, with most on here apparently all in favour of, zero tollerence, summary judgements and vigilante action... Irespective of whether or not you think this guy is a local 'hero' or not and whether the kid did anything wrong or not... he asaulted that kid. Do you REALLY want a world that bypasses the authorities and acts as it sees fit Well **** dude maybe I shouldnt of helped the elderly lady up last week who fell over and smacked her face of the ground while it was pouring down with rain because I aint got the certification in handling old people. Would you want your kids to hear what that boy was saying if they were sitting next to him? I wouldnt. Maybe the gobby teen should of been done for Swearing in a public place. Soft soft people in this country and the youngens know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Well **** dude maybe I shouldnt of helped the elderly lady up last week who fell over and smacked her face of the ground while it was pouring down with rain because I aint got the certification in handling old people. Would you want your kids to hear what that boy was saying if they were sitting next to him? I wouldnt. Maybe the gobby teen should of been done for Swearing in a public place. Soft soft people in this country and the youngens know it. dead right country is now full of hide your head under the pillow and see nowt,hear nowt merchants, gobby youth got his just reward it really is that simple, but I bet the claims merchants are already on the case for him. KW Edited December 14, 2011 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 bfg,the only sensible thing you said there was that he should or could be done for swearing,the rest was just plain daft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 dead right country is now full of hide your head under the pillow and see nowt,hear nowt merchants, gobby youth got his just reward it really is that simple, but I bet the claims merchants are already on the case for him. KW :yes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 :yes: Chimp.. If I'm right you have served your time working 'security' in clubs and stuff? If someone in a nightclub got a bit tipsy and started mouthing off and another customer decided to take it upon themselves to 'drag' siad person to the front door and then quite violently throw him to the ground ('cos that's what happened here!) are you telling me you would pat customer on his back and say... well done mate... you go and enjoy the rest of your evening!.... Er... No... you wouldn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 A good demonstration of ''use of reasonable force'' Surely reasonable force is if you're defending yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Eye for an eye, they should all have got refunds on their tickets :lol: . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Well **** dude maybe I shouldnt of helped the elderly lady up last week who fell over and smacked her face of the ground while it was pouring down with rain because I aint got the certification in handling old people. Would you want your kids to hear what that boy was saying if they were sitting next to him? I wouldnt. Maybe the gobby teen should of been done for Swearing in a public place. Soft soft people in this country and the youngens know it. BFG, could you actually present a coherent argument? Swearing and fare dodging are the only two things to charge him with. The "Big Man" on the other hand will probably be worse off. Is that a perversion of justice? Probably but there is only one person responsible for that and it isn't the scrote. No I'm not defending the scrote but he should be subject to due process. If the law finds him guilty great, however it's not for a passer by to be judge and jury. If you or I break the law we expect a fair hearing to explain our side of the story. You don't expect mob rule. How ironic is it that those defending the Big Man (who acted illegally) are berating the scrote for being a lawbreaker. Edited December 14, 2011 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 BFG, could you actually present a coherent argument? Swearing and fare dodging are the only two things to charge him with. The "Big Man" on the other hand will probably be worse off. Is that a perversion of justice? Probably but there is only one person responsible for that and it isn't the scrote. No I'm not defending the scrote but he should be subject to due process. If the law finds him guilty great, however it's not for a passer by to be judge and jury. If you or I break the law we expect a fair hearing to explain our side of the story. You don't expect mob rule. How ironic is it that those defending the Big Man (who acted illegally) are berating the scrote for being a lawbreaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 dead right country is now full of hide your head under the pillow and see nowt,hear nowt merchants, gobby youth got his just reward it really is that simple, but I bet the claims merchants are already on the case for him. KW Maybe,but i would bet a months wages theres gonna be a lot more people willing to help out the big chap and i dont mean with Monster Munch either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) How do you do that over the middle of the Atlantic for instance? Very difficult to offload over the Atlantic (however tempting I imagine) but most companies will have a policy and probably restraints. The Air Navigation Order 2005 states that all passengers must obey the lawful commands of the Commander. Therefore the Commander can request help from passengers and that includes the use of "reasonable force" to restrain a passenger. So in the case of a violent passenger restraining him and then helping put him into restraints is probably reasonable. However restraining him and then kicking him in the head is no longer reasonable. There was a case in the USA where passengers kicked a violent passenger to death. A tad excessive. Edited December 14, 2011 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 unless you are acting in self defence or protecting others from harm. As defined in Sec 3 of the Criminal Law Act which I posted earlier you can also use force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime. so it isn't only to protect yourself and others from harm. Without this in the definition you'd not be able to do a thing if someone threw a brick through your car window for example. You CAN do something, you can give chase, detain and use reasonable force to keep them there and to defend yourself. It's a piece of legislation that everyone should know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 As defined in Sec 3 of the Criminal Law Act which I posted earlier you can also use force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime. so it isn't only to protect yourself and others from harm. Without this in the definition you'd not be able to do a thing if someone threw a brick through your car window for example. You CAN do something, you can give chase, detain and use reasonable force to keep them there and to defend yourself. It's a piece of legislation that everyone should know. prevention being key word,crime had allready been commited,so no need to join in,police should have been informed and let them do the job their payed to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) As defined in Sec 3 of the Criminal Law Act which I posted earlier you can also use force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime. so it isn't only to protect yourself and others from harm. Without this in the definition you'd not be able to do a thing if someone threw a brick through your car window for example. You CAN do something, you can give chase, detain and use reasonable force to keep them there and to defend yourself. It's a piece of legislation that everyone should know. Thanks for that, good to know. So in the case on the train they should've detained him rather than throwing him off the train, in effect by throwing him off they were letting an alledged criminal go Edited December 14, 2011 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Yes, the young lad was totally in the wrong. We think he had not purchased a ticket, he was swearing and he did threaten to sit where he was and not leave the train. However he was not in any way attempting to physically harm anyone. The BIG MAN on the other hand made the situation worse by getting involved by picking the young lad up, from his chair, indeed the young lad was not even facing the BIG MAN. I too would struggle if someone grabbed me in such a manner. The BIG MAN by doing this caused them to fall over and could quite easily have injured a third party. The young lad was then man handled out of the train and on attempting to get back in was thrown to the ground which as has been stated on numerous post could have caused serious injury. The BIG MAN will now be waiting on the Police banging on his door and I have no doubt will be charged with assault. Some of you think that he has done a good thing but I bet right now, he is not thinking that himself. The other sad thing about the whole video clip is that everyone and there dog will know who he is and where he comes from. If this young lad is all that he has been depicted as on this thread by some, then one never knows what could end up happening especially in the gang type culture that goes on. This film has given the young lad all the evidence he needs to try and take the situation into the claims system. I am sure that he will be contacted by a fair number of claims specific solicitors who will be more than willing to represent him. The sad fact is that in a few months time his heinous crime of failing to purchase a ticket and swearing on public transport will have been long forgotten. Unfortunately the assault that the BIG MAN has made on a young lad will not. I am all for helping others when physical harm is being handed out, but I fear this was a very stupid act on the BIG MANS behalf. Edited December 14, 2011 by Blunderbust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I think this can be put to bed now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) prevention being key word,crime had allready been commited,so no need to join in,police should have been informed and let them do the job their payed to do The young man was becoming more aggressive/verbally abusive, he should have just goten off the train after the first time he was asked to. Kicking him off prevented the situation from escalating and causing alarm and distress to others on the train. Would anyone just stand and watch, calling the police, as an old granny was being mugged :blink: you cant prevent it so best not join in, besides, we're not paid to get involved Edited December 14, 2011 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Chimp.. If I'm right you have served your time working 'security' in clubs and stuff? If someone in a nightclub got a bit tipsy and started mouthing off and another customer decided to take it upon themselves to 'drag' siad person to the front door and then quite violently throw him to the ground ('cos that's what happened here!) are you telling me you would pat customer on his back and say... well done mate... you go and enjoy the rest of your evening!.... Er... No... you wouldn't If a door man was trying to eject someone from a pub and a member of the public helped. . . . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Would anyone just stand and watch, calling the police, as an old granny was being mugged :blink: you cant prevent it so best not join in, besides, we're not paid to get involved SLIGHTLY different to a tipsy teenager refusing to do what someone is telling him to do and having a tantrum :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 not only was he holding up the train he was on he was holding up the whole network sling him off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Thanks for that, good to know. So in the case on the train they should've detained him rather than throwing him off the train, in effect by throwing him off they were letting an alledged criminal go Haha, looking at this incident objectively I think 'big man' was doing fine right up to the point the lad tried to get back on. I think he did use force reasonable in the circumstances IF the lad was still swearing/being aggressive ect. Where it goes wrong is the throw onto the platform, if that throw really did cause those injuries then in the nicest possible way 'big man' is ****ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.